Quote:Former Virginia governor L. Douglas Wilder has opened a new chapter in his bid to establish a slavery museum by proposing as its home a site in downtown Richmond – but he did so without giving stakeholders or the property owner much of a heads up.

The governor’s latest proposal for his long-dreamed-of National Slavery Museum puts him at odds with Richmond leaders who have other commemorative plans.

Speaking Thursday, Wilder said his goal is to move the project along however he can: “It isn’t about me. It is about a forgotten history that America can ill-afford to forget.”

The nation’s first black elected governor pitched the historic First African Baptist Church at 14th and Broad streets.

Problem is, the property that housed the church founded in 1841 now is home to a Virginia Commonwealth University medical school program that trains lab scientists. It’s set up more as a teaching environment than a place for exhibits.

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/05/wilder-p...e-surprise

The museum was a good idea, especially if it mirrors the design of the Holocaust Museum. That said, Wilder needs to hand it off to someone that knows what they are doing. Maybe even work in a way to get Smithsonian involved.

(05-09-2014 08:57 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

Quote:Former Virginia governor L. Douglas Wilder has opened a new chapter in his bid to establish a slavery museum by proposing as its home a site in downtown Richmond – but he did so without giving stakeholders or the property owner much of a heads up.

The governor’s latest proposal for his long-dreamed-of National Slavery Museum puts him at odds with Richmond leaders who have other commemorative plans.

Speaking Thursday, Wilder said his goal is to move the project along however he can: “It isn’t about me. It is about a forgotten history that America can ill-afford to forget.”

The nation’s first black elected governor pitched the historic First African Baptist Church at 14th and Broad streets.

Problem is, the property that housed the church founded in 1841 now is home to a Virginia Commonwealth University medical school program that trains lab scientists. It’s set up more as a teaching environment than a place for exhibits.

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/05/wilder-p...e-surprise

The museum was a good idea, especially if it mirrors the design of the Holocaust Museum. That said, Wilder needs to hand it off to someone that knows what they are doing. Maybe even work in a way to get Smithsonian involved.

IMO that is the real issue, that unless its the Smithsonian or the NPS, its never going to get the backing it needs. They are building a Civil Rights Museum in ATL which will probably encompass 50-60% of what Wilder envisions.

We have the National Underground Railrood Freedom Center here in Cincinnati. The Freedom Center has many exhibits, including the only known surviving rural slave pen used to house slaves prior to auction.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://free...mFOogl3Mgg

I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

(05-09-2014 09:31 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We have the National Underground Railrood Freedom Center here in Cincinnati. The Freedom Center has many exhibits, including the only known surviving rural slave pen used to house slaves prior to auction.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://free...mFOogl3Mgg

Yes, and not surprisingly, it can't break even and has to be subsidized with taxpayer money to stay in business. I think the biggest difficulty is that it's tough to get a whole lot of repeat customers. I mean, it's interesting, but why would I go back multiple times to see essentially the same thing. Oh, and did I mention it's location is probably the most expensive property in downtown Cincinnati? Right between both stadiums on the river.

If I was asked to put together a list of things that require government subsidy, I'd probably be OK with the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center being on that list.

But only after a very rigorous accounting of their books, and a very public conversation about the compensation of it's executives.

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

Outside of treating humans like mules, those times WERE great, and not every slave owner abused his slaves...

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had...

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

I once visited some of the pyramids in Egypt. Who do you suppose built them? Independent contractors? Yet the main focus of the tour-guides was on the pharaohs, not the countless slaves who died (or were killed) to make the pyramids possible. I would be amused to see someone suggest -- in Egypt -- that Egypt should adopt a "Holocaust mentality" in presenting those sites to the rest of the world. Same goes for the Suez Canal.

Or perhaps the Mayan ruins in Central America should be presented with a Holocaust mentality, or the Great Wall in China.

(05-09-2014 12:08 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

Outside of treating humans like mules, those times WERE great, and not every slave owner abused his slaves...

Were they great? This was a time when getting shot in the leg was an automatic amputation. This was a time when the biggest risk to your life in war wasn't battle, but disease.

(05-09-2014 11:03 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  If I was asked to put together a list of things that require government subsidy, I'd probably be OK with the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center being on that list.

But only after a very rigorous accounting of their books, and a very public conversation about the compensation of it's executives.

Actually, I'm not entirely opposed to some government appropriations either, my biggest question comes from placing it on what is arguably the most expensive piece of real estate in the entire Cincinnati region. I mean, it couldn't have gone 2 blocks away?

(05-09-2014 12:56 PM)Crebman Wrote:  my biggest question comes from placing it on what is arguably the most expensive piece of real estate in the entire Cincinnati region. I mean, it couldn't have gone 2 blocks away?

If the political balance in Cincinnati is anything like the one in Atlanta… no it can't go 2 blocks away, and if you ask again it's because you're probably racist.

(05-09-2014 01:00 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 12:56 PM)Crebman Wrote:  my biggest question comes from placing it on what is arguably the most expensive piece of real estate in the entire Cincinnati region. I mean, it couldn't have gone 2 blocks away?

If the political balance in Cincinnati is anything like the one in Atlanta… no it can't go 2 blocks away, and if you ask again it's because you're probably racist.

Bingo. So - the area right between both stadiums that could have been full of vibrant nightlife houses a huge building that's vacant at night.

(05-09-2014 12:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 12:08 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

Outside of treating humans like mules, those times WERE great, and not every slave owner abused his slaves...

Were they great? This was a time when getting shot in the leg was an automatic amputation. This was a time when the biggest risk to your life in war wasn't battle, but disease.

There was also 300,000,000 less people, no car wrecks, no reason to lock your doors, and the list of optimism go on, just like your list of pessimism. There's good and bad in every generation. I would personally rather be in those times, because of the air quality, open plains, etc. I WOULDN'T like the slavery, medical technology, etc. But just remember, while people get lambasted over slavery, IN 2014, it was the African nation who sold their own people out to nations all over the world FOR slavery. People between 1616 and 1865 were doing what they thought was right. Slavery was severed in 1865, and segregation was severed in the 60's, that should have stopped all talks of slavery and reparations and racism.

(05-09-2014 01:08 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 12:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 12:08 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

Outside of treating humans like mules, those times WERE great, and not every slave owner abused his slaves...

Were they great? This was a time when getting shot in the leg was an automatic amputation. This was a time when the biggest risk to your life in war wasn't battle, but disease.

There was also 300,000,000 less people, no car wrecks, no reason to lock your doors, and the list of optimism go on, just like your list of pessimism. There's good and bad in every generation. I would personally rather be in those times, because of the air quality, open plains, etc. I WOULDN'T like the slavery, medical technology, etc. But just remember, while people get lambasted over slavery, IN 2014, it was the African nation who sold their own people out to nations all over the world FOR slavery. People between 1616 and 1865 were doing what they thought was right. Slavery was severed in 1865, and segregation was severed in the 60's, that should have stopped all talks of slavery and reparations and racism.

This ain't about slavery. This is about the romanticized thinking about any time in the past. I'm not saying you wouldn't last, but I will say that you wouldn't like it. Do you think people just sat back and thought to themselves, my goodness, these are great times to live.

(05-09-2014 01:16 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 01:08 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 12:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 12:08 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

Outside of treating humans like mules, those times WERE great, and not every slave owner abused his slaves...

Were they great? This was a time when getting shot in the leg was an automatic amputation. This was a time when the biggest risk to your life in war wasn't battle, but disease.

There was also 300,000,000 less people, no car wrecks, no reason to lock your doors, and the list of optimism go on, just like your list of pessimism. There's good and bad in every generation. I would personally rather be in those times, because of the air quality, open plains, etc. I WOULDN'T like the slavery, medical technology, etc. But just remember, while people get lambasted over slavery, IN 2014, it was the African nation who sold their own people out to nations all over the world FOR slavery. People between 1616 and 1865 were doing what they thought was right. Slavery was severed in 1865, and segregation was severed in the 60's, that should have stopped all talks of slavery and reparations and racism.

This ain't about slavery. This is about the romanticized thinking about any time in the past. I'm not saying you wouldn't last, but I will say that you wouldn't like it. Do you think people just sat back and thought to themselves, my goodness, these are great times to live.

No, they worried more about what they were going to do to make sure their crops didn't die, and other things about their current life. Ancient artifacts weren't big deals or thoughts, nor was space and time... Keeping their kids fed and clothed and alive, etc were on their minds.

Actually, if I could go back to ANY time, I would want to go back to either the 1500's or 1700's. Then I'd make a stop by the early 1970's and have a beer with my two uncles that had just gotten back from Vietnam, and shake the hand of my grandfather that I never got to meet. Then probably pinch my mom's ear for shiggles.

This museum will go the same way as the slavery museum proposed by Wilder in Fredericksburg, VA. They started fundraising for that in 2001 and didn't even raise enough funds to pay the property taxes on the land they wanted to put the museum. That plan died around 2008. If this type of museum is to be built, it will need to be in Washington DC.

I'd like to go back to about 800 as Ragnar Lothbrook.

(05-09-2014 02:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to go back to about 800 as Ragnar Lothbrook.

A fan of Vikings, are we? I never got to see the last three episodes. I had them DVR'd but my receiver went out and had to be replaced, out went all my episodes of Vikings, dammit. It took me a month to get all three of my Back to the Futures back.

(05-09-2014 02:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to go back to about 800 as Ragnar Lothbrook.

Fun fact: The vikings were the first group of humans to set foot in North America when they came ashore in Canada.

(05-09-2014 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I remember visiting a plantation in SC and walked away feeling appalled at how the south wishes to remember that era. the tour guide seemed almost to be bragging about how large the plantation was and how many slaves they had.

The guide took a stance about how badly the plantation was wronged as a result of the civil war with most of its assets being taken to support the war (by the confederate govt no less) and kept referring to that era as "its golden age/its glory days"

The worst part was when you went to the place where the slaves were buried, they had yet to properly mark the graves, no memorial, no nothing. just a quick stop along the way with a "oh yeah that, there were slaves here."

i was expecting a sort of mentality resembling the approach the Holocaust Museum took. instead it was a circle jerk about how great the south was in the early 1800s and how sad it was that that era ended.

#lesson learned

Similar experience but different conclusions.

Now I personally HATE going on historic tours or anything like them in the south. I've done it in Colonial Williamsburg, Charleston, Savannah, and a few others.

But, I don't think they're trying to overlook the slaves. It's that these places have so much other history, but making an emphasis of slavery will ruin the experiences of tourists, even though it is just as important to the history of the area as anything good they've done.

When people can somehow be distantly associated with bad portions of history, they tend to completely omit those bad parts in hope that people would just forget. Native American genocide is another one that they've been almost successful in hiding.

In this situation the times were either heavily outweighed by good or heavily outweighed by bad, depending on who you ask. There's far from a consensus.