Does anybody have info regarding when the Orange bowl hosts the playoff if that contract is nullified since they have a different setup than the other bowls?
The ACC champ not making playoff would be displaced and put into the Access Bowl, but what about the other side of the Highest ranked SEC/B1G/ND team when the Orange hosts?
Reason I ask is because it'll determine whether in that year if there is 1 at large or 2-3 at large spots.
Rose: Pac/B1G
Sugar: B12/SEC
Orange: playoff
Cotton: playoff
Peach: ACC champ vs higest B1G/SEC/ND or ACC champ vs @ large or @ large vs @ large.
Fiesta: G5 vs @large

The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl. They are not guaranteed anything any other years.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

Edit: Given that set-up, my expectation is that we very rarely have teams in the access bowls whom the committee wouldn't have taken anyway. In years when the Fiesta and Peach host, there won't be any automatically. In years when the Orange and Cotton host, you only have the ACC champ to be concerned with. In years the Rose and Sugar host, you could conceivably have two with the Big Ten and SEC champs. That's an average of 1 possible team per year, and how often will a) one of those conferences not be in the semi-finals anyway, b) have a champ not high enough to have been chosen for one of the other bowls anyway, and c) have all that happen in a year where their bowl is a semi-final. It will happen for sure and might happen with the Big Ten this year if things fall right, but I'm guessing only about 3 year total of it happening in the 12 year contract.

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

Ahh. Got it. That makes sense now.

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ. So say Oklahoma finishes 3rd and in playoff- and 2nd Big 12 team is 15th- that team is out.

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ. So say Oklahoma finishes 3rd and in playoff- and 2nd Big 12 team is 15th- that team is out.

OK so then looking through the rotations as the rankings stand now.

This year has 4 at large spots.
Next year has 3 at large spots. (Could change to 2 if ACC champ isn't in playoff)
The 3rd year has 1 at large spot.

This really affects the Indy's like BYU and to a certain extent Notre Dame.

(09-10-2014 11:08 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Does anybody have info regarding when the Orange bowl hosts the playoff if that contract is nullified since they have a different setup than the other bowls?

The contract only applies to the years when the OB is not a playoff bowl. In the years when it is a playoff bowl, it has no contractual relationship with the ACC, the SEC, the B1G, or Notre Dame.

In those playoff years, those conferences/school will place their teams in other bowls in accordance with their own contracts with those other bowls.

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ.

The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Really the year 3 is the year there will be only one open spot.

Fiesta & Peach are playoffs

Sugar SEC vs B12
Rose PAC 12 vs B10
Orange ACC vs B10/SEC/ND (If B10 oppenent, ACC get B10 Capital One Spot)
Peach G5 vs Open Slot

Once again going back to my recurring question, why would the P5 want to expand past 4? Basically, the playoff money is nothing compared to what the bowl payout is.
Rose 40 Mill per team
Sugar 40 Mill per team
ACC receives 27.5 Mill

CFP only pays conferences $6 million per team participating in the semifinals and $4 million per team participating in the other major bowls. Until the bowl system is killed entirely, there is no incentive for ADs and College Presidents to move past four teams. No way it happens before 12 years and unlikely after that.

This year has 5 open spots(minus however many of the 4 don't make the sf)
next year has 3 open spots(minus possibly 1 if ACC doesn't make SF)
2 years from now has 1 open spot.

(09-10-2014 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ.

The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Not totally true. Say Mich St wins the Big Ten, but doesn't make the playoff. They are not eligible for the Contract Orange Bowl. They would have to go to an access bowl.

(09-10-2014 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ.

The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Not totally true. Say Mich St wins the Big Ten, but doesn't make the playoff. They are not eligible for the Contract Orange Bowl. They would have to go to an access bowl.

I am thinking there will be leeway. Take this example, #5PSU and #7MSU were gong to be eligible to play in the non semi-final games. Based upon match-up or re-match, the committee would have the option to send the B10 Champ PSU to Orange and the #2 B10 to Access. To say avoid a rematch with G5 champ UCF playing in the Peach Bowl. I believe the Committee is allowed to do this as long as both bowls would be fine with this.

From CFB
Participants in the New Year’s Bowls
Both participants in the Orange, Rose and Sugar Bowls are contracted outside the playoff arrange­ment (Big Ten and Pac-12 to Rose Bowl; SEC and Big 12 to Sugar Bowl; ACC to Orange Bowl against the highest ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten and Notre Dame). If a conference champion qualifies for the playoff, then the bowl will choose a replacement from that conference. When those bowls host the semifinals and their contracted conference champions do not qualify, then the dis­placed champion(s) will play in the other New Year’s bowls.

The Fiesta, Cotton and Peach Bowls will host displaced conference champions and the top-ranked champion from a non-contract conference. The highest-ranked available teams will fill any other berths. The Selection Committee will make the pairings.

The amount of open spots is important for match-ups, but I don't think it will be huge in terms of who's in the CFP (I'd guess an average one team in and one team out that would have been different in other years). With 6 bowls, you are talking 12 teams in every year and most of those in the contract bowls will be in the top 12 every year anyway so for the most part, all we are switching up is match-ups.

(09-10-2014 12:13 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ.

The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Not totally true. Say Mich St wins the Big Ten, but doesn't make the playoff. They are not eligible for the Contract Orange Bowl. They would have to go to an access bowl.

I am thinking there will be leeway. Take this example, #5PSU and #7MSU were gong to be eligible to play in the non semi-final games. Based upon match-up or re-match, the committee would have the option to send the B10 Champ PSU to Orange and the #2 B10 to Access. To say avoid a rematch with G5 champ UCF playing in the Peach Bowl. I believe the Committee is allowed to do this as long as both bowls would be fine with this.

From CFB
Participants in the New Year’s Bowls
Both participants in the Orange, Rose and Sugar Bowls are contracted outside the playoff arrange­ment (Big Ten and Pac-12 to Rose Bowl; SEC and Big 12 to Sugar Bowl; ACC to Orange Bowl against the highest ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten and Notre Dame). If a conference champion qualifies for the playoff, then the bowl will choose a replacement from that conference. When those bowls host the semifinals and their contracted conference champions do not qualify, then the dis­placed champion(s) will play in the other New Year’s bowls.

The Fiesta, Cotton and Peach Bowls will host displaced conference champions and the top-ranked champion from a non-contract conference. The highest-ranked available teams will fill any other berths. The Selection Committee will make the pairings.

I disagree with you. They were pretty crystal clear in this requirement that conference champs don't go to the Orange. They would in your scenario just send Penn St to either the Fiesta or Cotton to avoid the matchup with UCF.

(09-10-2014 12:19 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The amount of open spots is important for match-ups, but I don't think it will be huge in terms of who's in the CFP (I'd guess an average one team in and one team out that would have been different in other years). With 6 bowls, you are talking 12 teams in every year and most of those in the contract bowls will be in the top 12 every year anyway so for the most part, all we are switching up is match-ups.

I think it could be more than just 1. Esp if 1-2 of the conferences are pretty top heavy.

(09-10-2014 12:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:13 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ.

The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Not totally true. Say Mich St wins the Big Ten, but doesn't make the playoff. They are not eligible for the Contract Orange Bowl. They would have to go to an access bowl.

I am thinking there will be leeway. Take this example, #5PSU and #7MSU were gong to be eligible to play in the non semi-final games. Based upon match-up or re-match, the committee would have the option to send the B10 Champ PSU to Orange and the #2 B10 to Access. To say avoid a rematch with G5 champ UCF playing in the Peach Bowl. I believe the Committee is allowed to do this as long as both bowls would be fine with this.

From CFB
Participants in the New Year’s Bowls
Both participants in the Orange, Rose and Sugar Bowls are contracted outside the playoff arrange­ment (Big Ten and Pac-12 to Rose Bowl; SEC and Big 12 to Sugar Bowl; ACC to Orange Bowl against the highest ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten and Notre Dame). If a conference champion qualifies for the playoff, then the bowl will choose a replacement from that conference. When those bowls host the semifinals and their contracted conference champions do not qualify, then the dis­placed champion(s) will play in the other New Year’s bowls.

The Fiesta, Cotton and Peach Bowls will host displaced conference champions and the top-ranked champion from a non-contract conference. The highest-ranked available teams will fill any other berths. The Selection Committee will make the pairings.

I disagree with you. They were pretty crystal clear in this requirement that conference champs don't go to the Orange. They would in your scenario just send Penn St to either the Fiesta or Cotton to avoid the matchup with UCF.

The CFP guidelines do say "The Fiesta, Cotton and Peach Bowls will host displaced conference champions" and that will probably hold true. But there were many "rules" that got bent by the bowls during the BCS era, so we can't rule out the possibility that this one will get bent or that an "exception" will be made at some point.

Theoretically, I'm sure the committee (with the permission of the access bowls) and the Orange Bowl could make arrangements if it was mutually beneficial, but practically I'd be stunned to see it. We never saw it in the BCS era that I remember and it would have been a lot easier (fewer parties involved).

The rule about conference champs was put in place to help the access bowls. The Fiesta, Cotton, and Peach already have worse start times and will rarely get conference champs. To up their value, they want at least a chance at an occasional conference champ and the Orange Bowl rule gives them that. I doubt they end up willing to trade that away.

(09-10-2014 12:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:13 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Not totally true. Say Mich St wins the Big Ten, but doesn't make the playoff. They are not eligible for the Contract Orange Bowl. They would have to go to an access bowl.

I am thinking there will be leeway. Take this example, #5PSU and #7MSU were gong to be eligible to play in the non semi-final games. Based upon match-up or re-match, the committee would have the option to send the B10 Champ PSU to Orange and the #2 B10 to Access. To say avoid a rematch with G5 champ UCF playing in the Peach Bowl. I believe the Committee is allowed to do this as long as both bowls would be fine with this.

From CFB
Participants in the New Year’s Bowls
Both participants in the Orange, Rose and Sugar Bowls are contracted outside the playoff arrange­ment (Big Ten and Pac-12 to Rose Bowl; SEC and Big 12 to Sugar Bowl; ACC to Orange Bowl against the highest ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten and Notre Dame). If a conference champion qualifies for the playoff, then the bowl will choose a replacement from that conference. When those bowls host the semifinals and their contracted conference champions do not qualify, then the dis­placed champion(s) will play in the other New Year’s bowls.

The Fiesta, Cotton and Peach Bowls will host displaced conference champions and the top-ranked champion from a non-contract conference. The highest-ranked available teams will fill any other berths. The Selection Committee will make the pairings.

I disagree with you. They were pretty crystal clear in this requirement that conference champs don't go to the Orange. They would in your scenario just send Penn St to either the Fiesta or Cotton to avoid the matchup with UCF.

The CFP guidelines do say "The Fiesta, Cotton and Peach Bowls will host displaced conference champions" and that will probably hold true. But there were many "rules" that got bent by the bowls during the BCS era, so we can't rule out the possibility that this one will get bent or that an "exception" will be made at some point.

really what rules got bent? they tweaked rules after the fact- ie the Rose Bowl rule after USC/Iowa played in the Orange in 2002, or the Kansas St rule.

The only possible time I see it coming into play would be in year 10. That year is a Rose/Sugar hosting the SF, and the 7th Orange Bowl year hosting SEC/Big Ten. If Orange has had in the 1st 6 years either 5 sec and 1 Big Ten or 4 SEC, 1 Big Ten, 1 ND- meaning Big Ten has to go- and the champ is the only top 15 Big Ten team(say ranked 7th)- I could see them maybe making that move. But, that'd be it quite frankly..

(09-10-2014 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:19 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The amount of open spots is important for match-ups, but I don't think it will be huge in terms of who's in the CFP (I'd guess an average one team in and one team out that would have been different in other years). With 6 bowls, you are talking 12 teams in every year and most of those in the contract bowls will be in the top 12 every year anyway so for the most part, all we are switching up is match-ups.

I think it could be more than just 1. Esp if 1-2 of the conferences are pretty top heavy.

S20, only reason I say this was part of one of the examples they were showing in their presentations. They actually showed moving an ACC team to an access bowl from the Orange to avoid a rematch from the previous year bowl. They also have been pretty adamant about about keep teams closer to their region if at all possible and having flexibility. We probably truly will not know until the committee finally meets and does the parings. I would be shocked they would be against it if the bowls had no issue and came to them first.

(09-10-2014 12:35 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:19 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The amount of open spots is important for match-ups, but I don't think it will be huge in terms of who's in the CFP (I'd guess an average one team in and one team out that would have been different in other years). With 6 bowls, you are talking 12 teams in every year and most of those in the contract bowls will be in the top 12 every year anyway so for the most part, all we are switching up is match-ups.

I think it could be more than just 1. Esp if 1-2 of the conferences are pretty top heavy.

S20, only reason I say this was part of one of the examples they were showing in their presentations. They actually showed moving an ACC team to an access bowl from the Orange to avoid a rematch from the previous year bowl. They also have been pretty adamant about about keep teams closer to their region if at all possible and having flexibility. We probably truly will not know until the committee finally meets and does the parings. I would be shocked they would be against it if the bowls had no issue and came to them first.

No chance they move the ACC team. They can move the SEC/Big Ten team though.

I think one thing to remember is the Fiesta has been pretty good to the Big Ten thru the years. While some think it's a haul- and it is- it's got a lot more history now than the Peach does for them.

And yes, I do think the Fiesta/Cotton/Peach would have a huge issue with not getting the Big Ten champ. That rule was put in place for a reason....

(09-10-2014 11:50 AM)stever20 Wrote:  This year has 5 open spots(minus however many of the 4 don't make the sf)
next year has 3 open spots(minus possibly 1 if ACC doesn't make SF)
2 years from now has 1 open spot.

That is a better way to explain the open spots!