(03-06-2014 03:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:59 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 12:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Evansville won't be happening - no one is moving from the MVC to the Horizon no matter how many competitiveness or travel cost arguments might be made. NKU, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as school #10. Belmont is nice on paper, but I'm skeptical that the Horizon would add more than 1 school at this time (and NKU is right there for them as a geographic and institutional fit). If the Horizon does decide to go to 12, I know that a lot of Horizon League fans don't seem to like IUPUI, but from my vantage point, I don't see them being that far-fetched as an option. I'd consider them more likely than schools like UMKC or UNO.

I tend to disagree on your point about Evansville. Sure the others won't even consider the HL, but the 'Ville is a different animal. They've been in way over their heads since they've been in the MVC. With the talk, among fans, about Wichita State getting possible invites from leagues like the AAC, MWC and A-10, the Valley doesn't seem as strong as it once was.

Ultimately, even if the MVC were to suffer losses, it doesn't matter. As I've said elsewhere here, s**t always rolls downhill in conference realignment. Weaker leagues simply don't reverse poach stronger leagues (even when the stronger leagues suffer from losses). It never happens. Even if Wichita State leaves (which I don't see happening - they really don't have anywhere to go as much as their fans might dream of the MWC or Big East), the MVC still has a slate of schools with much stronger fan bases compared to the Horizon. If the MVC gets raided, then they'll turn around and almost certainly raid the Horizon again as opposed to the other way around. Now, that might be a good thing for what appears to be your (and my parents') alma mater of UIC as they are in good position to get an invite, but I hope other Horizon fans aren't counting on the reverse happening. The MVC, if only because of the combo of NCAA Tournament money and its fairly strong conference tourney presence in St. Louis, is clearly a step up financially from the Horizon (and ultimately, the money is what matters).

On the csi board, I brought up the most shocking move ever seen in realignment. I said UMKC to the WAC. The only time the sh*t went uphill. They may pull and have been rumored on the Summit board to be pulling an ORU and come back to the Summit. Chi St., and UTPA leaving conf. don't count b/c they were kicked out(Summit/SBC) for violations.

(03-06-2014 03:11 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:06 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Is NKU eligible next year? They seem like a natural fit and I'm guessing that is why they have waited to add them.

They started the move to D-I in 2011. The new rule is 4 total provisional years, I think. So 2015-16 would be the 1st year of post season eligible.

NKU's first year of official Division I eligibility is the '16'17 season. Their first probationary year was the '12-'13 season.

My guess is the HL is not waiting on them to finish their probation to add them, but hopefully them getting a stronger rpi. Although they wouldn't be eligible for conference tournaments and the Dance, their rpi still counts toward our HL overall rpi and would drag us down even further. My team, UIC has already done enough of that this season.

(03-06-2014 03:15 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:59 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:52 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:46 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  If you guys went to 12 I'd like to see Robert Morris, Belmont, NKU. Robert Morris has a fb problem, they'd need to get a fb only home in the Big South like Monmouth did. They seem to be far too good for the NEC in bball.

Although I'd like 10 baseball teams, Belmont and NKU would take our baseball lineup to 8, which would be sufficient enough. Robert Morris doesn't have baseball.

They have been mentioned.

You only need 6 to count as a baseball conf. 8 and RMU would work. But it's probably just NKU and call it a day. Whenever the BE takes St.Louis and Richmond or Dayton, the A-10 could give Belmont a look especially if Dayton stays in the A10. If Dayton is gone I don't see them looking that far west.

Yeah, but who the heck wants to stay at the minimum?

Knowing our commissioner and how he and the Executive Board jacked around in the wake of Butler leaving, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we only added NKU.

I personally don't think Belmont would go to the A-10. Considering the OVC is a perfect fit geographically, the HL is the next best fit geographically. Their travel costs would be much less than going way east to play A-10 schools. The Horizon League schools are closer to Nashville than most A-10 schools.

8 wouldn't be the minimum in baseball you'd have 2 extra. Belmont not going to the A10 would be up to the A10. All the 5 bid ncaa credits and TV deals would make it worth it. However the A10 could stay at 12 or take Siena and Detroit or Holy Cross. No one stands out as a replacement for them. Wichita St. too far west and no St.Louis and maybe Dayton to bridge

(03-06-2014 03:21 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:11 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:06 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Is NKU eligible next year? They seem like a natural fit and I'm guessing that is why they have waited to add them.

They started the move to D-I in 2011. The new rule is 4 total provisional years, I think. So 2015-16 would be the 1st year of post season eligible.

NKU's first year of official Division I eligibility is the '16'17 season. Their first probationary year was the '12-'13 season.

My guess is the HL is not waiting on them to finish their probation to add them, but hopefully them getting a stronger rpi. Although they wouldn't be eligible for conference tournaments and the Dance, their rpi still counts toward our HL overall rpi and would drag us down even further. My team, UIC has already done enough of that this season.

So their announcement year doesn't mean squat. So UN-Omaha should be the same they also announced in 2011. UIW and ACU in 2012(this is their 1st season playing D-I shed.) SIUE, UND, USD, Bryant all got eligible this year, they announced in 2008. GCU and UM_Lowell announced in 2013 and are already playing D-I shed.

(03-06-2014 03:22 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:15 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:59 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:52 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:46 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  If you guys went to 12 I'd like to see Robert Morris, Belmont, NKU. Robert Morris has a fb problem, they'd need to get a fb only home in the Big South like Monmouth did. They seem to be far too good for the NEC in bball.

Although I'd like 10 baseball teams, Belmont and NKU would take our baseball lineup to 8, which would be sufficient enough. Robert Morris doesn't have baseball.

They have been mentioned.

You only need 6 to count as a baseball conf. 8 and RMU would work. But it's probably just NKU and call it a day. Whenever the BE takes St.Louis and Richmond or Dayton, the A-10 could give Belmont a look especially if Dayton stays in the A10. If Dayton is gone I don't see them looking that far west.

Yeah, but who the heck wants to stay at the minimum?

Knowing our commissioner and how he and the Executive Board jacked around in the wake of Butler leaving, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we only added NKU.

I personally don't think Belmont would go to the A-10. Considering the OVC is a perfect fit geographically, the HL is the next best fit geographically. Their travel costs would be much less than going way east to play A-10 schools. The Horizon League schools are closer to Nashville than most A-10 schools.

8 wouldn't be the minimum in baseball you'd have 2 extra. Belmont not going to the A10 would be up to the A10. All the 5 bid ncaa credits and TV deals would make it worth it. However the A10 could stay at 12 or take Siena and Detroit or Holy Cross. No one stands out as a replacement for them. Wichita St. too far west and no St.Louis and maybe Dayton to bridge

The minimum comment was made because I didn't want to just stay at the minimum of 6, I wanted more...in case of being poached again.

Point of reference: How would the NCAA credit benefit them? They weren't a part of the league when the A-10 earned them. How do they figure on getting any?

And no one stands out as a replacement for who... or is it whom?

(03-06-2014 03:25 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:21 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:11 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:06 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Is NKU eligible next year? They seem like a natural fit and I'm guessing that is why they have waited to add them.

They started the move to D-I in 2011. The new rule is 4 total provisional years, I think. So 2015-16 would be the 1st year of post season eligible.

NKU's first year of official Division I eligibility is the '16'17 season. Their first probationary year was the '12-'13 season.

My guess is the HL is not waiting on them to finish their probation to add them, but hopefully them getting a stronger rpi. Although they wouldn't be eligible for conference tournaments and the Dance, their rpi still counts toward our HL overall rpi and would drag us down even further. My team, UIC has already done enough of that this season.

So their announcement year doesn't mean squat. So UN-Omaha should be the same they also announced in 2011. UIW and ACU in 2012(this is their 1st season playing D-I shed.) SIUE, UND, USD, Bryant all got eligible this year, they announced in 2008. GCU and UM_Lowell announced in 2013 and are already playing D-I shed.

This is UND and USD's second year of eligibility.

I thought Omaha was 2015-2016 but maybe it is 2016-2017.

They start counting once you actually begin participating, not when you make the announcement.

(03-06-2014 03:15 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:59 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 12:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Evansville won't be happening - no one is moving from the MVC to the Horizon no matter how many competitiveness or travel cost arguments might be made. NKU, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as school #10. Belmont is nice on paper, but I'm skeptical that the Horizon would add more than 1 school at this time (and NKU is right there for them as a geographic and institutional fit). If the Horizon does decide to go to 12, I know that a lot of Horizon League fans don't seem to like IUPUI, but from my vantage point, I don't see them being that far-fetched as an option. I'd consider them more likely than schools like UMKC or UNO.

I tend to disagree on your point about Evansville. Sure the others won't even consider the HL, but the 'Ville is a different animal. They've been in way over their heads since they've been in the MVC. With the talk, among fans, about Wichita State getting possible invites from leagues like the AAC, MWC and A-10, the Valley doesn't seem as strong as it once was.

Ultimately, even if the MVC were to suffer losses, it doesn't matter. As I've said elsewhere here, s**t always rolls downhill in conference realignment. Weaker leagues simply don't reverse poach stronger leagues (even when the stronger leagues suffer from losses). It never happens. Even if Wichita State leaves (which I don't see happening - they really don't have anywhere to go as much as their fans might dream of the MWC or Big East), the MVC still has a slate of schools with much stronger fan bases compared to the Horizon. If the MVC gets raided, then they'll turn around and almost certainly raid the Horizon again as opposed to the other way around. Now, that might be a good thing for what appears to be your (and my parents') alma mater of UIC as they are in good position to get an invite, but I hope other Horizon fans aren't counting on the reverse happening. The MVC, if only because of the combo of NCAA Tournament money and its fairly strong conference tourney presence in St. Louis, is clearly a step up financially from the Horizon (and ultimately, the money is what matters).

On the csi board, I brought up the most shocking move ever seen in realignment. I said UMKC to the WAC. The only time the sh*t went uphill. They may pull and have been rumored on the Summit board to be pulling an ORU and come back to the Summit. Chi St., and UTPA leaving conf. don't count b/c they were kicked out(Summit/SBC) for violations.

The Summit and Patriot saw it from different perspectives. Everybody started hopping off the Summit for whatever reason, and now here they come back; meanwhile, now the Ivy Afterthoughts could probably pick up any number of different programs. If the Patriot addresses the academic index matter, who knows how far they could reach. Schools don't need the Patriot's Ivy-approval to know they're good schools, and while the Patriot's been a joke in most sports, here they are taking some interesting programs while pursuing others.

Someone I don't hear coming up in this, but I think we should, is Murray State. I don't know if HL lands them, or maybe they do and MVFC gets their football?

(03-06-2014 03:26 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:22 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:15 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:59 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:52 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  Although I'd like 10 baseball teams, Belmont and NKU would take our baseball lineup to 8, which would be sufficient enough. Robert Morris doesn't have baseball.

They have been mentioned.

You only need 6 to count as a baseball conf. 8 and RMU would work. But it's probably just NKU and call it a day. Whenever the BE takes St.Louis and Richmond or Dayton, the A-10 could give Belmont a look especially if Dayton stays in the A10. If Dayton is gone I don't see them looking that far west.

Yeah, but who the heck wants to stay at the minimum?

Knowing our commissioner and how he and the Executive Board jacked around in the wake of Butler leaving, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we only added NKU.

I personally don't think Belmont would go to the A-10. Considering the OVC is a perfect fit geographically, the HL is the next best fit geographically. Their travel costs would be much less than going way east to play A-10 schools. The Horizon League schools are closer to Nashville than most A-10 schools.

8 wouldn't be the minimum in baseball you'd have 2 extra. Belmont not going to the A10 would be up to the A10. All the 5 bid ncaa credits and TV deals would make it worth it. However the A10 could stay at 12 or take Siena and Detroit or Holy Cross. No one stands out as a replacement for them. Wichita St. too far west and no St.Louis and maybe Dayton to bridge

The minimum comment was made because I didn't want to just stay at the minimum of 6, I wanted more...in case of being poached again.

Point of reference: How would the NCAA credit benefit them? They weren't a part of the league when the A-10 earned them. How do they figure on getting any?

And no one stands out as a replacement for who... or is it whom?

How, when they join. A10 gets say 5 teams in(about their usual) the year they join they get their conf. share of it, even if they aren't one of the 5, plus their share of the tv deal. Who, whom, I don't know. Whatever sounds right to you. I like to say that team needs an RB(if I say the whole word, running back, then a) or needs a RB even though a is correct, it sounds weird

(03-06-2014 03:44 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  They start counting once you actually begin participating, not when you make the announcement.

by announce I mean apply. UIW & ACU applied in 2012 and GCU and UML in 2013 but both are in their 1st D-I season this year. I wonder if they become eligible the same year. I don't know how it goes after they got rid of that exploratory year, just 4 provisional now I think.

(03-06-2014 03:46 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:15 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:59 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 12:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Evansville won't be happening - no one is moving from the MVC to the Horizon no matter how many competitiveness or travel cost arguments might be made. NKU, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as school #10. Belmont is nice on paper, but I'm skeptical that the Horizon would add more than 1 school at this time (and NKU is right there for them as a geographic and institutional fit). If the Horizon does decide to go to 12, I know that a lot of Horizon League fans don't seem to like IUPUI, but from my vantage point, I don't see them being that far-fetched as an option. I'd consider them more likely than schools like UMKC or UNO.

I tend to disagree on your point about Evansville. Sure the others won't even consider the HL, but the 'Ville is a different animal. They've been in way over their heads since they've been in the MVC. With the talk, among fans, about Wichita State getting possible invites from leagues like the AAC, MWC and A-10, the Valley doesn't seem as strong as it once was.

Ultimately, even if the MVC were to suffer losses, it doesn't matter. As I've said elsewhere here, s**t always rolls downhill in conference realignment. Weaker leagues simply don't reverse poach stronger leagues (even when the stronger leagues suffer from losses). It never happens. Even if Wichita State leaves (which I don't see happening - they really don't have anywhere to go as much as their fans might dream of the MWC or Big East), the MVC still has a slate of schools with much stronger fan bases compared to the Horizon. If the MVC gets raided, then they'll turn around and almost certainly raid the Horizon again as opposed to the other way around. Now, that might be a good thing for what appears to be your (and my parents') alma mater of UIC as they are in good position to get an invite, but I hope other Horizon fans aren't counting on the reverse happening. The MVC, if only because of the combo of NCAA Tournament money and its fairly strong conference tourney presence in St. Louis, is clearly a step up financially from the Horizon (and ultimately, the money is what matters).

On the csi board, I brought up the most shocking move ever seen in realignment. I said UMKC to the WAC. The only time the sh*t went uphill. They may pull and have been rumored on the Summit board to be pulling an ORU and come back to the Summit. Chi St., and UTPA leaving conf. don't count b/c they were kicked out(Summit/SBC) for violations.

The Summit and Patriot saw it from different perspectives. Everybody started hopping off the Summit for whatever reason, and now here they come back; meanwhile, now the Ivy Afterthoughts could probably pick up any number of different programs. If the Patriot addresses the academic index matter, who knows how far they could reach. Schools don't need the Patriot's Ivy-approval to know they're good schools, and while the Patriot's been a joke in most sports, here they are taking some interesting programs while pursuing others.

Someone I don't hear coming up in this, but I think we should, is Murray State. I don't know if HL lands them, or maybe they do and MVFC gets their football?

Currently no room in the MVFC - it would take at least one member leaving for that.

The only way you are getting in the MVFC is if you are in the MVC or Summit.

(03-06-2014 03:46 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:15 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:59 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 12:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Evansville won't be happening - no one is moving from the MVC to the Horizon no matter how many competitiveness or travel cost arguments might be made. NKU, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as school #10. Belmont is nice on paper, but I'm skeptical that the Horizon would add more than 1 school at this time (and NKU is right there for them as a geographic and institutional fit). If the Horizon does decide to go to 12, I know that a lot of Horizon League fans don't seem to like IUPUI, but from my vantage point, I don't see them being that far-fetched as an option. I'd consider them more likely than schools like UMKC or UNO.

I tend to disagree on your point about Evansville. Sure the others won't even consider the HL, but the 'Ville is a different animal. They've been in way over their heads since they've been in the MVC. With the talk, among fans, about Wichita State getting possible invites from leagues like the AAC, MWC and A-10, the Valley doesn't seem as strong as it once was.

Ultimately, even if the MVC were to suffer losses, it doesn't matter. As I've said elsewhere here, s**t always rolls downhill in conference realignment. Weaker leagues simply don't reverse poach stronger leagues (even when the stronger leagues suffer from losses). It never happens. Even if Wichita State leaves (which I don't see happening - they really don't have anywhere to go as much as their fans might dream of the MWC or Big East), the MVC still has a slate of schools with much stronger fan bases compared to the Horizon. If the MVC gets raided, then they'll turn around and almost certainly raid the Horizon again as opposed to the other way around. Now, that might be a good thing for what appears to be your (and my parents') alma mater of UIC as they are in good position to get an invite, but I hope other Horizon fans aren't counting on the reverse happening. The MVC, if only because of the combo of NCAA Tournament money and its fairly strong conference tourney presence in St. Louis, is clearly a step up financially from the Horizon (and ultimately, the money is what matters).

On the csi board, I brought up the most shocking move ever seen in realignment. I said UMKC to the WAC. The only time the sh*t went uphill. They may pull and have been rumored on the Summit board to be pulling an ORU and come back to the Summit. Chi St., and UTPA leaving conf. don't count b/c they were kicked out(Summit/SBC) for violations.

The Summit and Patriot saw it from different perspectives. Everybody started hopping off the Summit for whatever reason, and now here they come back; meanwhile, now the Ivy Afterthoughts could probably pick up any number of different programs. If the Patriot addresses the academic index matter, who knows how far they could reach. Schools don't need the Patriot's Ivy-approval to know they're good schools, and while the Patriot's been a joke in most sports, here they are taking some interesting programs while pursuing others.

Someone I don't hear coming up in this, but I think we should, is Murray State. I don't know if HL lands them, or maybe they do and MVFC gets their football?

That's the problem, MVFC refused to go to 11 w/ UND so why do it for Murray St. Would they go to 12? Or is Missouri St. gone to the SBC. That changes the whole picture.

(03-06-2014 03:46 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Someone I don't hear coming up in this, but I think we should, is Murray State. I don't know if HL lands them, or maybe they do and MVFC gets their football?

Initially on the Horizon League message board when Belmont was brought up, Murray State was brought up as well. The problem with them is football and no soccer. HL Fans also thought that by Murray being a founding member of the OVC and pretty much the Big Fish in a small pond, getting NCAA bids every other year or so (before Belmont got there), that they wouldn't come along.

If some kind of way the HL garnered Belmont, Murray State and NKU, that would seemingly make our conference a multi-bid league for the foreseeable future.

SBC, MAC, or CUSA...I think MoSU's gone very soon. Illinois State's looking, too.

Murray State might be worth it for the basketball pickup. I think they want to be in SoCon more, but who knows...

(03-06-2014 04:20 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  SBC, MAC, or CUSA...I think MoSU's gone very soon. Illinois State's looking, too.

Murray State might be worth it for the basketball pickup. I think they want to be in SoCon more, but who knows...

why would you think they want in the SoCon?

(03-06-2014 02:22 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  What is the role of a "travel partner"? Why do you need one? At some point, it seems as if conferences are looking to realign just because the big boys are doing it.

Travel partners make travel more cost efficient. When Loyola was in the Horizon along with UIC it made it efficient for Milwaukee and their travel partner Green Bay to come into town for the weekend and not go anywhere, with Loyola and Chicago being 12 miles apart. The same for Detroit and Oakland now. They're only 30-40 minutes apart. Now Chicago and Valparaiso are travel partners being only an hour or so away. Our schools for instance would travel to Wisconsin to play Milwaukee and Green Bay. In the Horizon our travel partners are more cost effective because they are no more than a couple hours from each other with most of the schools being on average an hour from their travel partner.

_________________________________________________________

How does that make travel cost more efficient? Milwaukee and Green Bay aren't traveling together when one of them has a game against a Chicago team. What you are describing is just looking for compatible conference partners within a compact geographical footprint.

Somebody suggested that St Louis would make a good travel partner for Creighton in the Big East. All that does is give Creighton one game a year that they don't have to travel as far to. At the same time, it gives all the eastern schools one more opponent they have to fly to. Travel considerations are only enhanced when you add a school that is close to the majority of conference schools, not just one that is located at the edge of the footprint.

________________________________________________________



No way are we realigning because the Big Boys are doing it. At the mid-major level, expansion and realignment, especially for the basketball-centric leagues is a matter of survival pure and simple.

Survival against the threat of what? If all that is happening is that conferences are getting bigger (and ultimately fewer) then the number of teams getting invited to the NCAAT will shrink. If there were six leagues with 8 teams each before, and they expand to become four leagues of 12 teams, they will, in the aggregate, lose two AQ spots, with little probability of replacing them with at-large bids.

(03-06-2014 05:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:22 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  What is the role of a "travel partner"? Why do you need one? At some point, it seems as if conferences are looking to realign just because the big boys are doing it.

Travel partners make travel more cost efficient. When Loyola was in the Horizon along with UIC it made it efficient for Milwaukee and their travel partner Green Bay to come into town for the weekend and not go anywhere, with Loyola and Chicago being 12 miles apart. The same for Detroit and Oakland now. They're only 30-40 minutes apart. Now Chicago and Valparaiso are travel partners being only an hour or so away. Our schools for instance would travel to Wisconsin to play Milwaukee and Green Bay. In the Horizon our travel partners are more cost effective because they are no more than a couple hours from each other with most of the schools being on average an hour from their travel partner.

_________________________________________________________

How does that make travel cost more efficient? Milwaukee and Green Bay aren't traveling together when one of them has a game against a Chicago team. What you are describing is just looking for compatible conference partners within a compact geographical footprint.

Somebody suggested that St Louis would make a good travel partner for Creighton in the Big East. All that does is give Creighton one game a year that they don't have to travel as far to. At the same time, it gives all the eastern schools one more opponent they have to fly to. Travel considerations are only enhanced when you add a school that is close to the majority of conference schools, not just one that is located at the edge of the footprint.

________________________________________________________



No way are we realigning because the Big Boys are doing it. At the mid-major level, expansion and realignment, especially for the basketball-centric leagues is a matter of survival pure and simple.

Survival against the threat of what? If all that is happening is that conferences are getting bigger (and ultimately fewer) then the number of teams getting invited to the NCAAT will shrink. If there were six leagues with 8 teams each before, and they expand to become four leagues of 12 teams, they will, in the aggregate, lose two AQ spots, with little probability of replacing them with at-large bids.

it seem for bball conf. 10 is easier to schedule for than 9. Horizon has to protect against MVC and A10 as they've lost schools to both recently. And no the AQs have not gone down, they've went up from 31 to 32. But yes the odds of getting in by winning your conf have gotten harder for low level 1 bid conf. that have more schools now but that's b/c D-I has added 33 schools to D-I since 2000.

(03-06-2014 05:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:22 PM)Chuck A Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  What is the role of a "travel partner"? Why do you need one? At some point, it seems as if conferences are looking to realign just because the big boys are doing it.

Travel partners make travel more cost efficient. When Loyola was in the Horizon along with UIC it made it efficient for Milwaukee and their travel partner Green Bay to come into town for the weekend and not go anywhere, with Loyola and Chicago being 12 miles apart. The same for Detroit and Oakland now. They're only 30-40 minutes apart. Now Chicago and Valparaiso are travel partners being only an hour or so away. Our schools for instance would travel to Wisconsin to play Milwaukee and Green Bay. In the Horizon our travel partners are more cost effective because they are no more than a couple hours from each other with most of the schools being on average an hour from their travel partner.

_________________________________________________________

How does that make travel cost more efficient? Milwaukee and Green Bay aren't traveling together when one of them has a game against a Chicago team. What you are describing is just looking for compatible conference partners within a compact geographical footprint.

Somebody suggested that St Louis would make a good travel partner for Creighton in the Big East. All that does is give Creighton one game a year that they don't have to travel as far to. At the same time, it gives all the eastern schools one more opponent they have to fly to. Travel considerations are only enhanced when you add a school that is close to the majority of conference schools, not just one that is located at the edge of the footprint.

________________________________________________________



No way are we realigning because the Big Boys are doing it. At the mid-major level, expansion and realignment, especially for the basketball-centric leagues is a matter of survival pure and simple.

Survival against the threat of what? If all that is happening is that conferences are getting bigger (and ultimately fewer) then the number of teams getting invited to the NCAAT will shrink. If there were six leagues with 8 teams each before, and they expand to become four leagues of 12 teams, they will, in the aggregate, lose two AQ spots, with little probability of replacing them with at-large bids.

Survival against the threat of mediocrity and/or even extinction a la the Great West conference. If conferences like the Missouri Valley, A-10, AAC, Big East and other leagues continue poaching and picking apart the "lesser" leagues, then those lesser leagues will, as I mentioned, become mediocre...not being able to participate in the NCAA because they'll have to eventually invite DII teams that will take 4 years to become eligible and then maybe another 6-10 before they are relevant at the Division I level, all the while sinking their new conferences with awful rpi's, records and SOS's, while in the meantime the conferences that have invited your team, for the most part are enjoying success.

(03-06-2014 04:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:20 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  SBC, MAC, or CUSA...I think MoSU's gone very soon. Illinois State's looking, too.

Murray State might be worth it for the basketball pickup. I think they want to be in SoCon more, but who knows...

why would you think they want in the SoCon?

Stability, which I know sounds weird for SoCon, but it's about getting into that core of ETSU, UTC, and WCU. Some MSU fans weren't thrilled they got "passed over" for ETSU...I never knew they even wanted it.

The OVC does have too many schools gunning for other pastures others want. A lot of OVC schools figured their ceiling was where it was because of that queue. Schools like SEMSU, EIU, SIUE...that's the MVC and Summit line (until Summit became a hot mess). I've heard "Belmont to" as a prefix to Horizon, CAA, A10...it's obvious OVC isn't where they ultimately wanted to be. EKU and JSU are exploring FBS viability. What's left are these tiny public schools that make OVC very much a bus league, but a directionless one.