(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The countries who have the drinking age at 18 (or lower) also don't make alcohol that "big of a deal". You learn responsibility early and they don't have all these shows that glamorize getting wasted (Skins didn't really glamorize it). We have to retool our culture a bit for lowering the drinking age to be a success.

With that being said, I'm behind the principle of lowering the age.

Some people in the United States often cite, incorrectly, that European countries with lower drinking ages show fewer youth alcohol problems than the U.S. The Minnesota Department of Health website shares information stating that U.S. 15 and 16 year olds drank less and binged less than 35 European Nations and that 75 percent of the European nations had a higher percentage of youth drinking to intoxication.

Many European countries have made changes during the last decade and for good reason.
France saw a 50 percent increase in the number of 15-24 year olds hospitalized for excessive alcohol use between 2004 and 2007. During this time, alcohol was the leading cause of death among the French. In 2009, France raised the MLDA from 16 to 18 and banned open bars (for a single fee drink as much as wanted). It is not a reach to expect these countries to make even more changes in the next decade showing a firmer grip on their youth’s consumption.

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 01:38 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Well, it was just a matter of time before the legalize crowd thought it would also be a great idea to lower the drinking age. Why not accelerate the downfall even more.

If my son or daughter are "adult" enough to be forced to fight for their country then surely they "adult" enough to partake in a legal substance.
It needs to be one or the other...Raise the age for conscription or lower the age to drink. Either way matters not to me. The contradiction should be embarrassing to anyone with have a fcking brain.

Arguing that an 18-year-old can join the service and fight for our nation so they should be able to drink legally means permitting doing something harmful to their emotional and physical wellbeing. Drinking should never be considered a reward or right of passage.

That's exactly what you make it when you put an age limit like 21 on it.

(04-23-2014 08:32 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:41 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:39 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:33 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 06:59 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Take care of the economy and the social culture will take care of itself. This whole notion that our society will break down because of drugs, alcohol, etc. is BS, the US survived for centuries without a drug prohibition or drinking age of 21 and scaling back restrictions won't cause us to fall into chaos (provided that non-social freedoms remain intact).

Not when you are pushing liberal culture.

There's never been a wealthy, enslaved society in the history of mankind. That will continue to be true in the years to come.

Social trends will come and go. The flappers didn't spend their entire life at a speakeasy, the hippies don't keep going around using LSD and engaging in free love. People have been decrying the "immorality of the youth" for centuries, and it's no different now. There are exceptions of course, but people will grow up when economic opportunities are plentiful.

So now you are equating not being able to drink at 18 to being enslaved?

No, you're better than that Okie.

In case you need me to spell it out, an economically free and prosperous society will never be dysfunctional to the point of a chaotic social breakdown. Government doesn't need to use the barrel of a gun to regulate vices, they just need to make sure that no one else hurts each other. The enslavement statement just meant that a wealthy society will never suffer from a great deal of oppressive social policies by the government, nor will they collapse as a result of people being able to smoke pot or drink past a certain age.

For the record, I don't think it's the worst idea to keep the ban on hard liquor for 21 and up. The best thing to help prevent alcohol abuse in the long run is for society at large to scale back our overbearing taboo attitude towards it. Imposing limits and making drinking out more than it really is just gives it a 'forbidden fruit' quality that encourages binge drinking.

Now you are tailoring your stance as the argument shifts. Regarding the bold: You can look to many societies around the world to discredit that false statement. That is part of a bigger collapse that ignorance like this is creating.

(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The countries who have the drinking age at 18 (or lower) also don't make alcohol that "big of a deal". You learn responsibility early and they don't have all these shows that glamorize getting wasted (Skins didn't really glamorize it). We have to retool our culture a bit for lowering the drinking age to be a success.

With that being said, I'm behind the principle of lowering the age.

Some people in the United States often cite, incorrectly, that European countries with lower drinking ages show fewer youth alcohol problems than the U.S. The Minnesota Department of Health website shares information stating that U.S. 15 and 16 year olds drank less and binged less than 35 European Nations and that 75 percent of the European nations had a higher percentage of youth drinking to intoxication.

Many European countries have made changes during the last decade and for good reason.
France saw a 50 percent increase in the number of 15-24 year olds hospitalized for excessive alcohol use between 2004 and 2007. During this time, alcohol was the leading cause of death among the French. In 2009, France raised the MLDA from 16 to 18 and banned open bars (for a single fee drink as much as wanted). It is not a reach to expect these countries to make even more changes in the next decade showing a firmer grip on their youth’s consumption.

When is a person an adult in your eyes?

(04-23-2014 08:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 01:38 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Well, it was just a matter of time before the legalize crowd thought it would also be a great idea to lower the drinking age. Why not accelerate the downfall even more.

If my son or daughter are "adult" enough to be forced to fight for their country then surely they "adult" enough to partake in a legal substance.
It needs to be one or the other...Raise the age for conscription or lower the age to drink. Either way matters not to me. The contradiction should be embarrassing to anyone with have a fcking brain.

Arguing that an 18-year-old can join the service and fight for our nation so they should be able to drink legally means permitting doing something harmful to their emotional and physical wellbeing. Drinking should never be considered a reward or right of passage.

That's exactly what you make it when you put an age limit like 21 on it.

Then why have an age limit?

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The countries who have the drinking age at 18 (or lower) also don't make alcohol that "big of a deal". You learn responsibility early and they don't have all these shows that glamorize getting wasted (Skins didn't really glamorize it). We have to retool our culture a bit for lowering the drinking age to be a success.

With that being said, I'm behind the principle of lowering the age.

Some people in the United States often cite, incorrectly, that European countries with lower drinking ages show fewer youth alcohol problems than the U.S. The Minnesota Department of Health website shares information stating that U.S. 15 and 16 year olds drank less and binged less than 35 European Nations and that 75 percent of the European nations had a higher percentage of youth drinking to intoxication.

Many European countries have made changes during the last decade and for good reason.
France saw a 50 percent increase in the number of 15-24 year olds hospitalized for excessive alcohol use between 2004 and 2007. During this time, alcohol was the leading cause of death among the French. In 2009, France raised the MLDA from 16 to 18 and banned open bars (for a single fee drink as much as wanted). It is not a reach to expect these countries to make even more changes in the next decade showing a firmer grip on their youth’s consumption.

When is a person an adult in your eyes?

legally 21. Emotionally mid 20s. Don't overshadow the facts with my opinion on adulthood.

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 01:38 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Well, it was just a matter of time before the legalize crowd thought it would also be a great idea to lower the drinking age. Why not accelerate the downfall even more.

If my son or daughter are "adult" enough to be forced to fight for their country then surely they "adult" enough to partake in a legal substance.
It needs to be one or the other...Raise the age for conscription or lower the age to drink. Either way matters not to me. The contradiction should be embarrassing to anyone with have a fcking brain.

Arguing that an 18-year-old can join the service and fight for our nation so they should be able to drink legally means permitting doing something harmful to their emotional and physical wellbeing. Drinking should never be considered a reward or right of passage.

That's exactly what you make it when you put an age limit like 21 on it.

Then why have an age limit?

I don't know, we have a love of legislation.

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  If my son or daughter are "adult" enough to be forced to fight for their country then surely they "adult" enough to partake in a legal substance.
It needs to be one or the other...Raise the age for conscription or lower the age to drink. Either way matters not to me. The contradiction should be embarrassing to anyone with have a fcking brain.

Arguing that an 18-year-old can join the service and fight for our nation so they should be able to drink legally means permitting doing something harmful to their emotional and physical wellbeing. Drinking should never be considered a reward or right of passage.

That's exactly what you make it when you put an age limit like 21 on it.

Then why have an age limit?

I don't know, we have a love of legislation.

So you feel it is ok to allow an 8yo to drink?

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The countries who have the drinking age at 18 (or lower) also don't make alcohol that "big of a deal". You learn responsibility early and they don't have all these shows that glamorize getting wasted (Skins didn't really glamorize it). We have to retool our culture a bit for lowering the drinking age to be a success.

With that being said, I'm behind the principle of lowering the age.

Some people in the United States often cite, incorrectly, that European countries with lower drinking ages show fewer youth alcohol problems than the U.S. The Minnesota Department of Health website shares information stating that U.S. 15 and 16 year olds drank less and binged less than 35 European Nations and that 75 percent of the European nations had a higher percentage of youth drinking to intoxication.

Many European countries have made changes during the last decade and for good reason.
France saw a 50 percent increase in the number of 15-24 year olds hospitalized for excessive alcohol use between 2004 and 2007. During this time, alcohol was the leading cause of death among the French. In 2009, France raised the MLDA from 16 to 18 and banned open bars (for a single fee drink as much as wanted). It is not a reach to expect these countries to make even more changes in the next decade showing a firmer grip on their youth’s consumption.

When is a person an adult in your eyes?

legally 21. Emotionally mid 20s. Don't overshadow the facts with my opinion on adulthood.

I was just getting a gauge. In your opinion people shouldn't be able to buy cigarettes, enlist in the military, vote, move out of the house, own a home, take out a loan, or be able to sign any papers on their own accord?

I know that paragraph may seem like a bunch of straw men, but I believe that an adult is an adult. If you can do all of the above things, you should be able to drink if you want to. We have to be consistent.

(04-23-2014 08:58 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The countries who have the drinking age at 18 (or lower) also don't make alcohol that "big of a deal". You learn responsibility early and they don't have all these shows that glamorize getting wasted (Skins didn't really glamorize it). We have to retool our culture a bit for lowering the drinking age to be a success.

With that being said, I'm behind the principle of lowering the age.

Some people in the United States often cite, incorrectly, that European countries with lower drinking ages show fewer youth alcohol problems than the U.S. The Minnesota Department of Health website shares information stating that U.S. 15 and 16 year olds drank less and binged less than 35 European Nations and that 75 percent of the European nations had a higher percentage of youth drinking to intoxication.

Many European countries have made changes during the last decade and for good reason.
France saw a 50 percent increase in the number of 15-24 year olds hospitalized for excessive alcohol use between 2004 and 2007. During this time, alcohol was the leading cause of death among the French. In 2009, France raised the MLDA from 16 to 18 and banned open bars (for a single fee drink as much as wanted). It is not a reach to expect these countries to make even more changes in the next decade showing a firmer grip on their youth’s consumption.

When is a person an adult in your eyes?

legally 21. Emotionally mid 20s. Don't overshadow the facts with my opinion on adulthood.

I was just getting a gauge. In your opinion people shouldn't be able to buy cigarettes, enlist in the military, vote, move out of the house, own a home, take out a loan, or be able to sign any papers on their own accord?

I know that paragraph may seem like a bunch of straw men, but I believe that an adult is an adult. If you can do all of the above things, you should be able to drink if you want to. We have to be consistent.

There are physiological reasons the drinking age is 21 years old. There is potential harm alcohol may have on the developing brain, which is maturing well into the 20s. Your libertarian views never account for such things.

Joining the military is not altering you chemical makeup. Joining the military is not putting others in danger because you are young, dumb and decide to drive you dad's car back drunk

(04-23-2014 08:52 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Arguing that an 18-year-old can join the service and fight for our nation so they should be able to drink legally means permitting doing something harmful to their emotional and physical wellbeing. Drinking should never be considered a reward or right of passage.

That's exactly what you make it when you put an age limit like 21 on it.

Then why have an age limit?

I don't know, we have a love of legislation.

So you feel it is ok to allow an 8yo to drink?

I got one small glass of wine on baptism days since I was young. Used to get one for Sunday dinner too.

But no, of course I don't think we should have 8 year olds popping a beer open should be legal in the context in which we are speaking.

(04-23-2014 09:02 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:58 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Some people in the United States often cite, incorrectly, that European countries with lower drinking ages show fewer youth alcohol problems than the U.S. The Minnesota Department of Health website shares information stating that U.S. 15 and 16 year olds drank less and binged less than 35 European Nations and that 75 percent of the European nations had a higher percentage of youth drinking to intoxication.

Many European countries have made changes during the last decade and for good reason.
France saw a 50 percent increase in the number of 15-24 year olds hospitalized for excessive alcohol use between 2004 and 2007. During this time, alcohol was the leading cause of death among the French. In 2009, France raised the MLDA from 16 to 18 and banned open bars (for a single fee drink as much as wanted). It is not a reach to expect these countries to make even more changes in the next decade showing a firmer grip on their youth’s consumption.

When is a person an adult in your eyes?

legally 21. Emotionally mid 20s. Don't overshadow the facts with my opinion on adulthood.

I was just getting a gauge. In your opinion people shouldn't be able to buy cigarettes, enlist in the military, vote, move out of the house, own a home, take out a loan, or be able to sign any papers on their own accord?

I know that paragraph may seem like a bunch of straw men, but I believe that an adult is an adult. If you can do all of the above things, you should be able to drink if you want to. We have to be consistent.

There are physiological reasons the drinking age is 21 years old. There is potential harm alcohol may have on the developing brain, which is maturing well into the 20s. Your libertarian views never account for such things.

Joining the military is not altering you chemical makeup. Joining the military is not putting others in danger because you are young, dumb and decide to drive you dad's car back drunk

We went almost 200 years with a drinking age less than 21 years old. We didn't really suffer then did we?

So you're saying that joining the military is safer than having beers?

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:32 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:41 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:39 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:33 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Not when you are pushing liberal culture.

There's never been a wealthy, enslaved society in the history of mankind. That will continue to be true in the years to come.

Social trends will come and go. The flappers didn't spend their entire life at a speakeasy, the hippies don't keep going around using LSD and engaging in free love. People have been decrying the "immorality of the youth" for centuries, and it's no different now. There are exceptions of course, but people will grow up when economic opportunities are plentiful.

So now you are equating not being able to drink at 18 to being enslaved?

No, you're better than that Okie.

In case you need me to spell it out, an economically free and prosperous society will never be dysfunctional to the point of a chaotic social breakdown. Government doesn't need to use the barrel of a gun to regulate vices, they just need to make sure that no one else hurts each other. The enslavement statement just meant that a wealthy society will never suffer from a great deal of oppressive social policies by the government, nor will they collapse as a result of people being able to smoke pot or drink past a certain age.

For the record, I don't think it's the worst idea to keep the ban on hard liquor for 21 and up. The best thing to help prevent alcohol abuse in the long run is for society at large to scale back our overbearing taboo attitude towards it. Imposing limits and making drinking out more than it really is just gives it a 'forbidden fruit' quality that encourages binge drinking.

Now you are tailoring your stance as the argument shifts. Regarding the bold: You can look to many societies around the world to discredit that false statement. That is part of a bigger collapse that ignorance like this is creating.

Name those countries that have collapsed because of pot and alcohol usage.

(04-23-2014 09:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:52 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  That's exactly what you make it when you put an age limit like 21 on it.

Then why have an age limit?

I don't know, we have a love of legislation.

So you feel it is ok to allow an 8yo to drink?

I got one small glass of wine on baptism days since I was young. Used to get one for Sunday dinner too.

But no, of course I don't think we should have 8 year olds popping a beer open should be legal in the context in which we are speaking.

Then you have a clear understanding why we have a drinking age and have made no logical argument that it needs to be lowered.

(04-23-2014 09:13 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:02 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:58 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  When is a person an adult in your eyes?

legally 21. Emotionally mid 20s. Don't overshadow the facts with my opinion on adulthood.

I was just getting a gauge. In your opinion people shouldn't be able to buy cigarettes, enlist in the military, vote, move out of the house, own a home, take out a loan, or be able to sign any papers on their own accord?

I know that paragraph may seem like a bunch of straw men, but I believe that an adult is an adult. If you can do all of the above things, you should be able to drink if you want to. We have to be consistent.

There are physiological reasons the drinking age is 21 years old. There is potential harm alcohol may have on the developing brain, which is maturing well into the 20s. Your libertarian views never account for such things.

Joining the military is not altering you chemical makeup. Joining the military is not putting others in danger because you are young, dumb and decide to drive you dad's car back drunk

We went almost 200 years with a drinking age less than 21 years old. We didn't really suffer then did we?

So you're saying that joining the military is safer than having beers?

Of course we suffered. Otherwise it wouldn't have been raised. What reason does the govt have to cut into its taxes by cutting off a portion of the purchasing demographic?

The 21st Amendment to the United States Constitution repealed prohibition – thus allowing states to regulate how and by whom alcohol could be consumed. When this occurred, in 1933, most states had a 21-year-old minimum drinking age. By 1982 only 14 states retained minimum legal drinking age (MLDA) of 21 years. In the 1970s and 1980s the MLDA became a traffic safety problem as it became calculable that youth’s traffic crashes increased when states lowered the drinking age.

In 1984 Congress enacted the National Minimum Purchase Age Act which prohibited the purchase and possession of alcohol if under 21. Simultaneously they put pressure on the states that did not raise the MLDA to 21; states that did not comply would lose a portion of their federal highway construction funding. By 1988 all states had a 21 MLDA.

Even before the last states came on board it was becoming apparent that youth lives were being saved nationwide due to a higher drinking age; from 1975 through 1996 over 17,000 fewer youth deaths having the higher drinking age across the nation. Alcohol-related crashes involving young drivers have also declined 63 percent since 1982. Taking alcohol out of youth’s lives more earnestly than ever before had spectacular side effects – reduced youth suicides, marijuana use, alcohol consumption and crime.

Two national studies showed the positives of a 21 MLDA; both high school students and youth after turning 21 drank less if they were from a state with a MLDA of 21. They also found a direct result from lower alcohol consumption was fewer traffic crashes. (O’Malley and Wagenaar, 1991 and Voas, Tippets, and Fell, 1999 – FARS DATA)

(04-23-2014 09:18 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:52 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Then why have an age limit?

I don't know, we have a love of legislation.

So you feel it is ok to allow an 8yo to drink?

I got one small glass of wine on baptism days since I was young. Used to get one for Sunday dinner too.

But no, of course I don't think we should have 8 year olds popping a beer open should be legal in the context in which we are speaking.

Then you have a clear understanding why we have a drinking age and have made no logical argument that it needs to be lowered.

My argument is that an adult should be an adult. With the responsibility of adulthood should come the privileges.

(04-23-2014 09:14 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:32 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:41 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:39 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  There's never been a wealthy, enslaved society in the history of mankind. That will continue to be true in the years to come.

Social trends will come and go. The flappers didn't spend their entire life at a speakeasy, the hippies don't keep going around using LSD and engaging in free love. People have been decrying the "immorality of the youth" for centuries, and it's no different now. There are exceptions of course, but people will grow up when economic opportunities are plentiful.

So now you are equating not being able to drink at 18 to being enslaved?

No, you're better than that Okie.

In case you need me to spell it out, an economically free and prosperous society will never be dysfunctional to the point of a chaotic social breakdown. Government doesn't need to use the barrel of a gun to regulate vices, they just need to make sure that no one else hurts each other. The enslavement statement just meant that a wealthy society will never suffer from a great deal of oppressive social policies by the government, nor will they collapse as a result of people being able to smoke pot or drink past a certain age.

For the record, I don't think it's the worst idea to keep the ban on hard liquor for 21 and up. The best thing to help prevent alcohol abuse in the long run is for society at large to scale back our overbearing taboo attitude towards it. Imposing limits and making drinking out more than it really is just gives it a 'forbidden fruit' quality that encourages binge drinking.

Now you are tailoring your stance as the argument shifts. Regarding the bold: You can look to many societies around the world to discredit that false statement. That is part of a bigger collapse that ignorance like this is creating.

Name those countries that have collapsed because of pot and alcohol usage.

Try reading what I wrote. I said those were symptoms of a collapsing society. It's about infecting a culture with liberalism WHICH IS exactly what libertarians do.

(04-23-2014 09:22 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:14 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:49 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:32 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:41 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  So now you are equating not being able to drink at 18 to being enslaved?

No, you're better than that Okie.

In case you need me to spell it out, an economically free and prosperous society will never be dysfunctional to the point of a chaotic social breakdown. Government doesn't need to use the barrel of a gun to regulate vices, they just need to make sure that no one else hurts each other. The enslavement statement just meant that a wealthy society will never suffer from a great deal of oppressive social policies by the government, nor will they collapse as a result of people being able to smoke pot or drink past a certain age.

For the record, I don't think it's the worst idea to keep the ban on hard liquor for 21 and up. The best thing to help prevent alcohol abuse in the long run is for society at large to scale back our overbearing taboo attitude towards it. Imposing limits and making drinking out more than it really is just gives it a 'forbidden fruit' quality that encourages binge drinking.

Now you are tailoring your stance as the argument shifts. Regarding the bold: You can look to many societies around the world to discredit that false statement. That is part of a bigger collapse that ignorance like this is creating.

Name those countries that have collapsed because of pot and alcohol usage.

Try reading what I wrote. I said those were symptoms of a collapsing society. It's about infecting a culture with liberalism WHICH IS exactly what libertarians do.

Alright name the failed societies.

(04-23-2014 09:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:18 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:52 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:51 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't know, we have a love of legislation.

So you feel it is ok to allow an 8yo to drink?

I got one small glass of wine on baptism days since I was young. Used to get one for Sunday dinner too.

But no, of course I don't think we should have 8 year olds popping a beer open should be legal in the context in which we are speaking.

Then you have a clear understanding why we have a drinking age and have made no logical argument that it needs to be lowered.

My argument is that an adult should be an adult.

Going off that argument, an 18 year old should be able to run for President. Again, you are making a fallacious argument basing it on differing age requirements. There is a reason alcohol has a certain age limit and I posted it above...complete with bold hot points.

I'm sorry but you are just wrong on this.

(04-23-2014 09:24 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:18 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:52 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  So you feel it is ok to allow an 8yo to drink?

I got one small glass of wine on baptism days since I was young. Used to get one for Sunday dinner too.

But no, of course I don't think we should have 8 year olds popping a beer open should be legal in the context in which we are speaking.

Then you have a clear understanding why we have a drinking age and have made no logical argument that it needs to be lowered.

My argument is that an adult should be an adult.

Going off that argument, an 18 year old should be able to run for President. Again, you are making a fallacious argument basing it on differing age requirements. There is a reason alcohol has a certain age limit and I posted it above...complete with bold hot points.

I'm sorry but you are just wrong on this.

Well we'll just agree. I'm just a level 2 adult.