(03-18-2014 10:36 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 10:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 09:26 AM)axeme Wrote:  The reward is experience for players in more practices and post-season "win or go home" atmosphere, even at a lesser level than the MAC tourney or NCAA. Players want to play. The end of the season is tough on most teams because they want it to go on. Any chance to keep playing is good for a team, a chance to put a tough conference tourney loss behind them.

UB has some important young players including one of the best freshmen in the league. These tourneys are to build on. It's not really about the fans at all. These Cxx tourneys don't draw that much anyway. It's about the players and the team. It's really unfortunate that the coach and/or the players just want to pack it in for the season. Being disappointed at the end of the season is what happens to most teams. Very few end on a win. It seems a shame to pass on a chance to be one of those few, or at least just take the chance, even if it's another one and done. You just play until you can't play anymore.

Someone brought up a good point over on UB fan... If that money is put into preseason travel games next summer it's better spent there..

That's a bit of a red herring. It is not so much money to spend now that it would make that much impact on a foreign trip next summer. They could come up with the money if they wanted to. It's just an easy excuse when the truth is not so pleasant. It stretches credibility to ask people to believe that UB is in worse financial shape than every other school in all these non-NCAA tournaments. If the football team needed $30k-$40k for some expense, I bet they would (and do) find it.

Certainly, UB has the right to do whatever it wants. But it is going to take a beating in public perception inside the basketball world. Maybe Hurley and White don't care. Maybe the team has quit or the coaches are tired of them and the season and just want it to end. Then maybe it was the right choice. It's hard to imagine how it could be a positive, though, regardless.

Or... They don't want to take a team that's mostly seniors on the road to play in front of 250 fans at American University for the third time in 4 years.

(03-18-2014 10:36 AM)axeme Wrote:  Certainly, UB has the right to do whatever it wants. But it is going to take a beating in public perception inside the basketball world.

The CIT would have to be more highly respected for turning down a CIT be widely noted in the basketball world, never mind for it to be a controversial decision.

And for a senior heavy team, investing the same money in upgrading a summer trip could quite easily be money better spent.

(03-18-2014 02:12 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 10:36 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 10:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 09:26 AM)axeme Wrote:  The reward is experience for players in more practices and post-season "win or go home" atmosphere, even at a lesser level than the MAC tourney or NCAA. Players want to play. The end of the season is tough on most teams because they want it to go on. Any chance to keep playing is good for a team, a chance to put a tough conference tourney loss behind them.

UB has some important young players including one of the best freshmen in the league. These tourneys are to build on. It's not really about the fans at all. These Cxx tourneys don't draw that much anyway. It's about the players and the team. It's really unfortunate that the coach and/or the players just want to pack it in for the season. Being disappointed at the end of the season is what happens to most teams. Very few end on a win. It seems a shame to pass on a chance to be one of those few, or at least just take the chance, even if it's another one and done. You just play until you can't play anymore.

Someone brought up a good point over on UB fan... If that money is put into preseason travel games next summer it's better spent there..

That's a bit of a red herring. It is not so much money to spend now that it would make that much impact on a foreign trip next summer. They could come up with the money if they wanted to. It's just an easy excuse when the truth is not so pleasant. It stretches credibility to ask people to believe that UB is in worse financial shape than every other school in all these non-NCAA tournaments. If the football team needed $30k-$40k for some expense, I bet they would (and do) find it.

Certainly, UB has the right to do whatever it wants. But it is going to take a beating in public perception inside the basketball world. Maybe Hurley and White don't care. Maybe the team has quit or the coaches are tired of them and the season and just want it to end. Then maybe it was the right choice. It's hard to imagine how it could be a positive, though, regardless.

Or... They don't want to take a team that's mostly seniors on the road to play in front of 250 fans at American University for the third time in 4 years.

I would imagine there would be fewer than 250, since their team is in the NCAA and won't be around.

(03-18-2014 02:28 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 10:36 AM)axeme Wrote:  Certainly, UB has the right to do whatever it wants. But it is going to take a beating in public perception inside the basketball world.

The CIT would have to be more highly respected for turning down a CIT be widely noted in the basketball world, never mind for it to be a controversial decision.

And for a senior heavy team, investing the same money in upgrading a summer trip could quite easily be money better spent.

Can someone explain to me the money Buffalo spent on the being in the CIT the past couple of years? The road team appears to have all reasonable costs reimbursed by the CIT for travel, hotel, and dining. They receive 20 free tickets. Unless they were taking a large entourage to these road games on the athletic department dime (maybe this is the problem), it appears to me they could do this with minimal to no cost.

It appears like the home team assumes all the risk, and with Buffalo's attendance history, I would think they could set prices to recover the fee.

This appears to me to be a tournament that is done on the cheap. What am I missing?

(03-18-2014 04:06 PM)bobcat95 Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 02:28 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 10:36 AM)axeme Wrote:  Certainly, UB has the right to do whatever it wants. But it is going to take a beating in public perception inside the basketball world.

The CIT would have to be more highly respected for turning down a CIT be widely noted in the basketball world, never mind for it to be a controversial decision.

And for a senior heavy team, investing the same money in upgrading a summer trip could quite easily be money better spent.

Can someone explain to me the money Buffalo spent on the being in the CIT the past couple of years? The road team appears to have all reasonable costs reimbursed by the CIT for travel, hotel, and dining. They receive 20 free tickets. Unless they were taking a large entourage to these road games on the athletic department dime (maybe this is the problem), it appears to me they could do this with minimal to no cost.

It appears like the home team assumes all the risk, and with Buffalo's attendance history, I would think they could set prices to recover the fee.

This appears to me to be a tournament that is done on the cheap. What am I missing?

I don't see the value added for a senior-heavy team. Now, if the players wanted to play and the coaches said "no", that's a different story entirely. But I doubt that was the case.

And the public perception piece is minimal, as you would have to actually "seek" out what the perception is. These tournaments are undercovered, to the point that even there websites are not up to date with the latest info.

By "basketball world," I did not mean the public, I meant the people on the inside, including those who run these tournaments, who are also some of the same people who run some of the early season tournaments. Big effect? Probably not. Things happen in small increments. Success is about connections, though. Every little bit helps. But no, no one is going to lose any sleep over whether UB is in any tournament or not. But that is part of the problem--some wins in the post-season helps a program out of irrelevancy.

I'm sure we all agree that, for the most part, the average American basketball fan pays no attention to what MAC teams and other teams in the non-major conferences do. But people in the college basketball world do pay attention to who is having success and who is not. You can't win if you don't play.

I'm sure Hurley knows his team better than I do. Deciding the season is over speaks volumes for what he knows. I don't know any coach who thinks his team could win a tournament who would pass on the chance. Perhaps his seniors said they are done. Certainly possible and good reason to decline an invite.

(03-18-2014 06:32 PM)axeme Wrote:  By "basketball world," I did not mean the public, I meant the people on the inside, including those who run these tournaments, who are also some of the same people who run some of the early season tournaments. Big effect? Probably not. Things happen in small increments. Success is about connections, though. Every little bit helps. But no, no one is going to lose any sleep over whether UB is in any tournament or not. But that is part of the problem--some wins in the post-season helps a program out of irrelevancy.

I'm sure we all agree that, for the most part, the average American basketball fan pays no attention to what MAC teams and other teams in the non-major conferences do. But people in the college basketball world do pay attention to who is having success and who is not. You can't win if you don't play.

I'm sure Hurley knows his team better than I do. Deciding the season is over speaks volumes for what he knows. I don't know any coach who thinks his team could win a tournament who would pass on the chance. Perhaps his seniors said they are done. Certainly possible and good reason to decline an invite.

Talk to Indiana's head coach... I think they would have a very good chance of winning the CBI and are swimming in money compared to the MAC schools...

(03-18-2014 02:12 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Or... They don't want to take a team that's mostly seniors on the road to play in front of 250 fans at American University for the third time in 4 years.

So you nod whenever power conference fans use this argument about going on the road to play mid-majors?

(03-18-2014 11:43 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 02:12 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Or... They don't want to take a team that's mostly seniors on the road to play in front of 250 fans at American University for the third time in 4 years.

So you nod whenever power conference fans use this argument about going on the road to play mid-majors?

No I nod about a school deciding to turn down a a fourth trip to the CIT in 5 years when the roster is entirely seniors..

CIT UPDATE

Half way through Rd 1 of the CIT and there is only one upset so far- #98 Canisius lost at home to #218 VMI 111-100.

84 E Michigan
85 Ohio
87 Missouri St
90 Cleveland St
92 Akron
98 Canisius

101 Towson
104 Quinnipiac
115 Sam Houston
116 IPFW
129 Holy Cross
130 Columbia
135 Pacific
145 Murray St
149 Yale
155 San Diego
161 USC Upstate
170 Wright St
184 Valparaiso
189 Grand Canyon
198 E Tenn St

200 North Dakota
208 Nebraska Omaha
214 East Carolina
216 Northern Colorado
218 VMI
228 Norfolk St
231 Brown
239 Texas A&M CC
253 Chattanooga
256 Alabama St
261 Portland St

full schedule- http://www.collegeinsider.com/tournament...esults.php

(03-18-2014 11:00 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 06:32 PM)axeme Wrote:  By "basketball world," I did not mean the public, I meant the people on the inside, including those who run these tournaments, who are also some of the same people who run some of the early season tournaments. Big effect? Probably not. Things happen in small increments. Success is about connections, though. Every little bit helps. But no, no one is going to lose any sleep over whether UB is in any tournament or not. But that is part of the problem--some wins in the post-season helps a program out of irrelevancy.

I'm sure we all agree that, for the most part, the average American basketball fan pays no attention to what MAC teams and other teams in the non-major conferences do. But people in the college basketball world do pay attention to who is having success and who is not. You can't win if you don't play.

I'm sure Hurley knows his team better than I do. Deciding the season is over speaks volumes for what he knows. I don't know any coach who thinks his team could win a tournament who would pass on the chance. Perhaps his seniors said they are done. Certainly possible and good reason to decline an invite.

Talk to Indiana's head coach... I think they would have a very good chance of winning the CBI and are swimming in money compared to the MAC schools...

Well none of us are going to get the chance to talk to Indiana's head coach but although I'm sure everything that you said is correct, I also believe they would harbor a decent amount of fear that they may also lose to a team like Southwest Alabama State A&M and be thoroughly embarrassed. It's funny that they have this holier than thou attitude like they aren't deserving of anything less than the NCAA or NIT even though their own play on the court this year stated otherwise. I get that they actually have an established brand that they don't want to tarnish by losing to a "lesser" program but there seems to be a discrepancy between their brand and their product.

After reading the comments in this thread and on the ubfan board I remain confused by the actions of Hurley and White. Terrible PR work by the UB staff. They knew their fan base, students and media were expecting the Bulls to play again after the loss in CLE. Why not just tell the real reason for excluding the post season options? Fan board trash about "on spring break" (like they are the only school that takes spring break this week), "too costly" (when you can take an away game with almost no expense), seem lame. Why did Hurley/White only play 28 regular season games with no exempt tournament? WMU played 30, Akron 31, Ohio 31. I guess Hurley thinks that running away with his tail between his legs and not telling the fan base the real reason is a quality way to run the program.

(03-18-2014 06:32 PM)axeme Wrote:  By "basketball world," I did not mean the public, I meant the people on the inside, including those who run these tournaments, who are also some of the same people who run some of the early season tournaments. Big effect? Probably not.

Things happen in small increments. Success is about connections, though. Every little bit helps. But no, no one is going to lose any sleep over whether UB is in any tournament or not.

So, in other word, Buffalo is not going to "take a beating". The difference between inside BBall and outside is people inside BBall know what the CIT is. But knowing what the CIT is, there's no reason to think the decision will have any notable impact ... as your walking back the "take a beating" claim goes a long way to conceding.

As far as the money, there's even less reason for a team in Buffalo's circumstance to participate as a road team. Its hard to imagine that Buffalo's seniors would be enthusiastic about a road trip in a tournament that so many ignore, and is looked down on by many who know it exists.

(03-19-2014 11:28 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 06:32 PM)axeme Wrote:  By "basketball world," I did not mean the public, I meant the people on the inside, including those who run these tournaments, who are also some of the same people who run some of the early season tournaments. Big effect? Probably not.

Things happen in small increments. Success is about connections, though. Every little bit helps. But no, no one is going to lose any sleep over whether UB is in any tournament or not.

So, in other word, Buffalo is not going to "take a beating". The difference between inside BBall and outside is people inside BBall know what the CIT is. But knowing what the CIT is, there's no reason to think the decision will have any notable impact ... as your walking back the "take a beating" claim goes a long way to conceding.

As far as the money, there's even less reason for a team in Buffalo's circumstance to participate as a road team. Its hard to imagine that Buffalo's seniors would be enthusiastic about a road trip in a tournament that so many ignore, and is looked down on by many who know it exists.

In a conference that fights so hard for its small spot at the table, not playing is just another concession. To me, it's sad that they want to go out on such an embarrassing performance that they had in Cleveland. But it's their choice. They will be remembered more for their last game than any other game, and it's a shame, particularly for the MAC POY. But if that's how he wants to end his college career, so be it.

I just don't understand not wanting to compete one more time, especially when you have something to prove, even if its just to yourself.

Shame that Buffalo doesn't see that the excitement in these other tournament keep the fans following the programs and helps keep support for the program. A terrible signal to recruits that its all or nothing for the post season. Also lets the bowls know if its between Buffalo and another MAC team for a last bowl spot.....The MAC and the bowl probably passes on Buffalo because lack of excitement for a bowl bid. Ohio fans get excited about any bowl bid and basketball post season. After 40 years between bowl bids we don't take it for granted. We need post season for MAC schools because we don't get six bids to the NCAA like the Big 12. Guarantee you if Kent State had the record and season Buffalo did they take the offer in a second especially with Akron and Ohio in the same tournament. Here at Ohio we would love get another shot at Akron in the later rounds of tournament. Another chance at Akron perhaps again in Athens.

Does Hurley have the same attitude about the NIT? I wonder.

just announced Ohio's (RS) Senior and starting forward Jon Smith is no longer with the team, JC to speak to it in post game. Not good for the Cats. Tip off in 30 minutes.

Having a tough time bring up the video - stuck loading.
Any watching that can have a suggestion. My switch from Chrome ti IE and see if that does it.

Switch to IE and was able to watch the CDW ad, but still loading.

(03-19-2014 06:11 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Having a tough time bring up the video - stuck loading.
Any watching that can have a suggestion. My switch from Chrome ti IE and see if that does it.

Switch to IE and was able to watch the CDW ad, but still loading.

I had problem with ohio feed too, its working for me now though.

Look where WMU is playing tomorrow after getting to play 3 extra "win or go home" games at the end of last year in the CBI. Many WMU fans and Coach Hawk have pointed to that experience as a spring board into this season and our success in the MAC tourney this year.

Just from a resume point of view I don't get Hurley's decision. Taking your team to post season play with the chance to win a championship would only seem to help the future of your program. To each his own but I agree with many above that we fight so hard for a seat at a table that when we decline. Even if it is the kiddie table at least it is a seat.