Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
They have made the offense more Hare friendly. If you can't see that, you're not paying attention. They've eliminated their best play from last season because Hare can't run it.
We've also seen nothing that says Maddie is a terrible passer. At all.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 11:50 AM by 7.)
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
(10-09-2014 11:50 AM)7 Wrote: They have made the offense more Hare friendly. If you can't see that, you're not paying attention. They've eliminated their best play from last season because Hare can't run it.
We've also seen nothing that says Maddie is a terrible passer. At all.
Cough cough throw into double coverage last week cough cough.
(10-08-2014 09:05 AM)klake87 Wrote: If Hare's passing does not improve dramatically, I would rather have Maddie running the show. We could go back to the spread and Let Maddie put pressure on defense to defend against him running. This could open up the passing game because they have to commit more defenders to the run. Right now, Hare scares no one running the ball
So Maddie puts pressure on the defense running the ball?
Hare(42car/207yds) and Maddie(28car/136yds) have the same average ypc 4.9. Sure Hare looks awkward doing it but the results are the same..
Huge difference is 8:0 and 0:1... TD:INT ratio...THROWING.... Hare has 8TDs and NO INTS.... Maddie has 0 TDs and 1 INT...
Either way Carey has to pick 1 qb and go with him the rest of the way..
No he doesn't...
Turnovers are about the same since Hare had the fumble against Arkansas.
He also fumbled against NW...and who was it at QB in the UNLV game that messed up the hand-off which causes a fumble? I don't remember if it was Hare or Maddie?
It had to be Hare, because I think Maddie only played 1 series against UNLV and they scored that drive.
(10-08-2014 09:05 AM)klake87 Wrote: If Hare's passing does not improve dramatically, I would rather have Maddie running the show. We could go back to the spread and Let Maddie put pressure on defense to defend against him running. This could open up the passing game because they have to commit more defenders to the run. Right now, Hare scares no one running the ball
So Maddie puts pressure on the defense running the ball?
Hare(42car/207yds) and Maddie(28car/136yds) have the same average ypc 4.9. Sure Hare looks awkward doing it but the results are the same..
Huge difference is 8:0 and 0:1... TD:INT ratio...THROWING.... Hare has 8TDs and NO INTS.... Maddie has 0 TDs and 1 INT...
Either way Carey has to pick 1 qb and go with him the rest of the way..
Harnish averaged 7.1 YPC his senior year. Lynch averaged 5.5 that year. Was anybody sitting here saying Harnish was a better runner than Lynch? Or even on par? Of course not.
Just look at the plays the coaching staff calls. Has there been one pure QB run play called for Hare this year? No. It's all been read option or him improvising on pass plays.
As for Hare not throwing a pick this year. Totally valid argument if you think he should keep playing. He's taken care of the ball better than anyone could have expected as a first time starter.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 12:03 PM by 7.)
(10-09-2014 11:50 AM)7 Wrote: They have made the offense more Hare friendly. If you can't see that, you're not paying attention. They've eliminated their best play from last season because Hare can't run it.
We've also seen nothing that says Maddie is a terrible passer. At all.
Cough cough throw into double coverage last week cough cough.
Oh that was a terrible decision, but that doesn't make him a terrible passer. Hare's missed at least 5 wide open WRs running for TDs this year. Does that make him a terrible passer? No. Also, I have no doubt if you put NIU in 3rd and 7 plus situations with Maddie as a QB they would struggle. Not sure that's all that different from Lynch either, though.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 12:01 PM by 7.)
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
(10-09-2014 11:50 AM)7 Wrote: They have made the offense more Hare friendly. If you can't see that, you're not paying attention. They've eliminated their best play from last season because Hare can't run it.
We've also seen nothing that says Maddie is a terrible passer. At all.
7, I appreciate the video analysis you did in the other thread.
Here's my biggest concern with Maddie throwing and would like your opinion.
One of our "staple" plays has been the "bubble" screen/quick sideline throw. Part of it's importance is to loosen the defense from "stacking the box". I want to say this play worked well to get us down the field on our few scoring drives vs ARK.
When Maddie makes this throw it just seems to take FOREVER for the ball to get there and thus a bread & butter play for us is difficult to execute as the defense is there before the ball gets there.
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
I couldn't disagree more. Maddie's deep ball is much better. Hare's missed a number of wide open WRs on deep balls.
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
I couldn't disagree more. Maddie's deep ball is much better. Hare's missed a number of wide open WRs on deep balls.
It seems like Hare misses people deep all the time. Or at least that's what I feel like every time I hear "he misses a wide open daron brown". I unno
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
I couldn't disagree more. Maddie's deep ball is much better. Hare's missed a number of wide open WRs on deep balls.
Its back to the Grady comparison though, Grady could throw the long ball with the ridiculous arc and hang time, Maddie can make that throw too, but that's about the only throw Maddie can make.
(10-09-2014 11:55 AM)17Huskies Wrote: "I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
I couldn't disagree more. Maddie's deep ball is much better. Hare's missed a number of wide open WRs on deep balls.
Its back to the Grady comparison though, Grady could throw the long ball with the ridiculous arc and hang time, Maddie can make that throw too, but that's about the only throw Maddie can make.
Except, no.
We really don't know what Maddie can do throwing. You can't say he can't throw though. Nothing we've seen has shown he can't throw.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 12:27 PM by 7.)
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
I just watched the highlights for Kent State on Huskie all access. Maddie threw a perfect 30 yard pass to Brescacin down the sideline and he caught it in stride. And Brown dropped a perfect 20 yard pass over the middle from Maddie. Brown ended up running it in a few plays later for their first td. I don't remember the play you mention about Brescacin. I don't know why you and MD say he can only throw a slant pass.
I honestly don't think we've seen enough of either guy to say definitively how well they pass. They've both flashed a bit and both underwhelmed. I was leaning Hare 'til last week then leaning Maddie 'til that atrocious pick. I know nothing.
Maybe my memory is cynical, but both are clearly better than Grady. He was so bad.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2014 12:31 PM by The Frisky Biscuit.)
(10-09-2014 11:47 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Ive really boiled this down to Hare overall is more talented than Maddie, I don't think that's even debatable. Maybe Maddie is more like Lynch was in terms of skill sets, but he isn't nearly the runner, and I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is. I feel that hustlebelt article is pretty accurate that Carey should have tweaked things to make the offense more Hare-friendly. Right now this is just one hot mess because NIU has no idea what it wants to do offensively. The opportunity to have some sense of order to this thing was missed in summer ball. We are in the mess because of the seduction of Jordan Lynch. Unfortunately Lynch's don't come along all that often, and I wish Carey would have realized earlier that Maddie is not Lynch. Having said this, I think next year you might have a candidate in Root that can run a somewhat similar offense and be ok.
"I don't think it can be overstated just how poor of a passer Maddie is."
Please provide your evidence...
His INT was a terrible decision...not really a terrible throw.
+1. Poor decisions doesn't mean poor passer. He has made some really nice throws, some on the move and some from the pocket, in the limited chances he has been given.
He has a weaker arm. In his two long passes against kent, was a 13 yard slant, but the deep pass was floated and it was just a great place by Brescasin that allowed it. he can throw those quick passes, but he doesn't have the deep ball.
I just watched the highlights for Kent State on Huskie all access. Maddie threw a perfect 30 yard pass to Brescacin down the sideline and he caught it in stride. And Brown dropped a perfect 20 yard pass over the middle from Maddie. Brown ended up running it in a few plays later for their first td. I don't remember the play you mention about Brescacin. I don't know why you and MD say he can only throw a slant pass.
If maddie is a dead on deep ball thrower, can hit the quick pass, and can run like the wind like this board says he can....why is he holding a clipboard?
