(07-30-2014 10:12 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Regardless, you were not bullying them.

Directly, no. Indirectly, yes.

The whole point in the matter is to try and inform kids that they may be hurting people indirectly and not recognize it.

(07-30-2014 10:11 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 09:57 AM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  We played "Smear the Queer"

Me too - great game!

Yes, but didn't the word originally simply mean "odd"?

It's a word stolen by the gay community, and then flipped to feign offense (for example, you can't use it in on-line Boggle).

(07-30-2014 10:07 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 09:48 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  But that's the wrong analysis.

By your own admission you and your friends bullied non-gays, but you're not aware of bullying gays.

Using those slurs is still an attack on the people who are gay... even if you weren't directly attacking that person at the time. They heard it, I'm quite positive it hurt them. I have come to find out quite a few of my classmates were gay so I do imagine my buddies and I hurt them at some level.

I would think this is pretty close to a situation in which a black kid overheard a bunch of white kids jokingly calling each other n-bombs. It may not be directed at him, but it most certainly is going to create some feelings that shouldn't he shouldn't have to deal with.

Hum. I overheard people calling others 4 eyes and bones, food stamps and many other things that applied to me. Didn't care. Didn't care when it was directed right at me either. Fags got some thin skin I suppose.

(07-30-2014 10:13 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 10:12 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Regardless, you were not bullying them.

Directly, no. Indirectly, yes.

No. You're just trying to redefine a word.

Quote:The whole point in the matter is to try and inform kids that they may be hurting people indirectly and not recognize it.

Not at all. The point is to bring attention to an issue that is being exaggerated.

Nope. I see it happen every single year.

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(07-30-2014 10:31 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Nope. I see it happen every single year.

Agreed. I can't speak to how often, but I continue to hear stories from my mom (retired but subs) and my sister (still full time). It happens and when it does happen it should be dealt with swiftly. That goes for all bullying, not just gay bullying.

(07-30-2014 10:50 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 10:31 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Nope. I see it happen every single year.

Agreed. I can't speak to how often, but I continue to hear stories from my mom (retired but subs) and my sister (still full time). It happens and when it does happen it should be dealt with swiftly. That goes for all bullying, not just gay bullying.

I tend to agree, but how do you deal with it? Unless things have changed, adult intervention makes things worse and causes it to migrate off school grounds and away from adults where it can really get out of hand.

(07-30-2014 10:07 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 09:48 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  But that's the wrong analysis.

By your own admission you and your friends bullied non-gays, but you're not aware of bullying gays.

Using those slurs is still an attack on the people who are gay... even if you weren't directly attacking that person at the time. They heard it, I'm quite positive it hurt them. I have come to find out quite a few of my classmates were gay so I do imagine my buddies and I hurt them at some level.

I would think this is pretty close to a situation in which a black kid overheard a bunch of white kids jokingly calling each other n-bombs. It may not be directed at him, but it most certainly is going to create some feelings that shouldn't he shouldn't have to deal with.

Sticks and stones, man. I'm called a racist, a homophobe, a bigot, and other stuff on this board daily, some people even have me on ignore. Would totally ignoring a gay guy count as bullying? In the end it's all just words, right? And if words from people you don't care about bother you then you have the problem and no one else.

No. It isn't.

(07-30-2014 11:36 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  No. It isn't.

It's just words. PERIOD.

just drop the gloves and get it done.

(07-30-2014 09:45 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 09:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And that makes it wrong because?

I'd like to see better sources, that is my point. Just the same when I see something attacking "conservatives" on Huffington Post. I take it with a grain of salt. Same goes with this "source."

That being said, I'm not in school but 20 years ago when I was 15 I know for a fact that any kids that were not part of the in crowd were called "fags," and my buddies and I would all call each other gay and fags when we were just ripping on each other. I'd be shocked if at some level teenage boys aren't still doing the same, especially if someone is openly gay.

You'd only be half shocked. They push each other, punch each other in the arm, call each other fag and don't be gay and why you such a ***** and all the rest that's been going on since time began.

The "shocking" part (not really at all, least to me) is they would rarely (I changed that from "never" as that is impossible to believe) engage or act this way towards an openly gay person. They treat them with due respect
and actually, when appropriate, go out of their way to be "inclusive".

The exception always proves the rule. It's "news" when the bullying occurs, not when it doesn't.

(07-30-2014 09:48 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 09:45 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 09:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And that makes it wrong because?

I'd like to see better sources, that is my point. Just the same when I see something attacking "conservatives" on Huffington Post. I take it with a grain of salt. Same goes with this "source."

That being said, I'm not in school but 20 years ago when I was 15 I know for a fact that any kids that were not part of the in crowd were called "fags," and my buddies and I would all call each other gay and fags when we were just ripping on each other. I'd be shocked if at some level teenage boys aren't still doing the same, especially if someone is openly gay.

But that's the wrong analysis.

By your own admission you and your friends bullied non-gays, but you're not aware of bullying gays.

Torch already addressed it. This. ^

(07-30-2014 11:53 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  The exception always proves the rule. It's "news" when the bullying occurs, not when it doesn't.

Good point.

I don't think it's a myth but I think its been blown out of proportion. Fat kids, skinny kids, smart kids, and dumb kids all get bullied and picked on..

(07-30-2014 12:13 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I don't think it's a myth but I think its been blown out of proportion. Fat kids, skinny kids, smart kids, and dumb kids all get bullied and picked on..

Well the question was "plague". Bullying in all it's forms has been and is going on somewhere all day, every day. Is the bullying, especially, of gays that much more prominent, or frequent?

As in, is it a plague? I'd say there's little evidence of that.

In the end, it isn't just words. It's physical abuse. We can stop most of it in school but almost nothing can be done outside of school. Last year we had a child who was gay being abused by his father. Cops refused to get involve d.

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(07-30-2014 01:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  In the end, it isn't just words. It's physical abuse. We can stop most of it in school but almost nothing can be done outside of school. Last year we had a child who was gay being abused by his father. Cops refused to get involve d.

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Abused how?

Actually, technically speaking, psychological abuse is physical abuse as well... since it leads to long lasting changes at the neuronal level. ;]

(07-30-2014 01:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  In the end, it isn't just words. It's physical abuse. We can stop most of it in school but almost nothing can be done outside of school. Last year we had a child who was gay being abused by his father. Cops refused to get involve d.

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The father goes to school with the kid? This is about bullying in schools.

And if being called names is too much for a kid's self esteem, what's he going to do when he gets rejected when he asks someone out on a date or when someone he loves dumps him? Or are we going to force people to accept other people into their lives that they might not want to accept?

Dude, it's a Little League game and it's it's the bottom of the 9th, two outs and the bases are loaded. A 12 year old pitcher is pitching to a 12 year old batter. One of them will be the goat. Get used to it.