considering the academic prestige of cal poly, would they even be interested in this setup?

(07-23-2014 05:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Every time FBS expands it becomes less prestigious to be an FBS school. If this move were to happen it would only make the P5 more likely to say "F**K this s**t".

Personally I think there are too many teams in FBS as things stand now and would prefer to see less than 100 teams at the highest level of CFB.

How much is a saturation point? As it is, schools steeped in tradition with decades of play, some at a major conference level with major accomplishments, are marginalized and told they aren't good enough to play with the Big Boys and the masses simply oblige because the media and modern day rules/structures (e.g. BCS automatic qualifying) tell them to.

Though there are many righteous answers (e.g. publicity, dreaming big, etc...), it still has to be rhetorically asked what's the point of moving up if even long time programs have not moved into the penthouse.

(07-23-2014 05:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Every time FBS expands it becomes less prestigious to be an FBS school. If this move were to happen it would only make the P5 more likely to say "F**K this s**t".

Personally I think there are too many teams in FBS as things stand now and would prefer to see less than 100 teams at the highest level of CFB.

How much is a saturation point? As it is, schools steeped in tradition with decades of play, some at a major conference level with major accomplishments, are marginalized and told they aren't good enough to play with the Big Boys and the masses simply oblige because the media and modern day rules/structures (e.g. BCS automatic qualifying) tell them to.

Though there are many righteous answers (e.g. publicity, dreaming big, etc...), it still has to be rhetorically asked what's the point of moving up if even long time programs have not moved into the penthouse.

it has less to do with market saturation and more to do with academic association.

If we were talking UC Davis, Cal Poly, the egghead eight, colgate, Emory, and the Ivy League, IMO they would be welcomed with open arms.

But Southern Utah & Northern Colorado? There is nothing of note that schools like that offer to the P5. Think like a university president.

It didn't mean market saturation per se so much as pure volume. It's not like college basketball, where the majors are still ogled and sometimes overhyped/rated, where a school can realistic make a name for itself in the NCAA Tournament, even if by a long shot. College football's top level has always been exclusive as far as who can realistically compete and with fringe schools (some who used to be power members) not even having much of a shot, what use is anyone else coming up and trying? Again, I say this rhetorically.

(07-23-2014 05:58 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Every time FBS expands it becomes less prestigious to be an FBS school. If this move were to happen it would only make the P5 more likely to say "F**K this s**t".

Personally I think there are too many teams in FBS as things stand now and would prefer to see less than 100 teams at the highest level of CFB.

How much is a saturation point? As it is, schools steeped in tradition with decades of play, some at a major conference level with major accomplishments, are marginalized and told they aren't good enough to play with the Big Boys and the masses simply oblige because the media and modern day rules/structures (e.g. BCS automatic qualifying) tell them to.

Though there are many righteous answers (e.g. publicity, dreaming big, etc...), it still has to be rhetorically asked what's the point of moving up if even long time programs have not moved into the penthouse.

it has less to do with market saturation and more to do with academic association.

If we were talking UC Davis, Cal Poly, the egghead eight, colgate, Emory, and the Ivy League, IMO they would be welcomed with open arms.

But Southern Utah & Northern Colorado? There is nothing of note that schools like that offer to the P5. Think like a university president.

Message board chatter.

Reality.

It has more to do with money not academic. Those teams would not be welcomed to FBS because no one would watch them.

NO teams are going to be moving up to fbs and no G5 conference is foolish to try and add anyone right now. There is already to much tension.

(07-23-2014 06:10 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It didn't mean market saturation per se so much as pure volume. It's not like college basketball, where the majors are still ogled and sometimes overhyped/rated, where a school can realistic make a name for itself in the NCAA Tournament, even if by a long shot. College football's top level has always been exclusive as far as who can realistically compete and with fringe schools (some who used to be power members) not even having much of a shot, what use is anyone else coming up and trying? Again, I say this rhetorically.

how do you disagree with my original post while at the same time agreeing with my talking point?

The only way I see the Big Sky moving up en masse is for the Mountain West to balloon to 16 and then split.

New Conference

Hawaii
Sacramento State
Portland State
San Diego State
Fresno State
Nevada
UNLV
San Jose State


Mountain West

Utah State
New Mexico
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
Boise State
Montana
Montana State

The old MWC would lose California, but could pull off something like BYU-UTEP-North Texas-Rice (or UTSA) to get to 12 schools. The Dakotas and Dakota States could also be in play.

The new conference, essentially the reincarnation of Big West football, could go after some combination of UC Davis, Cal Poly, Idaho, Eastern Washington, and Weber State to get to 12. BYU could also elect to go with the new conference since it largely mirrors the WCC, and hits most of the major markets in California and Oregon.

Hawaii would have to be an all sports member of the Mountain West for five years to facilitate this Big East-style split.

The Big Sky will essentially be down to Northern Colorado, Northern Arizona, Southern Utah, Idaho State, and the losers of the FBS lottery. It may be easier for them to invite the new FBS conference as a group before leaving the Big Sky themselves for the WAC. Alternatively, the Big Sky could strip the WAC down to Seattle and Bakersfield, and the WAC gets the new FBS conference.

What the Big Sky and CAA hopefuls need to do is use the WAC's "former FBS conference" exemption to upgrade their FCS programs. Buy the conference from its current occupiers if necessary, and do it before the P5/G5 notice that they didn't put a time limit on how long a former FBS conference can bring in FCS teams to re-stock their numbers.

As unlikely as that scheme would be to pull off, it's the only one that doesn't require hoping that the P5/G5 will make a rule change against their own self-interests.

(07-23-2014 06:19 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  NO teams are going to be moving up to fbs and no G5 conference is foolish to try and add anyone right now. There is already to much tension.

I think the Sun Belt would take a 12th if they could get who they wanted (James Madison or Missouri St. most likely). The MAC might go to 14 with the right members (James Madison, Missouri St. or Delaware). I don't think the AAC or MWC see any benefit in going beyond 12 (or more specifically 11 full + 1 partial). Can't imagine anyone in FCS being more attractive to CUSA if they go to 16 than MAC or Sun Belt members. So the additions would be limited, but there are some possibilities.

(07-23-2014 07:48 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  What the Big Sky and CAA hopefuls need to do is use the WAC's "former FBS conference" exemption to upgrade their FCS programs. Buy the conference from its current occupiers if necessary, and do it before the P5/G5 notice that they didn't put a time limit on how long a former FBS conference can bring in FCS teams to re-stock their numbers.

As unlikely as that scheme would be to pull off, it's the only one that doesn't require hoping that the P5/G5 will make a rule change against their own self-interests.

Too late for that. They only had 2 years.

I don't have a crystal ball just tried to figure out what these commissioners are talking about. I doubt a limit needs to be placed on FBS. Alabama does not want to be associated with the wretched G5 schools. The G5 Schools do not want to be associated with the wretched FCS programs.

I am know expert on these schools neither is the public.
Northern Arizona or Northern Illinois
Wyoming or North Dakota
Any of these schools if committed can succeed two already have. Why would UND not be able to afford FBS ? They sponsor 21 sports and make money off of hockey. UC-Davis 28 sports sponsored . Adding 44 scholarships should be no big deal. [/u]

(07-23-2014 04:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The P5 already thinks FBS is too watered down as it is. Why would they want to add another 20 teams?

Mostly true, except that I don't think the P5 care much at all how many lower-FBS teams there are. So I certainly don't see them running out to rewrite the rules-for-transitioning-to-FBS so that Montana and Montana State can join Idaho and Boise State.

The argument is that the P5--especially the PAC--need G5 opponents. But planes exist and long road trips are a problem for the G5 road team. FBS just added ODU, App State, G-State, G-Southern, UTSA and Texas State and UMAss. Plus South Alabama not that long ago. I don't think there's a shortage of body-bag teams to play body-bag games.

(07-23-2014 06:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:58 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Every time FBS expands it becomes less prestigious to be an FBS school. If this move were to happen it would only make the P5 more likely to say "F**K this s**t".

Personally I think there are too many teams in FBS as things stand now and would prefer to see less than 100 teams at the highest level of CFB.

How much is a saturation point? As it is, schools steeped in tradition with decades of play, some at a major conference level with major accomplishments, are marginalized and told they aren't good enough to play with the Big Boys and the masses simply oblige because the media and modern day rules/structures (e.g. BCS automatic qualifying) tell them to.

Though there are many righteous answers (e.g. publicity, dreaming big, etc...), it still has to be rhetorically asked what's the point of moving up if even long time programs have not moved into the penthouse.

it has less to do with market saturation and more to do with academic association.

If we were talking UC Davis, Cal Poly, the egghead eight, colgate, Emory, and the Ivy League, IMO they would be welcomed with open arms.

But Southern Utah & Northern Colorado? There is nothing of note that schools like that offer to the P5. Think like a university president.

Message board chatter.

Reality.

It has more to do with money not academic. Those teams would not be welcomed to FBS because no one would watch them.

remember: think like a university president. there is nothing money wise that the top FCS schools add that would be significant in any way shape or form. In fact the money argument only furthers my points because academic schools most likely have better name brand recognition than the best FCS schools.

Considering only 5 G5 conferences signed the new Playoff deal, I don't think a new league can come in and claim their own share of that money.

No matter what the Big Sky thinks they can do.

(07-24-2014 05:45 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Considering only 5 G5 conferences signed the new Playoff deal, I don't think a new league can come in and claim their own share of that money.

No matter what the Big Sky thinks they can do.

I agree with that but why do they have to?

The Big Sky could just choose no stipends.

(07-24-2014 06:08 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 05:45 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Considering only 5 G5 conferences signed the new Playoff deal, I don't think a new league can come in and claim their own share of that money.

No matter what the Big Sky thinks they can do.

I agree with that but why do they have to?

The Big Sky could just choose no stipends.

They'd have to get the approval of the other G5 league to profit in the TV contract and Playoff moneys. Something tells me there is no chance in hades of that happening.

My guess is that they will offer a stipend and simply settle for trying to become a clear best of the FCS, and then maybe they could move up one day if a current G5 league falls apart.

The actual schools mentioned as candidates have revenue equal or greater than the SBC Average.
Idaho is fifth in the Big Sky counting its football only members.

Idaho is fourth in the SBC revenue wise.
The conferences have media deals that are close.
I would assume a move to FBS would increase revenue for all the move up teams.

I don't like the silly arguing some do on message boards.
I like hearing others opinions even if I disagree.
So I'm not trying to argue but why pay a stipend if FCS ?
The playoff money is hush money mostly eaten up by the changes moving forward. The unforeseen consequences are risky.

I don't think anyone will move down just continue to tread water like the P5 like. I see G5 media deals getting worse on average.
Competing with all the P5 conference networks and each other for Tuesday games.

I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.

(07-24-2014 09:00 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.

You cant move up to FBS without a conference home. That's already a rule.