(05-28-2014 09:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My contention and argument would begin with "abortions is not murder". That would be the start. I gauran damn tee you about 20% of people think that way and that INCLUDES the SOUTH. 40% of people in the SOUTH!!!! still think abortion should be legal in almost every case.

And? damn near 100% of people in the south and a sizable minority in the north used to think slavery was ok... This does *not* make it moral or right.

Quote:I hope we are all around in 10 years to look back on this very thread. D's are going to run on a woman's right of choice

But but but... I thought only the GOP was using Abortion as a vote gathering strategy...

This is so rare as to be a non starter .................

It still happens and just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't justify a group putting another family through emotional trauma. The sickest thing is the GOP elevated this social issue to win elections. Now they have to push these laws through state legislators to appease the Paul and BIE's of the world. They are now in the death throes of the movement. Some gurgles and twitching. They have mined some good intention0-ed people and they have turned into Frankenstein wreaking havoc on the village.

I promise you the establishment of the GOP would love to see your cause go the way of the whigs.

Quote:But but but... I thought only the GOP was using Abortion as a vote gathering strategy...

yes,

now that political calculus has flipped. The gop used it from the 80's up through 2004.

In 2012 it was a full on flip the script. It's only going to become more prominent. You shall see. It will be out of the GOP's political platform within your lifetime.

http://www.gopchoice.org/

The Republican National Committee has passed a resolution unilaterally supporting anti-choice abortion bans – once again putting divisive politics over serious economic issues. And if that wasn’t enough - anti-choice Senator Lindsey Graham recently tried to force discussion on a dangerous anti-choice ban in the middle of a debate on a tax bill! Talk about mixed up priorities.

Join RMC in telling the RNC and Republican Leadership that it is time to TURN AWAY from anti-choice extremism – and start focusing on ways to bring the party together and find real solutions to the problems facing our nation. Sign our petition to the RNC NOW!

Who We Are
RM4C is a national organization with members truly committed to limiting the scope of government in the personal lives of Americans. We are Republicans because we believe in the rights and power of the individual. These values should extended to all areas of policies, including social issues.

Limited government is the cornerstone of the real Republican platform.
Doctors and patients, not politicians, should determine the course of medical treatment.
Labels like pro-choice or anti-choice should not deter the important issue of fighting to ensure that Americans can make their own medical decisions.
Individuals and families have the right to unfettered access to reproductive choices, from education to abstinence, contraception, motherhood, adoption and safe legal abortion.
There is nothing more fiscally conservative than the proven cost-savings of preventative health policies and initiatives.
Choice is not a political issue and the government should not be in the business of legislating private behavior or personal medical decisions.
Choice will never be safe unless it is respected and supported within both parties.

(05-28-2014 10:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Who We Are
RM4C is a national organization with members truly committed to limiting the scope of government in the personal lives of Americans. We are Republicans because we believe in the rights and power of the individual. These values should extended to all areas of policies, including social issues.

Yet we also support laws against rape and murder because we understand getting the government out of an individuals life does not mean they can do what they damn well please with another individual.

Good luck with the abortion equals murder and rape argument.

It's such an obnoxious statement that I can't even find a respectable polling firm polling it. It's probably under 10%. The sentiment is out there but it's the fringe of society.

Murder laws aren't anti-choice bans.

Mach, if only 10% agreed with abortion, would you flip on your position.

(05-28-2014 10:18 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Good luck with the abortion equals murder and rape argument.

It's such an obnoxious statement that I can't even find a respectable polling firm polling it. It's probably under 10%. The sentiment is out there but it's the fringe of society.

It's only about half as obnoxious as the "You cant be small government yet against abortion" card you keep trying to bring up..

My statement is offensive, yours in insipid..

No,

Small govt. argument.

I honestly can not think of a more invasive govt. intervention than the pro life argument. You are literally forcing someone to carry a child who is facing a certain death for your political whims. Can't think of one. It's the NANNY big brother state argument on steroids.

(05-28-2014 10:38 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Small govt. argument.

I honestly can not think of a more invasive govt. intervention than the pro life argument. You are literally forcing someone to carry a child who is facing a certain death for your political whims. Can't think of one. It's the NANNY big brother state argument on steroids.

There's no "certain death" until someone walks into an abortion clinic.

We have murder laws. Why should there be a special carve out exempting mothers and their innocent babies.

Doesn't really go here but... well maybe it does. This bright child couldn't have spoken these wise words if she had been aborted.

(05-28-2014 10:38 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You are literally forcing someone to carry a child who is facing a certain death for your political whims.

So Mach to be clear... You oppose abortion in all cases except when there is a genetic deformity that dooms the child to a short and painful life?

I don't think your opinion or my opinion dictates or trumps another families planning or decisions.

If someone doesn't want a child and gets pregnant, they aren't planning.

(05-28-2014 11:24 AM)Paul M Wrote:  If someone doesn't want a child and gets pregnant, they aren't planning.

Unless they are part of the .1% of women on The Pill who got pregnant

(05-28-2014 09:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  So because a percentage of a certain part of a population goes one way, means that the rest of the population in all other areas will go that way too?


yes as long as the sample was random. Anything over 700 is golden. Well with 3% either way.

I won't argue with you on that, but I still don't buy it, unless they polled 700 people, then 330,000,000 to come up with that as a fact.

2+2 factually equals 4, but 793 people out of 1,470 in favor of one thing, doesn't factually equal 178,200,000 people out of 330,000,000 in favor of the same thing. +/- 9,900,000

Dude,

Stats 101 man................

as long as the sampling was truly random it's golden......................