The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I shall start the official pre-season thread for all things yay or nay about our coach, recruiting, rumors, etc... This will hopefully be a go to for all of this in-fighting that seems to occur on EVERY OTHER THREAD...

I don't actually think this will work... but hey... its worth a try.

I will start with this:

I don't disagree with those who claim our program is headed in a good direction... I just disagree with anyone who thinks all of this will guarantee success on the football field. To me I need to see it to believe it. Right now we have a couple good recruiting classes with a third shaping up. We have a nice facility to train in and for use as a tool with recruits. We have a Coach who could sell $hit to a horse farmer and fan base that is itching for some wins... Only time will tell if Fleck can win with what he has put together.. My gut says we will be fine, but that it will take another year to really get going.

I don't think any single person here has ever said "guaranteed success".

I actually think I agree with everything you just said there flush.

My HOPE is that the claims of the program heading in a good direction are in fact correct. Like you said, I am 100% in the I need to see it to believe it camp right now. Allegedly the talent that is being recruited is a solid step. The only problem is the apparent mentality that this will instantly translate onto the field. In my opinion, 3 solid recruiting classes means it could be 2 more years before there is enough experience and contribution from these guys to really start to count. I'm not sure that I or those of us that are itching for some wins are going to be that patient. And I'm not sure I have much confidence that Fleck and staff have the ability to coach them up enough to live up to the lofty recruiting rankings.

Finally and maybe most importantly. I agree that its going to take another year or 2 to really get this going. But as I have stated multiple times in recent weeks. HOPING to compete for .500 when we came from a place where .500 wasn't acceptable just doesn't quite fly with me. Regardless of how much of a jump that might be from where we were last season. We have been sold the bill of goods about this become an ELITE program. I just don't think we have the patience to wait 4 or 5 years to see if that is the case.

Good thread. Let's hope all the beating of dead horses stays on this thread.

I am definitely in the wait and see mode. Good things have happened in the off season, but will it translate into wins? No matter what anyone wants to say, in the end it is the W/L record that matters most (barring any disastrous scandals, which WMU has been devoid of to date).

I'm pretty sure everyone in "Bronco Nation" is in wait and see mode and hoping for wins later on... why are we so stuck on this that we can't celebrate small victories along the way?

^There are no real victories (that count) until the team takes the field.

(06-24-2014 10:10 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I'm pretty sure everyone in "Bronco Nation" is in wait and see mode and hoping for wins later on... why are we so stuck on this that we can't celebrate small victories along the way?

I think everyone doesn't want to get all excited again to get the rug ripped from under us. It's the life of a bronco... get over-hyped in the off-season and ultimately let down during the season.

I've taken my time to get excited about the recruiting class, and the on-campus improvements to the football infrastructure... but I am not going to delude myself into hanging on to that as proof that things have turned around... Show me on the field and I shall be a believer.

(06-24-2014 10:13 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  ^There are no real victories (that count) until the team takes the field.

Incredibly short-sighted and small picture, but you're entitled to your opinion I suppose.

(06-24-2014 10:14 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 10:10 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I'm pretty sure everyone in "Bronco Nation" is in wait and see mode and hoping for wins later on... why are we so stuck on this that we can't celebrate small victories along the way?

I think everyone doesn't want to get all excited again to get the rug ripped from under us. It's the life of a bronco... get over-hyped in the off-season and ultimately let down during the season.

I've taken my time to get excited about the recruiting class, and the on-campus improvements to the football infrastructure... but I am not going to delude myself into hanging on to that as proof that things have turned around... Show me on the field and I shall be a believer.

Of course, but you have nobody to blame but yourself if you've set the expectations to an unrealistic level. I am not expecting an 8-win season and a MAC championship in 2014.

(06-24-2014 10:16 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 10:13 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  ^There are no real victories (that count) until the team takes the field.

Incredibly short-sighted and small picture, but you're entitled to your opinion I suppose.

The only victory is the victory on the field... otherwise your playing youth soccer and not keeping score. Come on now.. your better than that.

(06-24-2014 10:19 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 10:16 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 10:13 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  ^There are no real victories (that count) until the team takes the field.

Incredibly short-sighted and small picture, but you're entitled to your opinion I suppose.

The only victory is the victory on the field... otherwise your playing youth soccer and not keeping score. Come on now.. your better than that.

And how do you think you get to the point of fielding a team capable of winning on the field? Are we this simpleton that we don't understand there is a process for getting there?

Let me be clear here... I have stated a few things I dislike about fleck and a few things that I see are positive signs that the program is headed in a good direction. I have also stated that I refuse to get all dreamy eyed over the situation until I actually see the progress on the field. There is NOTHING wrong with that... I think there's more wrong with blindly following the rhetoric into a false sense of hope...

On the record, I was extremely supportive of the hire... not the way Cubit left, but the hire of Fleck. I went head to head with DB here for almost a year... a 1-11 season later and some ridiculous commentary that deflected most of the seasons problems from himself and I am just waiting. I am waiting to see if he can finally put it together on the field. Do I expect a winning season this year? No... Do I expect marked improvement and a competent team that I actually enjoy watching who can and does win some games... YES. The trend is definitely pointed up... but what that equates to with regard to fielding a TEAM... has yet to be shown.

(06-24-2014 10:16 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 10:13 AM)Broncobelt Wrote:  ^There are no real victories (that count) until the team takes the field.

Incredibly short-sighted and small picture, but you're entitled to your opinion I suppose.

Incredibly naïve, but like you say, we are all entitled to our opinions.

(06-24-2014 10:30 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I think there's more wrong with blindly following the rhetoric into a false sense of hope...

Speaking for myself -- but also presumably others -- find the phrase "blindly following" offensive.

Who is blindly following? I think the reasons for people supporting Fleck and his efforts are well documented and it is by no means "blindly following".

Is that your determination? Or is that the constant negativity/propaganda/rhetoric you are reading on this message from the same 3 or 4 posters starting to wear on you? As you said earlier, "I think you are better than that."

In other news, your thread seems to be working...

(06-24-2014 10:41 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 10:30 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I think there's more wrong with blindly following the rhetoric into a false sense of hope...

Speaking for myself -- but also presumably others -- find the phrase "blindly following" offensive.

Who is blindly following? I think the reasons for people supporting Fleck and his efforts are well documented and it is by no means "blindly following".

Is that your determination? Or is that the constant negativity/propaganda/rhetoric you are reading on this message from the same 3 or 4 posters starting to wear on you? As you said earlier, "I think you are better than that."

In other news, your thread seems to be working...

The thread is definitely catching on! I am not getting worn down by anyone here.. I mean BC basically just told me to get a life... I am wrapping up a project before heading up north MI for a golf vacation and I am filling my gaps with commentary about Fleck and the football program... I am just surprised that I haven't been slapped around here by DB in awhile... something doesn't seem right. Or maybe I am falling a little more in line with his way of thinking.... OH DEAR GOD NO!

I'm not slapping people around for the sport of it anymore, especially when they come across as such good people. I said that and meant it when I posted.

As far as the few sniveling babies who won't let the past go, and they know who they are, I'm here for them and won't be a punching bag.

Let the factions continue to argue!!

Promoting division among the fan base. DB on his moral high ground, at its finest. Go get 'em tough guy.

...and Pussky trying to get us to all line up like mindless lemmings behind his man-crush Coach Nero.

Keep at it, smart guy.

(06-24-2014 11:36 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Promoting division among the fan base. DB on his moral high ground, at its finest. Go get 'em tough guy.

How cow HJ, you sure take things at the extreme, I meant that as a poke at how divided things are while at the same time reiterativing that most in the WMU community are good folk.

But man, Hoople sure NAILED IT!!