(07-12-2014 05:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 10:22 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 09:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-11-2014 12:12 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(07-11-2014 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't think renaming them after cities is any better than being 'directional.'

I agree. But I don't think the names are the real problem anyways.

They aren't. There are actually a lot of non-flagship public schools in the P5 or at least ones that aren't the top public school. Mississippi State, Florida State, OK State, Iowa State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Oregon State, Louisville, Texas Tech, Purdue, etc.

There is no reason why a directional can't become P5, if it develops the underlying institutional and market fundamentals.

Mississippi State is a flagship it is the land grant university of Mississippi and always has been

OkState is the land grant university of Oklahoma and always has been and is a flagship

Iowa State is the land grant university of Iowa an always has been and is a flagship

NC State is the land grant university of North Carolina and is a flagship and always has been

VT is the land grant university of Virginia and is a flagship and always has been

Oregon State is the land grant university of Oregon and a flagship and always has been

Texas Tech is the flagship of the Texas Tech university system and always has been and again Texas is one of the few states (besides Louisiana and perhaps one or two others if that) which has more than 2 university systems.......just like UH is the flagship of the UH System and always has been

Purdue is the land grant university of Indiana and always has been and is a flagship

only Louisville and Free Shrimp would not qualify under any definition of a flagship and even Free Shrimp has been designated as a research university by The State of Florida and currently Florida (with a single university system and BOR) does not designate any university including FSU as a "Flagship"

there is no true definition of a flagship, but a land grant university established under the Morrill Act would definitely be a flagship as most on your list are.....the other would be a university that was established as the generally the oldest, largest and the PhD and professional program offering university of a specific system as Texas Tech is or as UH is

only Louisville and perhaps Free Shrimp U would not qualify under the accepted definition

Sorry, but none of those land grant universities above are flagships, not a single one.

I think you are confusing the notion of being a flagship of "something", which nobody cares about, with being THE flagship. E.g., here in Louisiana, Southern University- Baton Rouge is the flagship of something, the Southern University System. But it would be absurd to call it a "flagship" university in any general sense, which is the only sense that matters. For Louisiana, LSU is the state flagship school, which is the kind of flagship that the P5 care about.

So by the same token, schools like Texas Tech, VT, and NC State are obviously not flagships. None of the schools i mentioned are, since that term refers to state-wide leadership, not leadership of a self-contained "system".

while wiki is hardly the end all be all source of info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_State_University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_State_University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_St...Stillwater

http://catalog.ncsu.edu/undergraduate/aboutus/

As North Carolina’s flagship research intensive, community engaged land-grant university

http://www.msstate.edu/president/

It is my pleasure to welcome you to Mississippi State University, the state's largest university and its flagship research institution.

http://www.ttu.edu/administration/presid...graphy.php

As the flagship university of the Texas Tech University System

The San Jacinto campus is the flagship campus of the Houston Community College System. That doesn't make them a state flagship. Texas Tech is a flagship only in their own minds and their own little system (which until 3 or 4 years ago didn't stretch outside of Lubbock).

But I do agree with you about the rest.

If you want to talk about THE flagship, then in Texas, its UT. But A&M is also A flagship as the state's land grant university. The rest aren't, even if they have created little systems.

(07-12-2014 06:54 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 06:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 05:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  Who cares what anybody thinks is or is not a "flagship"? Basically, it's just a recent contrivance used by fans in their smack talk about their rivals. Twenty years ago, you never heard the term used.

May be new in sports usage with realignment, but its hardly a new term.

But definitely over used, especially by those that think it makes their program better than others. Another false barrier.

As a general rule the flagships have a statewide following while the rest tend to be regional. Non-aligned fans will also tend to follow one of the flagships.

That's not totally true, but it is mostly. Its a real barrier to other schools in the state.

Dumbest argument on csnbbs

you have the side that is correct arguing against a side that is correct but too dumb to apply logic.

I need a after reading this thread.

Fans of the Big 12 do not want any Florida additions not named FSU. The sooner ucf/usf fans can get that in their heads the less threads there will be on this topic.

(07-12-2014 08:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  The San Jacinto campus is the flagship campus of the Houston Community College System. That doesn't make them a state flagship. Texas Tech is a flagship only in their own minds and their own little system (which until 3 or 4 years ago didn't stretch outside of Lubbock).

But I do agree with you about the rest.

If you want to talk about THE flagship, then in Texas, its UT. But A&M is also A flagship as the state's land grant university. The rest aren't, even if they have created little systems.

You need to read up on the history of TAMU and UT. Both are Flagships of the State of Texas and one no more than the other except in the other's mind. The way they are funded, they way they were created (TAMU first) help to explain what they are today and the animus between the two.

(07-12-2014 08:58 PM)Groo Wrote:  Fans of the Big 12 do not want any Florida additions not named FSU. The sooner ucf/usf fans can get that in their heads the less threads there will be on this topic.

Doesn't matter what "fans" want. It comes down to if the Big 12 wants to expand. The rest of the P5 are not going to jump to the Big 12 no matter what the "fans" want. The AAC or BYU are really the only available options "if" the Big 12 wanted to expand.

UCF is clearly one of the favorites if expansion happens in the Big 12. We just beat your champ last year....

(07-12-2014 08:58 PM)Groo Wrote:  Fans of the Big 12 do not want any Florida additions not named FSU. The sooner ucf/usf fans can get that in their heads the less threads there will be on this topic.

The Big 12 is incapable of poaching a Florida school not named UCF, USF, FAU, or FIU. The sooner Big 12 fans get that in their heads the less BS I will have to read from Big 12 fans.

(07-12-2014 09:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 08:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  The San Jacinto campus is the flagship campus of the Houston Community College System. That doesn't make them a state flagship. Texas Tech is a flagship only in their own minds and their own little system (which until 3 or 4 years ago didn't stretch outside of Lubbock).

But I do agree with you about the rest.

If you want to talk about THE flagship, then in Texas, its UT. But A&M is also A flagship as the state's land grant university. The rest aren't, even if they have created little systems.

You need to read up on the history of TAMU and UT. Both are Flagships of the State of Texas and one no more than the other except in the other's mind. The way they are funded, they way they were created (TAMU first) help to explain what they are today and the animus between the two.

to be fair a large number of landgrants are the little brother state schools. still doesn't make them as prestigious as their big brothers.

(07-12-2014 08:58 PM)Groo Wrote:  Fans of the Big 12 do not want any Florida additions not named FSU. The sooner ucf/usf fans can get that in their heads the less threads there will be on this topic.

Awfully high and mighty, and incredibly myopic. Unfortunately for the fans of the B12 the reigning national champs can't and wouldn't be interested in leaving for the B12.

(07-12-2014 08:58 PM)Groo Wrote:  Fans of the Big 12 do not want any Florida additions not named FSU. The sooner ucf/usf fans can get that in their heads the less threads there will be on this topic.

And I can assure you that <1% of the fans of the teams hoping to join the BigXII want in the club in order to play Kansas, Iowa State, TCU, etc. It's about:
$ first,
Then Playing Texas/OU
.
.
Then playing OSU/Baylor/TT/WV
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else.

(07-12-2014 09:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 08:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  The San Jacinto campus is the flagship campus of the Houston Community College System. That doesn't make them a state flagship. Texas Tech is a flagship only in their own minds and their own little system (which until 3 or 4 years ago didn't stretch outside of Lubbock).

But I do agree with you about the rest.

If you want to talk about THE flagship, then in Texas, its UT. But A&M is also A flagship as the state's land grant university. The rest aren't, even if they have created little systems.

You need to read up on the history of TAMU and UT. Both are Flagships of the State of Texas and one no more than the other except in the other's mind. The way they are funded, they way they were created (TAMU first) help to explain what they are today and the animus between the two.

That may be technically true, but as someone who isn't from Texas and has no skin in the game, it is also obviously true that Texas, not TAMU, is the most prestigious public university in the state. It's the #1 school across the board, the true flagship, not TAMU.

And there's no question that, as awesome as TAMU is and what a fabulous addition to the SEC it is, had Texas wanted to join and for some reason the SEC could only take one of them, the SEC would have unhesitatingly taken Texas, not TAMU.

Fortunately we live in reality and not hypothetical world.

A&M had the balls to take a risk and get what it wanted while UT is content to be king of the anthill while telling themselves they're just too prestigious for the lowly SEC.

The Big 12 isn't expanding anytime in the near future. If they actually wanted to, they already would have. There is no reason for them not to have expanded and to have "debated" it all this time. The Big 12 has a different "future".

(07-12-2014 09:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 08:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  The San Jacinto campus is the flagship campus of the Houston Community College System. That doesn't make them a state flagship. Texas Tech is a flagship only in their own minds and their own little system (which until 3 or 4 years ago didn't stretch outside of Lubbock).

But I do agree with you about the rest.

If you want to talk about THE flagship, then in Texas, its UT. But A&M is also A flagship as the state's land grant university. The rest aren't, even if they have created little systems.

You need to read up on the history of TAMU and UT. Both are Flagships of the State of Texas and one no more than the other except in the other's mind. The way they are funded, they way they were created (TAMU first) help to explain what they are today and the animus between the two.

I'm fully aware. You are talking about things you are mostly ignorant about. A&M was a small all male military/ag school until the 60s that really wasn't very good except in Ag and Engineering fields where it did excel. Its made a lot of strides since then.

(07-12-2014 03:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 12:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  This whole argument is a disagreement on use of terms. A "directional school" would become a flagship school given the chance at the P5. The actual name doesn't matter. The state name or population doesn't matter. Acceptance matters. UCF/USF would blow up as a tandem deal, and a lot of P5 schools know it, hence the exclusionary tactics.

No. A directional school doesn't become a flagship just by being in the P5. ToddDodge is mostly correct. Every public school in the P5 is a flagship except for Louisville, Florida State AND Texas Tech.

Texas Tech is not considered a flagship in Texas. There wasn't even a Texas Tech "system" until they added their medical school. And they just recently added Angelo St. from the Texas St. system into their "system" so they now has 2 schools and a medical school. Houston isn't considered a flagship in Texas even though there are 3 other schools in their "system" anymore than Lamar University was considered a flagship when they had a 3 school system.

The normally accepted definition includes as flagships the historical leading liberal arts school and the land grant university, if that is a separate school (which as mentioned except in a few states like Ohio and Louisiana it is). Georgia is one exception in that UGA is the liberal arts and land grant school while Georgia Tech was set up as the engineering "flagship," or as referred to in Athens, "that trade school on North Avenue."

Who gives a rats rumpass? UCF is bigger than your state flagship U. No matter what state. UCF is the largest university in the nation.

How many are actually on main campus without including the 10 regional centers?

(07-13-2014 06:22 AM)UCF_SystemsEng Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 08:58 PM)Groo Wrote:  Fans of the Big 12 do not want any Florida additions not named FSU. The sooner ucf/usf fans can get that in their heads the less threads there will be on this topic.

And I can assure you that <1% of the fans of the teams hoping to join the BigXII want in the club in order to play Kansas, Iowa State, TCU, etc. It's about:
$ first,
Then Playing Texas/OU
.
.
Then playing OSU/Baylor/TT/WV
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else.

When did Baylor get in the "next level up" from TCU? There's a lot of dots between Baylor and the everyone else category you are putting TCU in.

(07-13-2014 07:08 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 03:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 12:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  This whole argument is a disagreement on use of terms. A "directional school" would become a flagship school given the chance at the P5. The actual name doesn't matter. The state name or population doesn't matter. Acceptance matters. UCF/USF would blow up as a tandem deal, and a lot of P5 schools know it, hence the exclusionary tactics.

No. A directional school doesn't become a flagship just by being in the P5. ToddDodge is mostly correct. Every public school in the P5 is a flagship except for Louisville, Florida State AND Texas Tech.

Texas Tech is not considered a flagship in Texas. There wasn't even a Texas Tech "system" until they added their medical school. And they just recently added Angelo St. from the Texas St. system into their "system" so they now has 2 schools and a medical school. Houston isn't considered a flagship in Texas even though there are 3 other schools in their "system" anymore than Lamar University was considered a flagship when they had a 3 school system.

The normally accepted definition includes as flagships the historical leading liberal arts school and the land grant university, if that is a separate school (which as mentioned except in a few states like Ohio and Louisiana it is). Georgia is one exception in that UGA is the liberal arts and land grant school while Georgia Tech was set up as the engineering "flagship," or as referred to in Athens, "that trade school on North Avenue."

Who gives a rats rumpass? UCF is bigger than your state flagship U. No matter what state. UCF is the largest university in the nation.

University of Phoenix? Are they a national flagship?

(07-13-2014 09:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-13-2014 07:08 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 03:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 12:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  This whole argument is a disagreement on use of terms. A "directional school" would become a flagship school given the chance at the P5. The actual name doesn't matter. The state name or population doesn't matter. Acceptance matters. UCF/USF would blow up as a tandem deal, and a lot of P5 schools know it, hence the exclusionary tactics.

No. A directional school doesn't become a flagship just by being in the P5. ToddDodge is mostly correct. Every public school in the P5 is a flagship except for Louisville, Florida State AND Texas Tech.

Texas Tech is not considered a flagship in Texas. There wasn't even a Texas Tech "system" until they added their medical school. And they just recently added Angelo St. from the Texas St. system into their "system" so they now has 2 schools and a medical school. Houston isn't considered a flagship in Texas even though there are 3 other schools in their "system" anymore than Lamar University was considered a flagship when they had a 3 school system.

The normally accepted definition includes as flagships the historical leading liberal arts school and the land grant university, if that is a separate school (which as mentioned except in a few states like Ohio and Louisiana it is). Georgia is one exception in that UGA is the liberal arts and land grant school while Georgia Tech was set up as the engineering "flagship," or as referred to in Athens, "that trade school on North Avenue."

Who gives a rats rumpass? UCF is bigger than your state flagship U. No matter what state. UCF is the largest university in the nation.

University of Phoenix? Are they a national flagship?

Ucf is no more like University of Phoenix than the University of Texas is. Every single University that I'm aware of has regional campuses. Including the University of Florida, and UT, so what's your point, don't those students who attend regional campuses count, or are you just jealous your school has three less regional campuses?