Quote:Justices approve state bans on affirmative action


WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court dealt another blow to affirmative action programs Tuesday, upholding the right of states to ban racial preferences in university admissions.

The decision came in a case brought by Michigan, where a voter-approved initiative banning affirmative action had been tied up in court for a decade.

Seven other states -- California, Florida, Washington, Arizona, Nebraska, Oklahoma and New Hampshire – have similar bans. Now, others may follow suit.

But the ruling, which was expected after the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals struck down the Michigan law, did not jeopardize the wide use of racial preferences in many of the 42 states without bans. Such affirmative action programs were upheld, though subjected to increased scrutiny, in the high court's June ruling involving the University of Texas.

The decision in Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action comes 10 years after two seminal Supreme Court rulings out of the University of Michigan. One struck down the undergraduate school's use of a point system that included race to guide admissions. The other upheld the law school's consideration of race among many other factors....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...n/4481923/

Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

But a word of caution is in order: It's one thing for these "bans" to exist on paper. Getting them enforced in the day-to-day reality of student-admissions to public colleges/universities, not to mention hiring/promotion at all levels of government, is an entirely different ball of wax.

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

But a word of caution is in order: It's one thing for these "bans" to exist on paper. Getting them enforced in the day-to-day reality of student-admissions to public colleges/universities, not to mention hiring/promotion at all levels of government, is an entirely different ball of wax.

True.

Still, I bet fitbud's nervous right now.

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

But a word of caution is in order: It's one thing for these "bans" to exist on paper. Getting them enforced in the day-to-day reality of student-admissions to public colleges/universities, not to mention hiring/promotion at all levels of government, is an entirely different ball of wax.

That's where journalism comes in. There will be multiple undercover operations to out those admission officers who use race as a deciding factor. Universities will be under the microscope.

Poor Western Washington University.

(04-22-2014 10:00 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

But a word of caution is in order: It's one thing for these "bans" to exist on paper. Getting them enforced in the day-to-day reality of student-admissions to public colleges/universities, not to mention hiring/promotion at all levels of government, is an entirely different ball of wax.

That's where journalism comes in. There will be multiple undercover operations to out those admission officers who use race as a deciding factor. Universities will be under the microscope.

I doubt it. It's not that sexy of a story, and frankly it's hard to discern.

Maybe in CA it's an issue getting in to the UC system, but at most places, the cut offs aren't so extreme, and other factors will be used as well.

So wait, people get enrolled in college based on merit instead of race?

(04-22-2014 10:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  So wait, people get enrolled in college based on merit instead of race?

Shocking, right?

Good decision. Affirmative action is racist and discriminatory in my opinion, academia would be wise to phase it out of admissions.

That's not to say that factoring socioeconomic standards (which may correlate with race) into admissions would a bad substitute. I would maybe look at a student differently if they grew up in poverty compared to one who's the child of a millionaire, all other things being equal.

I'm waiting for someone to say it's racist and we don't want brown people to get educated.

I hope they included gays in the ban, because we all know they want every special privilege available.

(04-22-2014 10:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 10:00 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

But a word of caution is in order: It's one thing for these "bans" to exist on paper. Getting them enforced in the day-to-day reality of student-admissions to public colleges/universities, not to mention hiring/promotion at all levels of government, is an entirely different ball of wax.

That's where journalism comes in. There will be multiple undercover operations to out those admission officers who use race as a deciding factor. Universities will be under the microscope.

I doubt it. It's not that sexy of a story, and frankly it's hard to discern.

Maybe in CA it's an issue getting in to the UC system, but at most places, the cut offs aren't so extreme, and other factors will be used as well.

Especially because as a one off I don't mind race being a facor in an individuals admission. If someone who is a refugee from Somolia gets within a hairs breath of admission and they have a compelling true story? bring them in.

The general issue has been with systems that assign you points on skin color.

Good.

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

Regardless, if Americans were capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability, there would be no need for the law.

(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

I think the goal was equal access to opportunities but successful people know that opportunities are outcomes.

(04-22-2014 01:39 PM)Hitch Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

I think the goal was equal access to opportunities but successful people know that opportunities are outcomes.

That is what I meant but Bull wants to play a game of splitting hairs.

Over the next 30 years, we'll see more actions like this as the white majority continues to decline.

I look forward to a day when just get to judge everyone on their merits instead of constructing some sort of faux equality.