Interesting article to see how people have been adjusting to the high costs of college.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/families-...1406779205

What I find most interesting is this:

Quote:
For one thing, more students attended a two-year public college, and many such students live at home. The 34% of students using two-year public schools was the highest in the seven years the study has been conducted.

"You can save an enormous amount of money" at a two-year school, said Christopher Russo, 22, of Bridgewater, N.J., who received an associate degree in May from nearby Raritan Valley Community College.

Quote:
Mr. Russo will incur a limited amount of debt when he continues his education this fall at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey. While some of his friends attending private colleges will end up with huge debt burdens, he said, "I'll be out of debt incredibly fast," probably a few years after graduation, thanks to his in-state tuition at Rutgers and spending the first two years at a community college.

Michael J. McDonough, president of Raritan Valley Community College, said that as families have become more cost-conscious, "community colleges have become more aggressive in marketing [their] affordability."

Meantime, among the 22% of families with students at four-year private colleges, some appear to have sought lower-priced schools, Ms. Ducich said. While the average costs for two-year and four-year public schools in 2013-14 rose 3.2% and 6.4%, respectively, from the previous school year, the average expense for four-year private schools fell 11.6% from $39,434 the prior year. All figures are before reductions for aid.

Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

I see this really hurting schools like Pitt and PSU, who have the highest in state tuition costs among all the public schools in the country.

(07-31-2014 10:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Interesting article to see how people have been adjusting to the high costs of college.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/families-...1406779205

What I find most interesting is this:

Quote:
For one thing, more students attended a two-year public college, and many such students live at home. The 34% of students using two-year public schools was the highest in the seven years the study has been conducted.

"You can save an enormous amount of money" at a two-year school, said Christopher Russo, 22, of Bridgewater, N.J., who received an associate degree in May from nearby Raritan Valley Community College.

Quote:
Mr. Russo will incur a limited amount of debt when he continues his education this fall at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey. While some of his friends attending private colleges will end up with huge debt burdens, he said, "I'll be out of debt incredibly fast," probably a few years after graduation, thanks to his in-state tuition at Rutgers and spending the first two years at a community college.

Michael J. McDonough, president of Raritan Valley Community College, said that as families have become more cost-conscious, "community colleges have become more aggressive in marketing [their] affordability."

Meantime, among the 22% of families with students at four-year private colleges, some appear to have sought lower-priced schools, Ms. Ducich said. While the average costs for two-year and four-year public schools in 2013-14 rose 3.2% and 6.4%, respectively, from the previous school year, the average expense for four-year private schools fell 11.6% from $39,434 the prior year. All figures are before reductions for aid.

Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

I see this really hurting schools like Pitt and PSU, who have the highest in state tuition costs among all the public schools in the country.

Two of my children went to Baton Rouge Community College for two years.

One just graduated from LSU with a degree in Civil Engineering and the other is a nursing student.

It just made more financial sense to do it this way rather than have them attend LSU or another undergrad university for all four years.

All of their credits transferred and it was much cheaper to go this route.

As to affiliation, both dislike LSU athletics intensely (as does their older brother who went four years to LSU and graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree from there) and are all die hard ND fans from birth.

So, the four years vs. two years at the local university did not matter in our case.

(07-31-2014 10:53 AM)TerryD Wrote:  As to affiliation, both dislike LSU athletics intensely (as does their older brother who went four years to LSU and graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree from there) and are all die hard ND fans from birth.

Gee, I wonder where they got that mindset from?

Quote:Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

What's ironic is that there's nothing new about this model. Back when an Associates degree meant something, certain institutions relied heavily on two-year schools or the 2+2/feeder campuses. The door's just opening for more types of schools to take on these transfer students when before, certain schools wouldn't touch them.

It's really the four-year schools' "fault," if it can be looked at that way. The costs went way up and the four-year completion rate plummeted. All the while, schools thought students needed a more "well-rounded" education, and started piling on additional work, which cost the students time and money, causing them to either drop, transfer, or take on some monster debt (that could send our economy back into the toilet, supposedly).

The value's not all there, though, at the two-year level. Four-year schools still find a way to suck the blood out of the students. Certain regulations set forth by schools' accrediting bodies and affiliations can virtually nullify a significant chunk of a student's work coming into a four-year after doing the two-year thing (certain business programs, like those backed by AACSB, and core tech/programming programs), and stuff like "your math class is only three credits, and ours is four, so...nuts to you," so it's not like putting chips on the two-year thing is the wisest decision.

(07-31-2014 01:36 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

Quote:Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

What's ironic is that there's nothing new about this model. Back when an Associates degree meant something, certain institutions relied heavily on two-year schools or the 2+2/feeder campuses. The door's just opening for more types of schools to take on these transfer students when before, certain schools wouldn't touch them.

It's really the four-year schools' "fault," if it can be looked at that way. The costs went way up and the four-year completion rate plummeted. All the while, schools thought students needed a more "well-rounded" education, and started piling on additional work, which cost the students time and money, causing them to either drop, transfer, or take on some monster debt (that could send our economy back into the toilet, supposedly).

The value's not all there, though, at the two-year level. Four-year schools still find a way to suck the blood out of the students. Certain regulations set forth by schools' accrediting bodies and affiliations can virtually nullify a significant chunk of a student's work coming into a four-year after doing the two-year thing (certain business programs, like those backed by AACSB, and core tech/programming programs), and stuff like "your math class is only three credits, and ours is four, so...nuts to you," so it's not like putting chips on the two-year thing is the wisest decision.

True, this isn't old news. However, I don't think there is that same stigma of someone starting out at CC and finishing at a 4 year school that there used to be. Also, I believe that a number of states are stepping in to make sure that the CC's and the 4 year schools are working more cooperatively by standardizing courses so that they are more universally accepted between universities. Some initiatives being done in Ohio:

http://transforming.ohio.gov/doc/MBR_Hig...cation.pdf

The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

No doubt based on the number of online courses available at the established schools now. But aren't schools like U of Phoenix still viewed negatively by many companies? Perhaps it's more the Fortune 500 companies that have that view while the smaller businesses don't care so much.

(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

Online classes from a reputable school might be accepted by the mainstream, but for-profit schools are still the jokes they've always been. Maybe I just know the wrong people, but are there really people out there who respect a University of Phoenix or DeVry degree? I find a community college degree more respectable than a piece of paper from a "school" that spends more money on marketing than on being a school.

Let's not kid ourselves, the only reason anyone would be OK with a Penn State online degree is because it has the Penn State name on it.

The percentage of students going to 2-year colleges first may be increasing. But I've heard that the number of students starting out as freshmen at a 4-year school is higher than ever.

But the biggest trend in admissions over the past decade has been a huge increase in foreign students. They've grown from 564k in 2005 to to 819k in 2012, a steady increase of 5% per year that is actually expected to grow faster than that in the future (initial estimates for growth in 2013 are around 13%).

Almost all of these kids attend FBS, Ivy, or UAA institutions (plus MIT, Hopkins, Caltech, and a handful of others). Full-time enrollment at all D-1 institutions totals about 4.6 million in 2012, so an extra 250,000 students is a huge increase.

These are almost all 4-year students, and most of them don't have scholarships. If they're paying an average of 50k/year (and many are paying way more than that after living expenses because they're usually from wealthy families), that's $40 billion/year. That means that higher education has rapidly become one of America's biggest export industries.

(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

Enrolling yes, graduating not so much

(07-31-2014 10:53 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 10:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Interesting article to see how people have been adjusting to the high costs of college.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/families-...1406779205

What I find most interesting is this:

Quote:
For one thing, more students attended a two-year public college, and many such students live at home. The 34% of students using two-year public schools was the highest in the seven years the study has been conducted.

"You can save an enormous amount of money" at a two-year school, said Christopher Russo, 22, of Bridgewater, N.J., who received an associate degree in May from nearby Raritan Valley Community College.

Quote:
Mr. Russo will incur a limited amount of debt when he continues his education this fall at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey. While some of his friends attending private colleges will end up with huge debt burdens, he said, "I'll be out of debt incredibly fast," probably a few years after graduation, thanks to his in-state tuition at Rutgers and spending the first two years at a community college.

Michael J. McDonough, president of Raritan Valley Community College, said that as families have become more cost-conscious, "community colleges have become more aggressive in marketing [their] affordability."

Meantime, among the 22% of families with students at four-year private colleges, some appear to have sought lower-priced schools, Ms. Ducich said. While the average costs for two-year and four-year public schools in 2013-14 rose 3.2% and 6.4%, respectively, from the previous school year, the average expense for four-year private schools fell 11.6% from $39,434 the prior year. All figures are before reductions for aid.

Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

I see this really hurting schools like Pitt and PSU, who have the highest in state tuition costs among all the public schools in the country.

Two of my children went to Baton Rouge Community College for two years.

One just graduated from LSU with a degree in Civil Engineering and the other is a nursing student.

It just made more financial sense to do it this way rather than have them attend LSU or another undergrad university for all four years.

All of their credits transferred and it was much cheaper to go this route.

As to affiliation, both dislike LSU athletics intensely (as does their older brother who went four years to LSU and graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree from there) and are all die hard ND fans from birth.

So, the four years vs. two years at the local university did not matter in our case.

The UNC system is like this. You can pick up 64 hours from one of the 59 community colleges and then go to State or Carolina as a junior without paying 5 times the price to take Freshman Algebra or English and then being taught the class by an angry Graduate Teaching Assistant.

In state tuition at State or Carolina is just 12-14K a year or about $1000 at credit hour. The cost at the local community college is just above $200.

The education bubble is moving along just like the past bubbles in Tech, housing, etc.

Eventually when that Merry Go Round stops, Congress will have find a way to write-off the private loan debt. Stafford and other federal programs are reasonable to a point, but the attempt by the middle cohort of universities to have a gold plated experience for students can't last.

(07-31-2014 10:53 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 10:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Interesting article to see how people have been adjusting to the high costs of college.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/families-...1406779205

What I find most interesting is this:

Quote:
For one thing, more students attended a two-year public college, and many such students live at home. The 34% of students using two-year public schools was the highest in the seven years the study has been conducted.

"You can save an enormous amount of money" at a two-year school, said Christopher Russo, 22, of Bridgewater, N.J., who received an associate degree in May from nearby Raritan Valley Community College.

Quote:
Mr. Russo will incur a limited amount of debt when he continues his education this fall at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey. While some of his friends attending private colleges will end up with huge debt burdens, he said, "I'll be out of debt incredibly fast," probably a few years after graduation, thanks to his in-state tuition at Rutgers and spending the first two years at a community college.

Michael J. McDonough, president of Raritan Valley Community College, said that as families have become more cost-conscious, "community colleges have become more aggressive in marketing [their] affordability."

Meantime, among the 22% of families with students at four-year private colleges, some appear to have sought lower-priced schools, Ms. Ducich said. While the average costs for two-year and four-year public schools in 2013-14 rose 3.2% and 6.4%, respectively, from the previous school year, the average expense for four-year private schools fell 11.6% from $39,434 the prior year. All figures are before reductions for aid.

Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

I see this really hurting schools like Pitt and PSU, who have the highest in state tuition costs among all the public schools in the country.

Two of my children went to Baton Rouge Community College for two years.

One just graduated from LSU with a degree in Civil Engineering and the other is a nursing student.

It just made more financial sense to do it this way rather than have them attend LSU or another undergrad university for all four years.

All of their credits transferred and it was much cheaper to go this route.

As to affiliation, both dislike LSU athletics intensely (as does their older brother who went four years to LSU and graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree from there) and are all die hard ND fans from birth.

So, the four years vs. two years at the local university did not matter in our case.

Terry D. is a cheapskate.

(07-31-2014 03:53 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

No doubt based on the number of online courses available at the established schools now. But aren't schools like U of Phoenix still viewed negatively by many companies? Perhaps it's more the Fortune 500 companies that have that view while the smaller businesses don't care so much.

It depends on what field you are going into. If you are going into an established, traditional profession then an established traditional higher education is valued. If you are going into lower level government you have to consider cost/benefit of spending on a private vs public or two year vs four year. Many cutting edge emerging industries/fields don't care about where your degree is from. I have a good number of friends in computers and robotics who went the college rout then went to a DeVry or ITT Tech. Most said that the courses at the tech schools were far better than anything they took at their colleges.

(07-31-2014 07:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 10:53 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 10:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Interesting article to see how people have been adjusting to the high costs of college.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/families-...1406779205

What I find most interesting is this:

Quote:
For one thing, more students attended a two-year public college, and many such students live at home. The 34% of students using two-year public schools was the highest in the seven years the study has been conducted.

"You can save an enormous amount of money" at a two-year school, said Christopher Russo, 22, of Bridgewater, N.J., who received an associate degree in May from nearby Raritan Valley Community College.

Quote:
Mr. Russo will incur a limited amount of debt when he continues his education this fall at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey. While some of his friends attending private colleges will end up with huge debt burdens, he said, "I'll be out of debt incredibly fast," probably a few years after graduation, thanks to his in-state tuition at Rutgers and spending the first two years at a community college.

Michael J. McDonough, president of Raritan Valley Community College, said that as families have become more cost-conscious, "community colleges have become more aggressive in marketing [their] affordability."

Meantime, among the 22% of families with students at four-year private colleges, some appear to have sought lower-priced schools, Ms. Ducich said. While the average costs for two-year and four-year public schools in 2013-14 rose 3.2% and 6.4%, respectively, from the previous school year, the average expense for four-year private schools fell 11.6% from $39,434 the prior year. All figures are before reductions for aid.

Looks like the future model - if full scale universities don't react - will be for students to spend 2 years at community colleges and then finish their degrees at university. What I wonder will be whether kids who pursue a degree like this will still feel that same affiliation with a school as they used to when they spent their entire time at the big university. You would think that this could be a threat to attendance to university athletic events in the future.

I see this really hurting schools like Pitt and PSU, who have the highest in state tuition costs among all the public schools in the country.

Two of my children went to Baton Rouge Community College for two years.

One just graduated from LSU with a degree in Civil Engineering and the other is a nursing student.

It just made more financial sense to do it this way rather than have them attend LSU or another undergrad university for all four years.

All of their credits transferred and it was much cheaper to go this route.

As to affiliation, both dislike LSU athletics intensely (as does their older brother who went four years to LSU and graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree from there) and are all die hard ND fans from birth.

So, the four years vs. two years at the local university did not matter in our case.

Terry D. is a cheapskate.

No, just smart. And, I had/have three kids going through college.

(07-31-2014 04:53 PM)FuzzyHasek Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

Enrolling yes, graduating not so much

What I've noticed lately is that a good percentage of traditional colleges are reporting graduation rates based on SIX year cycles. Six years to get a four year degree and still you would be shocked to see how low the graduation rates are for some schools.

The number of high school grads each year is projected to fall over the next decade or so.

(07-31-2014 08:37 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 04:53 PM)FuzzyHasek Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

Enrolling yes, graduating not so much

What I've noticed lately is that a good percentage of traditional colleges are reporting graduation rates based on SIX year cycles. Six years to get a four year degree and still you would be shocked to see how low the graduation rates are for some schools.

"Six years to get a four year degree" because even public universities cost a helluva lot more than they did "back in the day" and students have to work more part-time hours, or take a couple of semesters off to work full-time and make more money, etc. And, "back in the day", more students could rely on more help from their parents, but today fewer parents are working at full-time jobs with good salaries and many of them are working part-time or trying to make ends meet with multiple jobs.

Call me cynical but if 2 years of CC becomes more the norm, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Accreditation Boards becoming much more "strict" in their judgements in order to protect the higher Universities from such a trend.

Ease of transfer of credits is the "problem" according to some. That isn't my view of course, that is just me stepping into the shoes of some folks that would see this trend as very threatening and yes, they have the ability to apply pressure and leverage.

(07-31-2014 09:42 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Call me cynical but if 2 years of CC becomes more the norm, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Accreditation Boards becoming much more "strict" in their judgements in order to protect the higher Universities from such a trend.

Ease of transfer of credits is the "problem" according to some. That isn't my view of course, that is just me stepping into the shoes of some folks that would see this trend as very threatening and yes, they have the ability to apply pressure and leverage.

Which lever is larger - the 4 year degree granting universities that are charging a premium for low level courses or the groups feeling the strain of swelling debt that may become our next popping bubble? IMHO, the 4 year degree granting institutions will embrace this growing trend and will try to figure out how to work with the CC's to minimize the damage to themselves. The market will sort it out, and the Feds/State gov'ts will push for greater ease of credit transfers. There is simply too much at stake with the student loan debt situation. People don't want to see another financial crisis.