The bottom line is Middle Tennessee escaped that game. So did Rice and Marshall. What FAU showed last year is they can compete in this league. And they did so with a team that only went .500 and wasn't one of their best squads.

(07-26-2014 10:59 PM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 10:26 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 03:37 PM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  Middle, Marshall, and Rice were all lucky to get their W's from us last year, and every single one of their fans will back that up.

Oh really?

Yeah, really. The stats of the game straight from ESPN.

MT FAU
1st Downs 21 28
Total Yards 446 503
Passing 150 321
Rushing 296 182
3rd Down Conversions 8-15 13-20
4th Down Conversions 1-1 2-3
Possession 27:49 32:11


But if you don't think a visiting team getting out-gained and still pulling out a win in OT after the home team was just 9 yards away from forcing a second overtime period is lucky, then I'd love to know what your definition of lucky is. Hell, any win in OT requires some bit of good luck, therefor making the winning team, even if it's just a little bit, lucky. That is, unless you're the great Middle Tennessee State University Blue Raiders. Then the only time luck is involved in football games is when bad luck wished upon by a Ghanian witchdoctor when the mighty Raiders lose. Those damn Ghanians...



An "A" for your devils advocate effort though!

Turning the FB over 5 times is likely going to give a team a short field to the end zone. Ends up with a lot of points on less yardage and smaller time of possession.

(07-27-2014 08:40 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 10:59 PM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 10:26 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 03:37 PM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  Middle, Marshall, and Rice were all lucky to get their W's from us last year, and every single one of their fans will back that up.

Oh really?

Yeah, really. The stats of the game straight from ESPN.

MT FAU
1st Downs 21 28
Total Yards 446 503
Passing 150 321
Rushing 296 182
3rd Down Conversions 8-15 13-20
4th Down Conversions 1-1 2-3
Possession 27:49 32:11


But if you don't think a visiting team getting out-gained and still pulling out a win in OT after the home team was just 9 yards away from forcing a second overtime period is lucky, then I'd love to know what your definition of lucky is. Hell, any win in OT requires some bit of good luck, therefor making the winning team, even if it's just a little bit, lucky. That is, unless you're the great Middle Tennessee State University Blue Raiders. Then the only time luck is involved in football games is when bad luck wished upon by a Ghanian witchdoctor when the mighty Raiders lose. Those damn Ghanians...



An "A" for your devils advocate effort though!

Turning the FB over 5 times is likely going to give a team a short field to the end zone. Ends up with a lot of points on less yardage and smaller time of possession.

"Luck" is a hard thing to define in football. Looking back at the Rice 18-14 win over FAU, FAU was leading 14-6 in the fourth quarter. Then on a 3rd and 9 from their own 17, the QB was chased, sacked, and fumbled, and the fumble returned 7 yards for a TD. Was the fact that FAU was facing a 3rd and long luck? Was the rush breaking through luck? Was the fumble luck, or just poor play by the QB or just good play by the rushers? Maybe there is some luck in the way the ball bounced - sure could have bounced in a different direction.

Following that play, FAU received the ball and still leading 14-12, threw an interception on the first play. Was it just blind luck, that the QB threw the ball at random and it fell into a Rice CB's hands? As I remember it, it was just a good play by our all-CUSA CB, and he returned it 22 yards. A couple of plays later, our running back broke loose for a 20 yard TD. Was a 20 yard run just luck, good play on our part, or bad play on FAU's part?

A friend of mine is fond of the old saying that "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity". Well, FAU gave us the opportunities. I guess we were prepared.

Yes, I felt lucky that FAU gave us the opportunities. They didn't have to. But TOs are a part of the game.

On that QB fumble, he dropped the ball without even being touched by a Rice defender. So that wasn't a forced error. That was just the FAU QB making a horrible play.

(07-27-2014 10:16 AM)Ragu Wrote:  On that QB fumble, he dropped the ball without even being touched by a Rice defender. So that wasn't a forced error. That was just the FAU QB making a horrible play.

I don't remember the details, but in the play by play, it was listed as a 10 yard sack and 7 yard return. All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

(07-27-2014 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

What was the other Rice fan doing?

(07-27-2014 10:33 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

What was the other Rice fan doing?

He had left, to beat the traffic.

(07-27-2014 10:35 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:33 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

What was the other Rice fan doing?

He had left, to beat the traffic.

Glad you knew I was kidding.

(07-27-2014 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:16 AM)Ragu Wrote:  On that QB fumble, he dropped the ball without even being touched by a Rice defender. So that wasn't a forced error. That was just the FAU QB making a horrible play.

I don't remember the details, but in the play by play, it was listed as a 10 yard sack and 7 yard return. All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

They have to credit somebody even if the QB drops the ball. It's the same as crediting a player in basketball for a basket if another guy tips the ball into his own team's basket...

I remember it clearly. The QB flat out dropped the ball without even being touched by a Rice defender. It was a very fortunate play for Rice.

(07-27-2014 10:39 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:35 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:33 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

What was the other Rice fan doing?

He had left, to beat the traffic.

Glad you knew I was kidding.

yeah, no sense getting mad.

(07-27-2014 11:00 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 10:16 AM)Ragu Wrote:  On that QB fumble, he dropped the ball without even being touched by a Rice defender. So that wasn't a forced error. That was just the FAU QB making a horrible play.

I don't remember the details, but in the play by play, it was listed as a 10 yard sack and 7 yard return. All I remember is the ball bouncing loose and me pointing at it like the players needed my directions to find it.

They have to credit somebody even if the QB drops the ball. It's the same as crediting a player in basketball for a basket if another guy tips the ball into his own team's basket...

I remember it clearly. The QB flat out dropped the ball without even being touched by a Rice defender. It was a very fortunate play for Rice.

I'll take your word for it. We have won and lost games in the past like that. But a dropped ball, like a dropped pass or a missed block, is just not luck - there is an element of ability there. The luck may be found in the timing and location, and certainly in the bounce of the ball. If Rice hadn't kept the score close, it wouldn't have mattered, and certainly would be overlooked.

Since it was luck involved in the outcome when FAU loss was there any luck when FAU won? Was it luck that gave FAU 14 points without the offense being on the field vs USF?

Was it luck that caused Tulane to throw ints on 4 straight drives? The first coming while driving to go up 17...was it luck that FAU only had to go 73 yards to get 3 scores?

Was it also lucky for FAU their last 3 games came against schools with a combine 2 wins for the season?

Luck, bad or good...really doesn't make that much of a difference for this season when you are replacing more than half of the players involved in those outcomes. Replacing 3 of your front 7 and 3 of your defensive backfield from a team that defense was there strong point is why I asked the question...along with FAU winning 5 games vs teams with a total of 6 combine wins.

As far as luck...

we can look at 20 different plays in any game and say if it wasn't for luck. If he didn't slip...if the ball wasn't tipped, if the runner hadn't ran into the blocker, if the qb had only seen the wide open receiver and on and on and on. All of it part of the game

(07-26-2014 11:37 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I don't get the love affair with UNT from being picked #1 by the coaches in the West to all the bowl predictions

What am I missing? isn't this a team that only has 9 starters returning and losing their QB & Rb and must replace 6 of their front 7 on defense? And it's not like they are in a position of being a school that just reloads every year. We are talking about a program coming off a AWFUL downturn that won 6 or more games once in the last 9 years...last year.

So what am I missing? I will admit the only game I saw was their bowl game, I'm totally in the dark so there must be something to explain why a team losing so much is picked #1 in the west.

Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

(07-27-2014 11:48 AM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 11:37 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I don't get the love affair with UNT from being picked #1 by the coaches in the West to all the bowl predictions

What am I missing? isn't this a team that only has 9 starters returning and losing their QB & Rb and must replace 6 of their front 7 on defense? And it's not like they are in a position of being a school that just reloads every year. We are talking about a program coming off a AWFUL downturn that won 6 or more games once in the last 9 years...last year.

So what am I missing? I will admit the only game I saw was their bowl game, I'm totally in the dark so there must be something to explain why a team losing so much is picked #1 in the west.

Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

So that happened in 1 year of recruiting? In one year UNT went from a poor defensive team to a team that now has the talent to reload all their starters on the defensive line and 2 of 3 linebackers? Along with their starting offensive backfield? Seeing that type of turn around in one year is very rare for the bigboys that are stock piling the best of the best. I guess we will see if UNT is a rare G5 school that can build depth like that in one year of recruiting.

(07-27-2014 12:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 11:48 AM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 11:37 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I don't get the love affair with UNT from being picked #1 by the coaches in the West to all the bowl predictions

What am I missing? isn't this a team that only has 9 starters returning and losing their QB & Rb and must replace 6 of their front 7 on defense? And it's not like they are in a position of being a school that just reloads every year. We are talking about a program coming off a AWFUL downturn that won 6 or more games once in the last 9 years...last year.

So what am I missing? I will admit the only game I saw was their bowl game, I'm totally in the dark so there must be something to explain why a team losing so much is picked #1 in the west.

Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

So that happened in 1 year of recruiting? In one year UNT went from a poor defensive team to a team that now has the talent to reload all their starters on the defensive line and 2 of 3 linebackers? Along with their starting offensive backfield? Seeing that type of turn around in one year is very rare for the bigboys that are stock piling the best of the best. I guess we will see if UNT is a rare G5 school that can build depth like that in one year of recruiting.

+1000

(07-27-2014 12:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 11:48 AM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 11:37 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I don't get the love affair with UNT from being picked #1 by the coaches in the West to all the bowl predictions

What am I missing? isn't this a team that only has 9 starters returning and losing their QB & Rb and must replace 6 of their front 7 on defense? And it's not like they are in a position of being a school that just reloads every year. We are talking about a program coming off a AWFUL downturn that won 6 or more games once in the last 9 years...last year.

So what am I missing? I will admit the only game I saw was their bowl game, I'm totally in the dark so there must be something to explain why a team losing so much is picked #1 in the west.

Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

So that happened in 1 year of recruiting? In one year UNT went from a poor defensive team to a team that now has the talent to reload all their starters on the defensive line and 2 of 3 linebackers? Along with their starting offensive backfield? Seeing that type of turn around in one year is very rare for the bigboys that are stock piling the best of the best. I guess we will see if UNT is a rare G5 school that can build depth like that in one year of recruiting.

1 year? Try 3. Recruiting is not a per-year basis but a long-game.

(07-27-2014 12:28 PM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 12:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 11:48 AM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 11:37 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I don't get the love affair with UNT from being picked #1 by the coaches in the West to all the bowl predictions

What am I missing? isn't this a team that only has 9 starters returning and losing their QB & Rb and must replace 6 of their front 7 on defense? And it's not like they are in a position of being a school that just reloads every year. We are talking about a program coming off a AWFUL downturn that won 6 or more games once in the last 9 years...last year.

So what am I missing? I will admit the only game I saw was their bowl game, I'm totally in the dark so there must be something to explain why a team losing so much is picked #1 in the west.

Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

So that happened in 1 year of recruiting? In one year UNT went from a poor defensive team to a team that now has the talent to reload all their starters on the defensive line and 2 of 3 linebackers? Along with their starting offensive backfield? Seeing that type of turn around in one year is very rare for the bigboys that are stock piling the best of the best. I guess we will see if UNT is a rare G5 school that can build depth like that in one year of recruiting.

1 year? Try 3. Recruiting is not a per-year basis but a long-game.

Correct but my point is this stock pile of talent UNT has didn't show up till their first year in CUSA and when most were Sr's. So if this talent was at UNT for 3 years.....

why did it take so long to show up?

(07-27-2014 11:40 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Since it was luck involved in the outcome when FAU loss was there any luck when FAU won? Was it luck that gave FAU 14 points without the offense being on the field vs USF?

Was it luck that caused Tulane to throw ints on 4 straight drives? The first coming while driving to go up 17...was it luck that FAU only had to go 73 yards to get 3 scores?

Was it also lucky for FAU their last 3 games came against schools with a combine 2 wins for the season?

Luck, bad or good...really doesn't make that much of a difference for this season when you are replacing more than half of the players involved in those outcomes. Replacing 3 of your front 7 and 3 of your defensive backfield from a team that defense was there strong point is why I asked the question...along with FAU winning 5 games vs teams with a total of 6 combine wins.

As far as luck...

we can look at 20 different plays in any game and say if it wasn't for luck. If he didn't slip...if the ball wasn't tipped, if the runner hadn't ran into the blocker, if the qb had only seen the wide open receiver and on and on and on. All of it part of the game

Did you even see the play I talked about? I highly doubt it. There is a big difference between the defense making a play and the QB flat out dropping the fricken ball....

(07-27-2014 12:31 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 12:28 PM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 12:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 11:48 AM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-26-2014 11:37 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I don't get the love affair with UNT from being picked #1 by the coaches in the West to all the bowl predictions

What am I missing? isn't this a team that only has 9 starters returning and losing their QB & Rb and must replace 6 of their front 7 on defense? And it's not like they are in a position of being a school that just reloads every year. We are talking about a program coming off a AWFUL downturn that won 6 or more games once in the last 9 years...last year.

So what am I missing? I will admit the only game I saw was their bowl game, I'm totally in the dark so there must be something to explain why a team losing so much is picked #1 in the west.

Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

So that happened in 1 year of recruiting? In one year UNT went from a poor defensive team to a team that now has the talent to reload all their starters on the defensive line and 2 of 3 linebackers? Along with their starting offensive backfield? Seeing that type of turn around in one year is very rare for the bigboys that are stock piling the best of the best. I guess we will see if UNT is a rare G5 school that can build depth like that in one year of recruiting.

1 year? Try 3. Recruiting is not a per-year basis but a long-game.

Correct but my point is this stock pile of talent UNT has didn't show up till their first year in CUSA and when most were Sr's. So if this talent was at UNT for 3 years.....

why did it take so long to show up?

It didn't just show up last year. There had been spurts of greatness in each of the two years previously.

I credit it to the complete synchronous mindset the coaches (some of them newer) had with the players, especially DC John Skladany. That took time to establish and last year was a perfect storm, firing on all cylinders in most of our games.

Now, last season is considered the case study for what UNT success can be. The coaching staff is largely the same and in other positions upgraded from departures of personnel who arguably got better positions at higher institutions based off their success. The factors of stability, like-minded game plans across all personnel, and a recruiting pattern that has been on an upswing would, in my mind, point to a continued streak of success. Reloaded, not rebuilt in any fashion.

The rest of the CUSA coaches seem to agree and probably count the same positives among UTSA and Rice.

(07-27-2014 02:45 PM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 12:31 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 12:28 PM)fussbudget Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 12:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 11:48 AM)fussbudget Wrote:  Because we now ARE a team that reloads. Our system is made for it. Our recruits prove it.

On the defense, we rotate a lot of players constantly. Not many people truly realize how much experience we're getting back here.

Simply put, the Mean Green are unrecognizable from any of its iterations you all experienced during the Belt years.

So that happened in 1 year of recruiting? In one year UNT went from a poor defensive team to a team that now has the talent to reload all their starters on the defensive line and 2 of 3 linebackers? Along with their starting offensive backfield? Seeing that type of turn around in one year is very rare for the bigboys that are stock piling the best of the best. I guess we will see if UNT is a rare G5 school that can build depth like that in one year of recruiting.

1 year? Try 3. Recruiting is not a per-year basis but a long-game.

Correct but my point is this stock pile of talent UNT has didn't show up till their first year in CUSA and when most were Sr's. So if this talent was at UNT for 3 years.....

why did it take so long to show up?

It didn't just show up last year. There had been spurts of greatness in each of the two years previously.

I credit it to the complete synchronous mindset the coaches (some of them newer) had with the players, especially DC John Skladany. That took time to establish and last year was a perfect storm, firing on all cylinders in most of our games.

Now, last season is considered the case study for what UNT success can be. The coaching staff is largely the same and in other positions upgraded from departures of personnel who arguably got better positions at higher institutions based off their success. The factors of stability, like-minded game plans across all personnel, and a recruiting pattern that has been on an upswing would, in my mind, point to a continued streak of success. Reloaded, not rebuilt in any fashion.

The rest of the CUSA coaches seem to agree and probably count the same positives among UTSA and Rice.

I'm not saying you and the coaches aren't correct...

but after years of watching UNT being way down and then seeing a Sr dominated team becomes a good team I just think it might have more to do with the Sr's than the build.

I guess 90-120 days from now we will know the answer to that