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"The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
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Chipdip2 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 01:39 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 08:05 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  A decade ago Central's program was in much worse shape than ours. They hired a proven winner as head coach (Kelly), increased their win total in first year, had winning season the next, won MAC and a bowl his third.

Eastern seems to be following that paradigm.

We didn't.

You act like WMU didn't pursue this type... they did. You know that. It didn't work out. Those candidates didn't want to come here. And as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather hire someone that wants to be here. Besides, this argument is almost 2 years old. It's time to let that crap go and move on.

I suspect guys like Martin and Creighton thought they were going to get some big offers at some point, so IF WMU spoke to them, they likely took a pass waiting for something better to come along, not because they felt BC got slighted. This is business. Coaches don't pass up an opportunity because of old acquaintances. I highly doubt that Martin and Creighton were holding out for the likes of Miami and EMU. Some times a reality check is required before the ego takes a backseat to what's actually available to you.
07-19-2014 01:48 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #22
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
No they don't pass up opportunities, especially growth ones. In fact they reach out to the predecessor. Most of those guys are cognizant of the fact that you need to be nice on the way up, you might need them on the way down.

I'm wondering if they were approached even, and if they were how good was the pitch?
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 01:53 PM by DesertBronco.)
07-19-2014 01:52 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 01:52 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  No they don't pass up opportunities, especially growth ones. In fact they reach out to the predecessor. Most of those guys are cognizant of the fact that you need to be nice on the way up, you might need them on the way down.

I'm wondering if they were approached even, and if they were how good was the pitch?

I believe they didn't approach either Creighton or Martin. I think they wanted to go with a younger coach (they offered Lester, before Dunn nixed it). I suspect the offered Diaco, but he was already getting courted by UConn. I suspect KB and Dunn were looking at UT, and their coaches success, rather than at Pete Lembo's success (which in my opinion had more to do with inheriting talent than people want to admit).

The perfect storm for me would have been for Cubit to retire after his last bowl appearance and for us to have hired Scott Schafer. We can dream.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 02:04 PM by Chipdip2.)
07-19-2014 02:01 PM
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Doo Offline
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Post: #24
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
FWIW.... WMU didn't pursue Creighton....I'm doubting he was even discussed. Martin had some feelers sent his way...but didn't return interest.
07-19-2014 02:37 PM
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Doo Offline
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Post: #25
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
Creighton isn't the second coming of Lombardi. But too many poo poo him for being what is a glorified D3 coach. He'll bring a lot of respect to EMU but not insane numbers.

EMU wanted a successful current HC not in retread status. That made lower level guys targets.

Clarifying my point from earlier...MAC ADs have a lot to gain professionally hiring a "unique" coaching talent. If they succeed that means BCS job. Not worth hiring a career .600 coach.
07-19-2014 02:50 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #26
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 02:50 PM)Doo Wrote:  Creighton isn't the second coming of Lombardi. But too many poo poo him for being what is a glorified D3 coach. He'll bring a lot of respect to EMU but not insane numbers.

EMU wanted a successful current HC not in retread status. That made lower level guys targets.

Clarifying my point from earlier...MAC ADs have a lot to gain professionally hiring a "unique" coaching talent. If they succeed that means BCS job. Not worth hiring a career .600 coach.

As opposed to a career .000 (now .083) coach?

Last time a Western FB coach moved up was 1922.

Al Molde could have if he had a chance to win here with the resources we have now.

Ask Kimbo.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 03:25 PM by MajorHoople.)
07-19-2014 03:05 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #27
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 02:37 PM)Doo Wrote:  FWIW.... WMU didn't pursue Creighton....I'm doubting he was even discussed. Martin had some feelers sent his way...but didn't return interest.

No, Creighton wasn't discussed - maybe we find out that was a faux pas in near future.

Martin told AD "he wasn't ready to be a MAC HC" yet - then a year later takes Miami job.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 03:10 PM by MajorHoople.)
07-19-2014 03:09 PM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #28
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 02:50 PM)Doo Wrote:  Creighton isn't the second coming of Lombardi. But too many poo poo him for being what is a glorified D3 coach. He'll bring a lot of respect to EMU but not insane numbers.

EMU wanted a successful current HC not in retread status. That made lower level guys targets.

Clarifying my point from earlier...MAC ADs have a lot to gain professionally hiring a "unique" coaching talent. If they succeed that means BCS job. Not worth hiring a career .600 coach.

^I like this guy. We've had our differences these past few days, but you seem to get it.

Doo - I still want to know the answer to Dip's question... How did you hear about this place?
07-19-2014 04:42 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #29
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
Quote:Doo - I still want to know the answer to Dip's question... How did you hear about this place?

I think this outta clear that up for you pronto.
07-19-2014 04:56 PM
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Cant make this sh t up Offline
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Post: #30
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 08:05 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  A decade ago Central's program was in much worse shape than ours. They hired a proven winner as head coach (Kelly), increased their win total in first year, had winning season the next, won MAC and a bowl his third.

Eastern seems to be following that paradigm.

We didn't.

That was the decade that Cubit was at WMU, and not recruiting West Michigan or Michigan for that matter. Sunny Florida is all he had on his mind.
07-19-2014 05:29 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #31
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 05:29 PM)Cant make this sh t up Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 08:05 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  A decade ago Central's program was in much worse shape than ours. They hired a proven winner as head coach (Kelly), increased their win total in first year, had winning season the next, won MAC and a bowl his third.

Eastern seems to be following that paradigm.

We didn't.

That was the decade that Cubit was at WMU, and not recruiting West Michigan or Michigan for that matter. Sunny Florida is all he had on his mind.

Hey CMTSU, welcome to the Stampede! How'd you hear about this board?
07-19-2014 05:33 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 04:56 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  
Quote:Doo - I still want to know the answer to Dip's question... How did you hear about this place?

I think this outta clear that up for you pronto.

Or it could have been here

How to
07-19-2014 05:34 PM
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Cant make this sh t up Offline
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Post: #33
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 05:33 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 05:29 PM)Cant make this sh t up Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 08:05 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  A decade ago Central's program was in much worse shape than ours. They hired a proven winner as head coach (Kelly), increased their win total in first year, had winning season the next, won MAC and a bowl his third.

Eastern seems to be following that paradigm.

We didn't.

That was the decade that Cubit was at WMU, and not recruiting West Michigan or Michigan for that matter. Sunny Florida is all he had on his mind.

Hey CMTSU, welcome to the Stampede! How'd you hear about this board?

Was drinking heavily one night, and stumbled onto it while trying to by some underwear on craigs list. Thank God this site came up instead.
07-19-2014 05:43 PM
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Cant make this sh t up Offline
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Post: #34
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
By the way, no recruit in hell is going to YPSI! If they are its because no one else has offered them.
07-19-2014 05:44 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 05:29 PM)Cant make this sh t up Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 08:05 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  A decade ago Central's program was in much worse shape than ours. They hired a proven winner as head coach (Kelly), increased their win total in first year, had winning season the next, won MAC and a bowl his third.

Eastern seems to be following that paradigm.

We didn't.

That was the decade that Cubit was at WMU, and not recruiting West Michigan or Michigan for that matter. Sunny Florida is all he had on his mind.

True to a certain extent.

Cubit got some solid players out of MI. Phil Swanson, the O'Neills, Tre Bishop, Potter, Jamarko Simmons, Greg Marshall, Mitch Zajack and a few others.

I think he got a lot of the MI kids he wanted, but I believe he felt he could get better talent in Illinois, Ohio, and FL, and he may have been right. Hiller and White were from Ohio, and it's a long list of solid producers out of Florida.

Cubit had an edge in FL that few MAC coaches had. They had to fly there, get a hotel, rent a car, etc. While that's in most MAC recruiting budgets these days, they can't do it for extended periods of time.

Cubit had a house there and family there. He could stay there longer than most coaches, and he had the time to build relationships with coaches and players that other MAC coaches couldn't. Some will say, he should have been doing the same thing in MI, but at the time it was probably the right move, because fewer midmajors were recruiting FL, and the level of talent there particularly at skill positions was exponentially better than what was available in MI. He was recruiting Florida in the 90's long before it was fashionable. His relationship with Coach Bertani at North Miami produced a lot of talent for WMU.

I can't fault him for recruiting FL. But I think the competition down there has stiffened among mid majors. The perception (right or wrong) that WMU wasn't interested in MI kids was already established. I think had he stayed he likely would have been recruiting FL a bit less than he had before, but I think he would have had continued success recruiting the Midwest had that become more of is focus.

I do think that he and Ryan were doing the bulk of the quality recruiting the last few years, and his staff was not really getting it done (might have been attributed to the lack of continuity, and the East Coast influence on the staff). I don't think the staff the last few years had built relationships in the Midwest, they were east coast guys. BC and Jr. were focused on FL.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 06:12 PM by Chipdip2.)
07-19-2014 06:10 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #36
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 05:34 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 04:56 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  
Quote:Doo - I still want to know the answer to Dip's question... How did you hear about this place?

I think this outta clear that up for you pronto.

Or it could have been here

How to

Thanks for proving my point. Why I posed the same question. Whoosh.
07-19-2014 06:21 PM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #37
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
It's curious why he/she hasn't answered that question yet though...
07-19-2014 06:26 PM
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Cant make this sh t up Offline
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Post: #38
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
Chip Dip, sorry brother our post was getting to long...

I guess I just like the 6 hour radius that Fleck establishes for the "majority" of our recruits. This is not a Fleck thing either. Many schools particularly schools in smaller DI conference like the MAC are successful at this. They want families to be close enough to support their sons by coming to games. By recruiting in 6 hr radius you also potentially could increase your "fan base". For instance I live in GR so I know a lot about West Michigan recruits. GR people, especially WMU alumni will start coming back to games if they are familiar with local kids that they have followed in HS. For me it will be VanDort, Keenoy, Wassink, Renda, Henry, Currie, Quinn, Terry, and Sueing. Just throwing that out there 04-rock
07-19-2014 06:40 PM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #39
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 06:40 PM)Cant make this sh t up Wrote:  I guess I just like the 6 hour radius that Fleck establishes for the "majority" of our recruits. This is not a Fleck thing either. Many schools particularly schools in smaller DI conference like the MAC are successful at this. They want families to be close enough to support their sons by coming to games. By recruiting in 6 hr radius you also potentially could increase your "fan base".

Unless you're Eastern Michigan... which brings us back full circle to the topic of this thread. COGS
07-19-2014 06:45 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #40
RE: "The Factory" manufacturers a new piece of equipment
(07-19-2014 06:26 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  It's curious why he/she hasn't answered that question yet though...

Here. I'll sign on with that ID and answer it for you when I get home, ok?
07-19-2014 06:59 PM
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