there hasn't been a repeated show tune at JMU in at least 6 years.

I feel for the OSU members - latest victims of the PC police. Yeah, some things are over the top, but still. Nobody's forced to do anything, and still 1 person ruins the "fun" for hundreds of others. college Teens and 20 somethings will soon need permission slips to march halftime shows. It might get hot out there in that uniform and we wouldn't want anybody to sue for heat exhaustion.

Honestly, it just shows how scared you have to be about any perceived element of your program. Student tradition that happens off-campus? Who cares. You're fired.

(07-24-2014 03:02 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  And now the Band Director is fired.
http://www.nbc4i.com/story/26104644/osu-...llegations

I will say (as a Band Director), it looks like they made the right move. Some of the items are "normal" for Bands, but some of it crosses the line. The major problem is that this guy went from being a Sousaphone player there, right to a Grad Ass, right to a Asst. Director, and then right to Head Director. He has basically been allowed to have a college student mentality since he graduated from high school - which only allows any risque traditions to expand exponentially.

Much of the behavior seems over the top, but it appears he was the fall guy. It even states that certain things stopped the year he took over. From my view it seems like this was nothing new and he took the fall.
(It also doesn't help when he lies to the investigators. He didn't see any drinking. On a Band Trip. Yeah, sure...And then he lies about contacting a reporter after being expressly told not to do anything.)

The problem is that it wasn't just one thing - it was a lot of things. And those add up - especially when you have a program where 75% of the Band is made up of idiot teenage males. (If there were more females, I do think many of the more extreme things would go away, because the girls would feel more comfortable saying no to certain things.)

From reading the full report (not just the article), I just don't think the investigators believed the Director when he said that things were being cleaned up. The Director apparently stepped in to end some of these "traditions" this past May and June...only after he found out that an investigation was going on. They should have been stopped when you've got a staff member who has been there for 18 years quit mid-season because of the environment. I do think that if he had made a serious effort to stop some of the extreme stuff, he would still have a job. (And considering that he has been there moving through the ranks since the 90s, he can't claim that he doesn't know many of those traditions.)

(07-24-2014 11:50 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  The problem is that it wasn't just one thing - it was a lot of things. And those add up - especially when you have a program where 75% of the Band is made up of idiot teenage males. (If there were more females, I do think many of the more extreme things would go away, because the girls would feel more comfortable saying no to certain things.)

From reading the full report (not just the article), I just don't think the investigators believed the Director when he said that things were being cleaned up. The Director apparently stepped in to end some of these "traditions" this past May and June...only after he found out that an investigation was going on. They should have been stopped when you've got a staff member who has been there for 18 years quit mid-season because of the environment. I do think that if he had made a serious effort to stop some of the extreme stuff, he would still have a job. (And considering that he has been there moving through the ranks since the 90s, he can't claim that he doesn't know many of those traditions.)

Agreed, they didn't believe the current Director, but he replaced a former Director who had been in the position for over a quarter of a century, my point being the "traditions" of this out of control behavior didn't start on this guys watch.

Seems to me some sort of action short of termination should have been mandated to allow the new guy an opportunity to put an end to the problems. Only then, after a proscribed time period and monitoring if the problems recur would termination be appropriate.

The "off with their heads" mentality of the OSU administration makes the now unemployed band director a convenient scape goat.

(07-25-2014 09:15 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 11:50 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  The problem is that it wasn't just one thing - it was a lot of things. And those add up - especially when you have a program where 75% of the Band is made up of idiot teenage males. (If there were more females, I do think many of the more extreme things would go away, because the girls would feel more comfortable saying no to certain things.)

From reading the full report (not just the article), I just don't think the investigators believed the Director when he said that things were being cleaned up. The Director apparently stepped in to end some of these "traditions" this past May and June...only after he found out that an investigation was going on. They should have been stopped when you've got a staff member who has been there for 18 years quit mid-season because of the environment. I do think that if he had made a serious effort to stop some of the extreme stuff, he would still have a job. (And considering that he has been there moving through the ranks since the 90s, he can't claim that he doesn't know many of those traditions.)

Agreed, they didn't believe the current Director, but he replaced a former Director who had been in the position for over a quarter of a century, my point being the "traditions" of this out of control behavior didn't start on this guys watch.

Seems to me some sort of action short of termination should have been mandated to allow the new guy an opportunity to put an end to the problems. Only then, after a proscribed time period and monitoring if the problems recur would termination be appropriate.

The "off with their heads" mentality of the OSU administration makes the now unemployed band director a convenient scape goat.

I agree with you if we know emphatically that this wasn't discussed prior to his hiring. However, if the school knew of these things (I don't know how they couldn't have known) and it was discussed before the promotion, then proceed as necessary.

The music selection has come a LONG way from what it used to be. While I agree that some music doesn't necessarily fit a football game, I also don't think JMU should "dumb down" their music selections. There are some classical pieces that can be pretty bad-ass (Mars as a simple example). There are a ton of "in your face" pieces that would easily fit.
JMU will never be a pop-band, nor should they try to be. I don't ever want to see JMU be a gimmick.
Stand tunes are another story. I wouldn't mind getting those updated more often. They've been doing a great job of doing that lately and I hope that continues.
As for repeating comment, while it isn't a show-tune... Get It On needs to get the boot. Using it as pregame was bad enough (Start Wearing Purple is such a hit- great choice to change), but using it over and over as a concert tune was ridiculous.

Maybe its just me but I still think our marching band plays tunes more in line with a concert ensemble. At halftime, I feel like I am going to a symphony versus a football game.

(07-25-2014 12:51 PM)jmad1son Wrote:  ... I feel like I am going to a symphony versus a football game.

Nice compliment.

(07-25-2014 09:15 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 11:50 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  The problem is that it wasn't just one thing - it was a lot of things. And those add up - especially when you have a program where 75% of the Band is made up of idiot teenage males. (If there were more females, I do think many of the more extreme things would go away, because the girls would feel more comfortable saying no to certain things.)

From reading the full report (not just the article), I just don't think the investigators believed the Director when he said that things were being cleaned up. The Director apparently stepped in to end some of these "traditions" this past May and June...only after he found out that an investigation was going on. They should have been stopped when you've got a staff member who has been there for 18 years quit mid-season because of the environment. I do think that if he had made a serious effort to stop some of the extreme stuff, he would still have a job. (And considering that he has been there moving through the ranks since the 90s, he can't claim that he doesn't know many of those traditions.)

Agreed, they didn't believe the current Director, but he replaced a former Director who had been in the position for over a quarter of a century, my point being the "traditions" of this out of control behavior didn't start on this guys watch.

Seems to me some sort of action short of termination should have been mandated to allow the new guy an opportunity to put an end to the problems. Only then, after a proscribed time period and monitoring if the problems recur would termination be appropriate.

The "off with their heads" mentality of the OSU administration makes the now unemployed band director a convenient scape goat.

If he was a purely new person, I would give him A LOT of leeway and say that the firing was out of line. But he wasn't new. He participated in many of these traditions when he was an undergrad and a grad ass. I know from experience that it can be difficult to switch from a student mentality to one of a responsible authority figure (I work with my old high school), but it has to be done.

I wouldn't have had a problem with him and the program receiving a, say, 2-year probation with a lot of monitoring (no comment needed purplehazed ), but when you have so many things going on (including possible/likely lawsuits), then I understand the action.

It's hard to judge without knowing the people involved. Did seem like he was a "scapegoated" a little, but there was a lot of smoke that got out.

Did you guys not see the questions they were asking? Would you want your daughters faced with those types of questions? I dont think the guy was a scapegoat. The University is now vulnerable with lawsuits. Someone had to go. He was the captain of that ship and no way he didnt know what was going on.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(07-27-2014 05:24 PM)FBM2014 Wrote:  Did you guys not see the questions they were asking? Would you want your daughters faced with those types of questions? I dont think the guy was a scapegoat. The University is now vulnerable with lawsuits. Someone had to go. He was the captain of that ship and no way he didnt know what was going on.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

I didn't read anyone condoning or making an argument that the behavior was acceptable. The question is how does the culture that promoted this behavior get changed? The fact that OSU may face lawsuits in and of itself is a red herring...we live in a litigious age and people can sue for anything, and often do, for nothing. The university's focus has to be on making this behavior a thing of the past, and I question whether firing one young guy is really the solution, or just a ploy to salve the media.

Oh, and the notion "he was the captain" could have just as equally been applied to the band director's superior...and all the way up the line to the President's office. The statement "someone had to go" is the epitome of scapegoating.

Sorry. Thats just silly. Unless his superior knew what was going on - which that I doubt. But sure if the boss of the band director knew then by all means fire him or her too, Longhorn.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(07-27-2014 06:58 PM)FBM2014 Wrote:  Sorry. Thats just silly. Unless his superior knew what was going on - which that I doubt. But sure if the boss of the band director knew then by all means fire him or her too, Longhorn.

Again, I don't know the guy or the circumstances first-hand at all. In a group that size, with that much tradition, I feel confident some of these traditions were fairly well-known & the same "they should have been aware" expectation should apply all the way up the ladder.

Some of the reported allegations are pretty innocuous like sexually-charged nicknames that seemed to only offend students not involved in the nickname. College kids do this. Everywhere.

The rest adds up to something bad for sure & I'm certain that OSU is well within their rights to fire the guy. Just don't think it goes toward solving the issues here & that's why I use the term scapegoat.

(07-25-2014 12:51 PM)jmad1son Wrote:  Maybe its just me but I still think our marching band plays tunes more in line with a concert ensemble. At halftime, I feel like I am going to a symphony versus a football game.

I have a feeling you're not going to be thrilled with this year's music then.

Quote:I am pleased to announce that our first show of the year will feature music to celebrate the band’s trip to Italy in December. We will open with Dies Irae from Verid’s Requiem, then change things up a bit (yet stick with the Italian theme) with an excellent arrangement of Billy Joel’s Scenes from an Italian Restaurant. We will close the show with Rachmaninoff’s Variation No.18 from Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini and Respighi’s Pines of the Appian Way from Pines of Rome.

(07-28-2014 06:59 AM)Top Dawg Wrote:  

(07-25-2014 12:51 PM)jmad1son Wrote:  Maybe its just me but I still think our marching band plays tunes more in line with a concert ensemble. At halftime, I feel like I am going to a symphony versus a football game.

I have a feeling you're not going to be thrilled with this year's music then.

Quote:I am pleased to announce that our first show of the year will feature music to celebrate the band’s trip to Italy in December. We will open with Dies Irae from Verid’s Requiem, then change things up a bit (yet stick with the Italian theme) with an excellent arrangement of Billy Joel’s Scenes from an Italian Restaurant. We will close the show with Rachmaninoff’s Variation No.18 from Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini and Respighi’s Pines of the Appian Way from Pines of Rome.

Well at least the concert ensemble will sound good in all probability. The sound quality is not in question but the selection of music for a football game is.

Do you guys know that music? I think you're a bit off. I could take or leave the Billy Joel, but the rest is exciting, in-your-face music.

Serious question; what would you have the MRD's play? Rap music? Strictly classic rock? They really do mix in tons of popular music with arrangements of big loud symphonic stuff. I think some people here are under the impression that the staff is intentionally putting "boring" music out there due to some nonexistent battle between music & football.

(07-27-2014 07:49 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  In a group that size, with that much tradition, I feel confident some of these traditions were fairly well-known & the same "they should have been aware" expectation should apply all the way up the ladder.

Exactly my point. I don't think the problem will be addressed by firing one young guy.

(07-28-2014 02:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Do you guys know that music? I think you're a bit off. I could take or leave the Billy Joel, but the rest is exciting, in-your-face music.

Serious question; what would you have the MRD's play? Rap music? Strictly classic rock? They really do mix in tons of popular music with arrangements of big loud symphonic stuff. I think some people here are under the impression that the staff is intentionally putting "boring" music out there due to some nonexistent battle between music & football.

I like Verdi and think it will be great. The rest, I'm not so sure about, but I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it. I'm also curious to see how Bohemian rhapsody goes in the third (?) show.