(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

Lol Congress probably will. They'll point and say "Look we finally did something for our constituency!!! We gave money to the state schools!"

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

Exactly.....people keep grasping at straws. Losing tax exmpt status, anti-trust suits, Congress intervention etc. is not going to save the day. One way or another the P5 will get their way. It is what it is.

And saying they should negotiate better? LOL

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

You are correct for academics but not academics. Also to limit risk many athletic programs are legally their own entity. The schools wouldn't loose it but the athletic revenue would


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(07-15-2014 07:27 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

You are correct for academics but not academics. Also to limit risk many athletic programs are legally their own entity. The schools wouldn't loose it but the athletic revenue would


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I assume you meant athletics are not tax exempt. Again, not true. The athletics are just a arm of the university. The fact is, athletics LOSE money for most schools. Since you don't pay taxes if you dont make money---the tax issue is irrelevant for most P5 schools. Even if the school makes money, that excess money is funneled back to the university and used for academic purposes. Like I said, athletics are just another arm of the university. The schools are tax exempt.

i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

(07-15-2014 05:37 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

Exactly.....people keep grasping at straws. Losing tax exmpt status, anti-trust suits, Congress intervention etc. is not going to save the day. One way or another the P5 will get their way. It is what it is.

And saying they should negotiate better? LOL

The tax issue is not real. The anti trust collusion issue is viable in my opinion. There is little argument that the P5 would be colluding to limit the supply of D1 games to a smaller group of schools. Maybe the G5 wins that case---maybe they lose it---but there is a legitimate argument to be made there.

(07-15-2014 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 07:27 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

You are correct for academics but not academics. Also to limit risk many athletic programs are legally their own entity. The schools wouldn't loose it but the athletic revenue would


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

I assume you meant athletics are not tax exempt. Again, not true. The athletics are just a arm of the university. The fact is, athletics LOSE money for most schools. Since you don't pay taxes if you dont make money---the tax issue is irrelevant for most P5 schools. Even if the school makes money, that excess money is funneled back to the university and used for academic purposes. Like I said, athletics are just another arm of the university. The schools are tax exempt.

They are separate entities. For example Ucf is set up that way. Check out the Plancher case. It was a bad situation but there are tons of articles regarding. Ucfaa could be sued and the fact that Hitt was part of the board along with its ties to the state which they used as a means to limit the award. I believe if and fsu are set up that way as well


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(07-15-2014 08:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


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(07-15-2014 08:09 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

interesting that the big 12 with only 10 teams has and would have fewer votes...if it slimed down, then those few votes could become pretty important. i dont see the SEC forming an alliance with any other conference when it gets right down to it. who is gonna side with them, the big 12...dont understimate the hate of texas towards tamu. the acc would love to stick it to the SEC, their markets overlap. the big 10 and pac 10, forget it.

(07-15-2014 08:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:09 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

interesting that the big 12 with only 10 teams has and would have fewer votes...if it slimed down, then those few votes could become pretty important. i dont see the SEC forming an alliance with any other conference when it gets right down to it. who is gonna side with them, the big 12...dont understimate the hate of texas towards tamu. the acc would love to stick it to the SEC, their markets overlap. the big 10 and pac 10, forget it.

Yes the problem is that the b10 etc want to give academic based incentives which the b12 and sec would not benefit from


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(07-15-2014 08:28 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:09 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

interesting that the big 12 with only 10 teams has and would have fewer votes...if it slimed down, then those few votes could become pretty important. i dont see the SEC forming an alliance with any other conference when it gets right down to it. who is gonna side with them, the big 12...dont understimate the hate of texas towards tamu. the acc would love to stick it to the SEC, their markets overlap. the big 10 and pac 10, forget it.

Yes the problem is that the b10 etc want to give academic based incentives which the b12 and sec would not benefit from


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

it is gonna be funny to watch them turn on each other. they already have all the money, what else can they really do to us. what they can do is turn on each other. write it down, it will happen. how long will it be before schools like texas and alabama decide they want to be independent like notre dame. how long before texas gets sick of giving a cut to iowa state and michigan gets tired of subsidizing rutgers. this will be the next step, its the only logical conclusion.

(07-15-2014 08:46 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:28 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:09 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

interesting that the big 12 with only 10 teams has and would have fewer votes...if it slimed down, then those few votes could become pretty important. i dont see the SEC forming an alliance with any other conference when it gets right down to it. who is gonna side with them, the big 12...dont understimate the hate of texas towards tamu. the acc would love to stick it to the SEC, their markets overlap. the big 10 and pac 10, forget it.

Yes the problem is that the b10 etc want to give academic based incentives which the b12 and sec would not benefit from


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

it is gonna be funny to watch them turn on each other. they already have all the money, what else can they really do to us. what they can do is turn on each other. write it down, it will happen. how long will it be before schools like texas and alabama decide they want to be independent like notre dame. how long before texas gets sick of giving a cut to iowa state and michigan gets tired of subsidizing rutgers. this will be the next step, its the only logical conclusion.

You are right. The greed will not stop with the separation from the G5. People who are that greedy, their needs can never be quenched. They will turn on each other.

(07-15-2014 08:51 PM)Purplehook Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:46 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:28 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:09 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

interesting that the big 12 with only 10 teams has and would have fewer votes...if it slimed down, then those few votes could become pretty important. i dont see the SEC forming an alliance with any other conference when it gets right down to it. who is gonna side with them, the big 12...dont understimate the hate of texas towards tamu. the acc would love to stick it to the SEC, their markets overlap. the big 10 and pac 10, forget it.

Yes the problem is that the b10 etc want to give academic based incentives which the b12 and sec would not benefit from


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

it is gonna be funny to watch them turn on each other. they already have all the money, what else can they really do to us. what they can do is turn on each other. write it down, it will happen. how long will it be before schools like texas and alabama decide they want to be independent like notre dame. how long before texas gets sick of giving a cut to iowa state and michigan gets tired of subsidizing rutgers. this will be the next step, its the only logical conclusion.

You are right. The greed will not stop with the separation from the G5. People who are that greedy, their needs can never be quenched. They will turn on each other.

dont think it hasnt entered their minds already
what if bama left the SEC

(07-15-2014 08:46 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:28 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:09 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  i wonder if slive has considered the possibility that this could backfire on the SEC. What if 2 or 3 of the other conferences banded together and imposed rules detrimental to the SEC. I havent really thought about it much but something like raising the admissions standards for all of the p5 or making all conferences play the same number of ooc games. Limiting the number of OOC against the real powder puff teams. I wonder how long it will take for the big conferences to start turning on each other? True greed has no allies.

Well that's the argument some bloggers were making and part of the reason the voting thresholds are mentioned. If they are lowered the b10 PAC 12 and acc would have enough votes to pass legislation without the input of the sec/b12. Remember the alliances that were formed recently. They postulated that it may be another driver for expansion


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

interesting that the big 12 with only 10 teams has and would have fewer votes...if it slimed down, then those few votes could become pretty important. i dont see the SEC forming an alliance with any other conference when it gets right down to it. who is gonna side with them, the big 12...dont understimate the hate of texas towards tamu. the acc would love to stick it to the SEC, their markets overlap. the big 10 and pac 10, forget it.

Yes the problem is that the b10 etc want to give academic based incentives which the b12 and sec would not benefit from


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

it is gonna be funny to watch them turn on each other. they already have all the money, what else can they really do to us. what they can do is turn on each other. write it down, it will happen. how long will it be before schools like texas and alabama decide they want to be independent like notre dame. how long before texas gets sick of giving a cut to iowa state and michigan gets tired of subsidizing rutgers. this will be the next step, its the only logical conclusion.

They have the best of both worlds. By that I mean tx. Those schools want to anchor conferences so they have control. Remember tx has the lhn as well. There is safety in numbers for contracts etc. the networks need the other guys for content


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when P5 sets up it's ground rules, their gonna make it to the B-12 advantage to expand
their only 2 schools out there that would complete the P5
BYU & Conn

(07-15-2014 08:06 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 07:27 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

You are correct for academics but not academics. Also to limit risk many athletic programs are legally their own entity. The schools wouldn't loose it but the athletic revenue would


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

I assume you meant athletics are not tax exempt. Again, not true. The athletics are just a arm of the university. The fact is, athletics LOSE money for most schools. Since you don't pay taxes if you dont make money---the tax issue is irrelevant for most P5 schools. Even if the school makes money, that excess money is funneled back to the university and used for academic purposes. Like I said, athletics are just another arm of the university. The schools are tax exempt.

They are separate entities. For example Ucf is set up that way. Check out the Plancher case. It was a bad situation but there are tons of articles regarding. Ucfaa could be sued and the fact that Hitt was part of the board along with its ties to the state which they used as a means to limit the award. I believe if and fsu are set up that way as well


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

That may be true, but athletics still operates under the same umbrella entity as the university---otherwise you couldn't have student fees subsidizing the athletics department. Keep in mind--these are student athletes. These athletic teams are theoretically just organized university activities for the students. The larger point is I think its going to be virtually impossible to strip a school of its tax exempt status because its athletic department made money and transferred it back to the university that then used it to further its academic mission. I don't see it happening.

(07-15-2014 09:32 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  when P5 sets up it's ground rules, their gonna make it to the B-12 advantage to expand
their only 2 schools out there that would complete the P5
BYU & Conn

That's your opinion. Conn gets nowhere with the b12 until they fix FB. I still don't think they would take conn. Byu maybe but they have to make concessions. I don't see them giving up their tv network after their experience in the mwc


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(07-15-2014 07:27 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

You are correct for academics but not academics. Also to limit risk many athletic programs are legally their own entity. The schools wouldn't loose it but the athletic revenue would


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The NCAA is a tax exempt association, thereby making its associate members tax exempt with respect to sponsored sporting events. Very important if you charge admission to events, sell concessions, collect money for parking, and collect money from television; all income.

If you leave a tax exempt association, you lose tax exempt status for income derived from sporting events. All institutions who choose to leave NCAA will lose that tax exemption; plus IRS will not grant new tax exempt status due to preexisting income generated from television.

This is reality of situation. That's why Slive's and Delaney's comments are all hollow threats.

(07-15-2014 09:51 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 07:27 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 03:47 PM)Ghis Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:30 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  You can bet the P5 have an army of lawyers already working on how they can get this through as trouble free as they possibly can.

So tell me, how will their lawyers restore the tax exempt status the schools will lose after leaving NCAA?

Short answer: they won't. Hence, threat to leave and form own association is hollow and a non-starter. Slive and his cohorts need to stop their bull...t threats and negotiate better.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the schools tax exempt status. Most all were tax exempt educational entities from the start. Joining the NCAA doesn't make you tax exempt and leaving the NCAA doesn't make you lose your tax exempt status. There are all universities--most of which are government owned--their tax exempt status is not in danger.

You are correct for academics but not academics. Also to limit risk many athletic programs are legally their own entity. The schools wouldn't loose it but the athletic revenue would


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The NCAA is a tax exempt association, thereby making its associate members tax exempt with respect to sponsored sporting events. Very important if you charge admission to events, sell concessions, collect money for parking, and collect money from television; all income.

If you leave a tax exempt association, you lose tax exempt status for income derived from sporting events. All institutions who choose to leave NCAA will lose that tax exemption; plus IRS will not grant new tax exempt status due to preexisting income generated from television.

This is reality of situation. That's why Slive's and Delaney's comments are all hollow threats.

IMO they are not leaving the NCAA, just forming a seperate division.

However, if they do leave what is to stop them from forming another tax exempt organization.

Finally, all but about 20 of the the P5 schools athletic programs lose money and they could easly change that ....so what does the IRS tax, if none make a profit and are all losing money.....