(03-20-2014 05:06 PM)dossbig Wrote:  If Huggs deserved the moniker of "One and done" doesn't Cronin rate "Mick out quick"

Both of those descriptions are stupid and undeserved.

It's simple really. when your two "post' players go a combined 8-24 and 4 TOs), you are not going to win any games. Hopefully next year some combination of Deberry, Moore, Strickland, Clark, Lawrence provide some efficient offense in the paint. Half the shots JJ took were circus shots where he went up WEAK.

Next years key will be getting some type of offense down low.

Mick could coach like John Wooden and it wouldn't make these guys shoot. Just a terrible offensive squad.

(03-20-2014 04:55 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I'd fire whoever it was. It reflected badly on the program, university and cost UC points.

Of course you would.

(03-20-2014 04:31 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 04:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Kilpatrick generally shot it well today, but he was just so passive. In the first half UC was in the bonus the last 10 minutes and Kilpatrick refused to attack. Had to put pressure on them to foul or give up layups. So many times UC got the lead to one possession and Kilpatrick did not look for his offense. In UC's long stretch of wins, he looked to attack almost every time in those situations. Great Career. Either the 3rd or 4th best Bearcat career of my lifetime (depending on where you put Fortson), but I was disappointed with him today as well.

The defense in the first half played too much into what Harvard likes to do. The second half they were great, but offense never made a run when we needed it. Was it a good season? Absolutely. But could have been a great season, instead we blew some games down the stretch and went out in the first round. (For those comparing this to Huggs, Huggs never lost to an 11 seed or lower in the first round at UC).

Jackson and Rubles did great things for UC, but utlimately were flawed players and their flaws really stood out today. Jackson for much of the year had show an ability to finish around the rim, but seemed to really come back to earth down the stretch. He was really bad around the rim today.

How about the future... I truly believe Caupain is going to be the best PG since Logan. I thought Cronin shot himself in the foot by not playing him more this year. I know the belief is that Guyn was the better defender, but from what I say Guyn just was the more fundamentally sound defender. Caupain made a few more mistakes (Maybe Guyn seemed to make too many), but he also made many more instinctual plays, getting to balls Guyn would never get to. He was a much better ball handler and the offense looked better with him on the floor. I think he will make an enormous leap next year.

Of course what UC really needs is Lawrence/Thomas to make enormous leaps next year and one of the Freshman to come in and make an immediate impact. If that happens I think UC can be anywhere from a 4-6 seed. If it does not happen, I think the ceiling is low seeded tournament team. Two years is certainly looking like the year for the best team in the Cronin era though.

I am really frustrated right now. Would have been great to see SK and company make a nice run. I didn't see anyone blowing them out in this team. Harvard is a strong team and UC missed too many easy ones and made too many mistakes with a chance to tie the game. Rough, rough lost.

A great post. I am looking for Johnson to take over the SG spot next year too. The future of this team is Caupain and Johnson

Boy, Mark hits the nail on the head with his Guyn/Caupain comments. If I were to criticize Mick for one thing, it's not letting the frosh take their lumps early, maybe at the sacrifice of a win or two, in order to reap benefits down the line. Caupain and Johnson have room to grow. Guyn is at his ceiling. Caupain's silly turnovers would've receded over time; Guyn makes the same passive mistakes over and over again. Caupain has some finesse and aggression in his game and you can live with some of his mistakes because of that; Guyn has no aggression whatsoever. You need your point guard to be able to dribble and create; Guyn can't do either.

That's not to say Guyn doesn't have a place on this team - I like G and he would be a wonderful 6th man vis a vi an A.D. Jackson, but the team would've been so much better off with Caupain and KJ playing more.

(03-20-2014 05:16 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Mick could coach like John Wooden and it wouldn't make these guys shoot. Just a terrible offensive squad.

his recruits had 6 years to bring in a shooter and still hasn't!!!

(03-20-2014 05:19 PM)HattoriHanzo Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 04:31 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 04:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Kilpatrick generally shot it well today, but he was just so passive. In the first half UC was in the bonus the last 10 minutes and Kilpatrick refused to attack. Had to put pressure on them to foul or give up layups. So many times UC got the lead to one possession and Kilpatrick did not look for his offense. In UC's long stretch of wins, he looked to attack almost every time in those situations. Great Career. Either the 3rd or 4th best Bearcat career of my lifetime (depending on where you put Fortson), but I was disappointed with him today as well.

The defense in the first half played too much into what Harvard likes to do. The second half they were great, but offense never made a run when we needed it. Was it a good season? Absolutely. But could have been a great season, instead we blew some games down the stretch and went out in the first round. (For those comparing this to Huggs, Huggs never lost to an 11 seed or lower in the first round at UC).

Jackson and Rubles did great things for UC, but utlimately were flawed players and their flaws really stood out today. Jackson for much of the year had show an ability to finish around the rim, but seemed to really come back to earth down the stretch. He was really bad around the rim today.

How about the future... I truly believe Caupain is going to be the best PG since Logan. I thought Cronin shot himself in the foot by not playing him more this year. I know the belief is that Guyn was the better defender, but from what I say Guyn just was the more fundamentally sound defender. Caupain made a few more mistakes (Maybe Guyn seemed to make too many), but he also made many more instinctual plays, getting to balls Guyn would never get to. He was a much better ball handler and the offense looked better with him on the floor. I think he will make an enormous leap next year.

Of course what UC really needs is Lawrence/Thomas to make enormous leaps next year and one of the Freshman to come in and make an immediate impact. If that happens I think UC can be anywhere from a 4-6 seed. If it does not happen, I think the ceiling is low seeded tournament team. Two years is certainly looking like the year for the best team in the Cronin era though.

I am really frustrated right now. Would have been great to see SK and company make a nice run. I didn't see anyone blowing them out in this team. Harvard is a strong team and UC missed too many easy ones and made too many mistakes with a chance to tie the game. Rough, rough lost.

A great post. I am looking for Johnson to take over the SG spot next year too. The future of this team is Caupain and Johnson

Boy, Mark hits the nail on the head with his Guyn/Caupain comments. If I were to criticize Mick for one thing, it's not letting the frosh take their lumps early, maybe at the sacrifice of a win or two, in order to reap benefits down the line. Caupain and Johnson have room to grow. Guyn is at his ceiling. Caupain's silly turnovers would've receded over time; Guyn makes the same passive mistakes over and over again. Caupain has some finesse and aggression in his game and you can live with some of his mistakes because of that; Guyn has no aggression whatsoever. You need your point guard to be able to dribble and create; Guyn can't do either.

That's not to say Guyn doesn't have a place on this team - I like G and he would be a wonderful 6th man vis a vi an A.D. Jackson, but the team would've been so much better off with Caupain and KJ playing more.

IMO Guyn is not a Division 1 player,certainly should not have started every game..

At the start of the season 27-7 would sound good. At the end of the season finishing 5-5 and losing to a 12th seeded Harvard team feels like a failure. I am also concerned with Cronin really selling the fan base on his teams. He has done a great job, and the Sweet Sixteen appearance a couple of years ago (beating Texas and the 2 seed FSU) is something that a fan base can see and say this is a guy that can do great things.

Unfortunately, losing to Creighton and Harvard in the opening round, and in the fashion they did it, will cause many to continue to wonder if he is "the" guy. Also, to never publicly address the glaring issue of offense when it was completely obvious worries me - maybe he thought he was protecting the team by not discussing it.

(03-20-2014 05:02 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 04:15 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  D was awful in the first, good enough to win in the second. The reason Thomas probably doesn't play is because he leaves shooters open on defense.
None of us are happy about how this season ended so its understandable to vent. Would winning today and losing on Saturday made much of difference, a little but its not the end goal. I want a national championship but I'll take a conference championship and 27 wins and build off of that.

I'd be happy as long as the program builds on what success they do accomplish. We are no where near a NC contender. We are not even a consistent SW16 contender. The program currently seems to be a NCAA qualifier, who cent ends for a conf CH every few years.

What concerns me is when I hear the coach comments about the D being the issue and not the O. Not hearing a concern over our abysmal free throw shooting. At times, I hear rationalizations for certain losses and lack of Tourny success. I see coaches, such as Izzo and K, who make want to win at a high level and do not offer up excuses for poor play. This mindset was the 1st and foremost reason I loved BK.

Yeah and what I hate about Marvin Lewis.

The most disappointing thing to me was the way we seemed to regress the last 2/3 weeks of the season. SK went back to being content to watch other players try to score and chucking up a bad jumper now and then, JJ went back to being unable to hit a shot. Rubles went back to shooting bad jumpers that everyone knows he won't hit.

I did not like Cronin when he came here, but he has slowly grown on me. But the last few weeks have soured me a bit on him again. I think he needs to do less recruiting to a system and more making the system fit the recruits he has. Getting guys athletic and strong enough to play man-to-man and switch almost everything is tough to do recruiting wise, and I imagine is part of the reason why we have so many players who can't shoot.

D is all well and good, but in the end it is not about playing the best D, or playing the best O, it's about winning games. Maybe it's worth recruiting/playing a guy who plays worse on D, or who can't switch on screens, but who can hit shots. A loss is a loss. Doesn't matter if it's 40-41 or 100-101, in the end you need to find a balance between playing D and scoring on O that allows you to win. And it seems like Cronin is too often sway too far to the defensive side of that equation.

The whole season we relied on winning close games. That's works for a while, but in the end the ball isn't always going to bounce your way. We need to be able to put bad teams away and in order to do so we need to be able to play offense. Maybe Cronin needs to go find an assistant coach who can actually teach how to play O.

I think Cronin has maybe 2 more years to show he can win in the NCAA tourney before fans start to sour on him. Regular season is all well and good, but in the end what most fans and prospective players care about is winning in march.

That said I'm optimistic for next year. I think Cronin is finally getting the players he needs for his system to work. We need 7/8 guys who can rotate and at least 4 or 5 of whom can score. Something like Dayton has but with better D. Next year (and especially 2 years from now) we should have 8 guys who can play, though they will be pretty young.

Also the addition of a center who is actually a center and not a forward playing out of position should help a lot. Will be nice if we can get a guy with big body who is strong enough to put the ball in when he gets it close to the basket.

(03-20-2014 05:20 PM)mikecat Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:16 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Mick could coach like John Wooden and it wouldn't make these guys shoot. Just a terrible offensive squad.

his recruits had 6 years to bring in a shooter and still hasn't!!!

We just had a senior class make it through their time at UC by making the NCAA tourny every year. Something is workin'.

(03-20-2014 05:29 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:20 PM)mikecat Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:16 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Mick could coach like John Wooden and it wouldn't make these guys shoot. Just a terrible offensive squad.

his recruits had 6 years to bring in a shooter and still hasn't!!!

We just had a senior class make it through their time at UC by making the NCAA tourny every year. Something is workin'.

Exactly right. I would bet the UC's three wins in four years is roughly the average we had under Huggins after 1996.

By the way Athlon had UC one and done, Xavier out in the first four, and SMU in the NIT. Sometimes preseason picks aren't that off. To be fair, UC was not suppose to win the league.

I realize people are a little butt hurt after the loss, but it's hilarious to see comments go from how we must move downtown immediately so we can pack in 20K a game or else Mick will leave and then all will be lost, to now with comments that maybe Mick isn't the man for the job.

(03-20-2014 05:33 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:29 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:20 PM)mikecat Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:16 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Mick could coach like John Wooden and it wouldn't make these guys shoot. Just a terrible offensive squad.

his recruits had 6 years to bring in a shooter and still hasn't!!!

We just had a senior class make it through their time at UC by making the NCAA tourny every year. Something is workin'.

Exactly right. I would bet the UC's three wins in four years is roughly the average we had under Huggins after 1996.

By the way Athlon had UC one and done, Xavier out in the first four, and SMU in the NIT. Sometimes preseason picks aren't that off. To be fair, UC was not suppose to win the league.

That is possible but man we had some awful luck in some of those, the WVU prayer 40' 3 at the buzzer, Double OT loss to a loaded UCLA team etc. We are talking about Creighton and Harvard.

Something is working but it needs to jump a level.

(03-20-2014 06:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Something is working but it needs to jump a level.

Yes

im mad

(03-20-2014 05:33 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:29 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:20 PM)mikecat Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 05:16 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Mick could coach like John Wooden and it wouldn't make these guys shoot. Just a terrible offensive squad.

his recruits had 6 years to bring in a shooter and still hasn't!!!

We just had a senior class make it through their time at UC by making the NCAA tourny every year. Something is workin'.

Exactly right. I would bet the UC's three wins in four years is roughly the average we had under Huggins after 1996.

By the way Athlon had UC one and done, Xavier out in the first four, and SMU in the NIT. Sometimes preseason picks aren't that off. To be fair, UC was not suppose to win the league.

Mick has done a solid job,but in my opinion I don't see his style of coaching-recruiting leading us to a elite 8-final 4 defense is only going to carry you so far when you consistently go 4 and 5 minute stretches without scoring you are not making deep runs in march.I don't see him changing his style
,every year we hear this is going to be the year he has depth and athletes and we are going to run and press,and half way thru the year we have a team that plays hard and plays great D but can score the basketball,all the board members who missed Huggs IMO mick is a carbon copy.

(03-20-2014 06:34 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  im mad

I blame your sig for the loss.

Mick is a heck of a coach and he has only gotten better...to get 27 wins out of this group was amazing. He has my full support.

(03-20-2014 07:02 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 06:34 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  im mad

I blame your sig for the loss.

It was was a risky move Coop....alas I chose poorly.

To my Bearcat brethren I must take blame....