(09-18-2014 01:41 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:23 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Here's one for you. You do know who the Democratics "libertarian" party is? It's the Green party (and to a lesser extent the Communist USA party). But then go look at who those Green Party supporters put their votes behind when an election comes up. It's not the Green party, they'll vote Democratic, because there's enough similarities between the two, and then they push to try to get the Democrats to see along their lines.

The presidential election results do not back this up. 2012 was the first time that there were more votes for conservative-aligned third parties since at least 2000 (as far as I went back).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2004
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2012

I was referring to overall all elections, jh.. in particular Congressional. We know there weren't enough 3rd party voters in the 2000-2012 elections, hell, there weren't even Republican registered voters who actually voted to affect 2012 or 2008.

(09-18-2014 01:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:33 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, Okie, you are simultaneously telling libertarians to stop trying to change the republican party and also complaining because libertarians don't vote republican?

Here's the deal. You want our vote, fine, change. You don't want to change, fine, do without our vote.

You run under GOP tickets. You pretend you are an arm of the GOP. You show up at CPAC. Yet you claim to be your own party.

That's because we are trying to change you. When you refuse to change, we don't vote for you. What part of that can you not comprehend?

If you change, then we will vote for you. If not, we won't. If we thought we could change the democrats, that's whom we would be trying to change. As long as the choice is a GWB clone against an Obama clone, we are all f-d no matter who wins.

Really? So you're f*cked with a president that actually puts effort into his work vs one that vacations on his lazy ass all day?

(09-18-2014 01:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:33 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, Okie, you are simultaneously telling libertarians to stop trying to change the republican party and also complaining because libertarians don't vote republican?
Here's the deal. You want our vote, fine, change. You don't want to change, fine, do without our vote.

You run under GOP tickets. You pretend you are an arm of the GOP. You show up at CPAC. Yet you claim to be your own party.

That's because we are trying to change you. When you refuse to change, we don't vote for you. What part of that can you not comprehend?
If you change, then we will vote for you. If not, we won't. If we thought we could change the democrats, that's whom we would be trying to change. As long as the choice is a GWB clone against an Obama clone, we are all f-d no matter who wins.

Right, you are trying to change the GOP to be more in line with Democrats.
Vote for who you wish, but it is not your place to change us when you can't win an election on your own platform.

Fine, then you have no basis to complain when we don't vote for you.

Actually, we want the GOP to be more in line with democrats on social issues and LESS in line with democrats (and current republicans, for that matter) on fiscal issues. You keep conveniently ignoring that last part.

(09-18-2014 01:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:33 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, Okie, you are simultaneously telling libertarians to stop trying to change the republican party and also complaining because libertarians don't vote republican?
Here's the deal. You want our vote, fine, change. You don't want to change, fine, do without our vote.

You run under GOP tickets. You pretend you are an arm of the GOP. You show up at CPAC. Yet you claim to be your own party.

That's because we are trying to change you. When you refuse to change, we don't vote for you. What part of that can you not comprehend?
If you change, then we will vote for you. If not, we won't. If we thought we could change the democrats, that's whom we would be trying to change. As long as the choice is a GWB clone against an Obama clone, we are all f-d no matter who wins.

Right, you are trying to change the GOP to be more in line with Democrats.
Vote for who you wish, but it is not your place to change us when you can't win an election on your own platform.

Fine, then you have no basis to complain when we don't vote for you.

Don't run on our ticket. Our platform built a national party. Your platform gets about 4.3% of the electorate.

(09-18-2014 01:55 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Don't run on our ticket. Our platform built a national party. Your platform gets about 4.3% of the electorate.

Fine, then don't complain when that platform can't win a national election because we won't vote for it.

(09-18-2014 01:41 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:23 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Here's one for you. You do know who the Democratics "libertarian" party is? It's the Green party (and to a lesser extent the Communist USA party). But then go look at who those Green Party supporters put their votes behind when an election comes up. It's not the Green party, they'll vote Democratic, because there's enough similarities between the two, and then they push to try to get the Democrats to see along their lines.

The presidential election results do not back this up. 2012 was the first time that there were more votes for conservative-aligned third parties since at least 2000 (as far as I went back).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2004
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_2012

yeah in 2012 the green party took enough of the liberal vote in my hometown to make it a pretty close rate between the Dem & Republican. otherwise the dem would have won in a landslide.

That's true, Libertarians shouldn't be running off the Republican Party shirttail. Create your own separate party and live or die from it and not by taking votes away from the Reps because Libertarians are not liked by Moderates that will vote Dim because of this.

(09-18-2014 01:23 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Here's one for you. You do know who the Democratics "libertarian" party is? It's the Green party (and to a lesser extent the Communist USA party). But then go look at who those Green Party supporters put their votes behind when an election comes up. It's not the Green party, they'll vote Democratic, because there's enough similarities between the two, and then they push to try to get the Democrats to see along their lines.

But here's the big difference. Right now on the libertarian/republican side, there aren't enough similarities. Libertarians are socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Republicans are neither. They're socially conservative and fiscally only slightly less liberal than democrats.

When GWB was running for president, he said he was going to cut the size of the federal government and get us out of the nation-building business. That's a libertarian message.

What he actually did was to grow the federal government faster than any previous president, run up the budget deficits larger than anyone prior to Obama, get us into two now-failed nation-building efforts, and infringe the hell out of constitutional liberties. That's not a libertarian message.

So no, they're not the same.

(09-18-2014 02:14 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:23 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Here's one for you. You do know who the Democratics "libertarian" party is? It's the Green party (and to a lesser extent the Communist USA party). But then go look at who those Green Party supporters put their votes behind when an election comes up. It's not the Green party, they'll vote Democratic, because there's enough similarities between the two, and then they push to try to get the Democrats to see along their lines.

But here's the big difference. Right now on the libertarian/republican side, there aren't enough similarities. Libertarians are socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Republicans are neither. They're socially conservative and fiscally only slightly less liberal than democrats.

When GWB was running for president, he said he was going to cut the size of the federal government and get us out of the nation-building business. That's a libertarian message.

What he actually did was to grow the federal government faster than any previous president, run up the budget deficits larger than anyone prior to Obama, get us into two now-failed nation-building efforts, and infringe the hell out of constitutional liberties. That's not a libertarian message.

So no, they're not the same.

applause

(09-18-2014 02:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That's true, Libertarians shouldn't be running off the Republican Party shirttail. Create your own separate party and live or die from it and not by taking votes away from the Reps because Libertarians are not liked by Moderates that will vote Dim because of this.

You realize that this thread is about a Republican whining about libertarians voting for Libertarians instead of Republicans, right?

(09-18-2014 02:18 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That's true, Libertarians shouldn't be running off the Republican Party shirttail. Create your own separate party and live or die from it and not by taking votes away from the Reps because Libertarians are not liked by Moderates that will vote Dim because of this.

You realize that this thread is about a Republican whining about libertarians voting for Libertarians instead of Republicans, right?

No, the thread is about the Libertarians bashing the Republican party so they can attract some of their voters.

So, Okie, your message is, "We're not going to change to accommodate your views, so why don't you vote for us?"

Umm, I can think of a reason.

(09-18-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:18 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That's true, Libertarians shouldn't be running off the Republican Party shirttail. Create your own separate party and live or die from it and not by taking votes away from the Reps because Libertarians are not liked by Moderates that will vote Dim because of this.

You realize that this thread is about a Republican whining about libertarians voting for Libertarians instead of Republicans, right?

No, the thread is about the Libertarians bashing the Republican party so they can attract some of their voters.

Only the thread in your head is about that. In the real world, this thread is about Ms. Coulter's concern that people voting for Libertarian candidates will allow the Democrats to retain control of the Senate.

(09-18-2014 01:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:33 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, Okie, you are simultaneously telling libertarians to stop trying to change the republican party and also complaining because libertarians don't vote republican?

Here's the deal. You want our vote, fine, change. You don't want to change, fine, do without our vote.

You run under GOP tickets. You pretend you are an arm of the GOP. You show up at CPAC. Yet you claim to be your own party.

That's because we are trying to change you. When you refuse to change, we don't vote for you. What part of that can you not comprehend?

If you change, then we will vote for you. If not, we won't. If we thought we could change the democrats, that's whom we would be trying to change. As long as the choice is a GWB clone against an Obama clone, we are all f-d no matter who wins.

Right, you are trying to change the GOP to be more in line with Democrats.

Vote for who you wish, but it is not your place to change us when you can't win an election on your own platform.

you should join the club. we totally don't get along with liberals but we aren't angry at the things we don't understand. it's like focusing your hatred on one particular part of the spectrum and not giving a f*ck about the rest. i imagine less hatred is healthy. it's like loading your gun and shooting it too!

(09-18-2014 02:29 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:18 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That's true, Libertarians shouldn't be running off the Republican Party shirttail. Create your own separate party and live or die from it and not by taking votes away from the Reps because Libertarians are not liked by Moderates that will vote Dim because of this.

You realize that this thread is about a Republican whining about libertarians voting for Libertarians instead of Republicans, right?

No, the thread is about the Libertarians bashing the Republican party so they can attract some of their voters.

Only the thread in your head is about that. In the real world, this thread is about Ms. Coulter's concern that people voting for Libertarian candidates will allow the Democrats to retain control of the Senate.

Pal, those "libertarian" candidates are running under GOP tickets.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

(09-18-2014 02:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:29 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:18 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That's true, Libertarians shouldn't be running off the Republican Party shirttail. Create your own separate party and live or die from it and not by taking votes away from the Reps because Libertarians are not liked by Moderates that will vote Dim because of this.

You realize that this thread is about a Republican whining about libertarians voting for Libertarians instead of Republicans, right?

No, the thread is about the Libertarians bashing the Republican party so they can attract some of their voters.

Only the thread in your head is about that. In the real world, this thread is about Ms. Coulter's concern that people voting for Libertarian candidates will allow the Democrats to retain control of the Senate.

Pal, those "libertarian" candidates are running under GOP tickets.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Because it doesn't make any sense.

(09-18-2014 02:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, Okie, your message is, "We're not going to change to accommodate your views, so why don't you vote for us?"

Umm, I can think of a reason.

That's right. We aren't turning into a socially liberal party because you have an identity crisis. Sorry. Do you just expect social conservatives to just go by the waste side?

(09-18-2014 02:42 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:29 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:18 PM)jh Wrote:  You realize that this thread is about a Republican whining about libertarians voting for Libertarians instead of Republicans, right?

No, the thread is about the Libertarians bashing the Republican party so they can attract some of their voters.

Only the thread in your head is about that. In the real world, this thread is about Ms. Coulter's concern that people voting for Libertarian candidates will allow the Democrats to retain control of the Senate.

Pal, those "libertarian" candidates are running under GOP tickets.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Because it doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does. You are your own party. Create your own ticket.

(09-18-2014 02:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:42 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:29 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  No, the thread is about the Libertarians bashing the Republican party so they can attract some of their voters.

Only the thread in your head is about that. In the real world, this thread is about Ms. Coulter's concern that people voting for Libertarian candidates will allow the Democrats to retain control of the Senate.

Pal, those "libertarian" candidates are running under GOP tickets.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Because it doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does. You are your own party. Create your own ticket.

What does this even mean?

(09-18-2014 02:51 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:42 PM)jh Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 02:29 PM)jh Wrote:  Only the thread in your head is about that. In the real world, this thread is about Ms. Coulter's concern that people voting for Libertarian candidates will allow the Democrats to retain control of the Senate.

Pal, those "libertarian" candidates are running under GOP tickets.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Because it doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does. You are your own party. Create your own ticket.

What does this even mean?

Libertarian are not Republicans. Why do you run as Republicans?