(02-18-2014 01:29 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Paralyzing fear ... similar to losing to Purdue when they are terrible. Maybe similar to back when Cooper had a hard time winning against Illinois. There was a small stretch where Minn wasn't suppossed to win and did.

osu came in here in 2002 to collect a check, thought the recruiting gates would open, and Cincinnati would finally be a osu stronghold. Unfortunately for osu, UC was one dropped pass from winning a game they dominated statistically, recruiting stayed the same, and Cincinnati is still not an osu stronghold. It's easy to understand. Keep game in columbus, where osu has more control and the home crowd.

Are you implying that Ohio State has recently been afraid of Purdue, Illinois or Minnesota? Losing to a team doesn't mean you are afraid of them, it means you lost.

It would be stupid to think that one game would dramatically swing recruiting. It will take time. Meyer's and Coombs' connections will help, and the success big gets like Adolphus Washington, Jalin Marshall (does Middletown count in the Cincy metro area?) and Sam Hubbard would help gain momentum.

(02-18-2014 01:45 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Here’s the deal about that 2002 game. I think what bothered Ohio State more about the game was not that UC nearly won, but as the game wore on the crowd became more and more supportive of UC. In the beginning, I swear it seemed like 65-70% of the crowd was in support of the Buckeyes. As the game wore on that number shrank and by the 4th quarter I would venture it flipped the other way.

Gordon Gee stated it in the past, Ohio State wants to be loved by everyone in Ohio. It pained them to see people booing Ohio State in the borders of Ohio. They do not want that to happen again and for that reason they will not play the Bearcats here.
It is not a matter of winning or losing on the field. They do not want to lose fan.

That makes a lot of sense. I'll take your word for it about the game, as I was 10 and not living in Cincinnati, but that line of thought makes a lot of sense.

Ben,

Thank you for visiting a board that can often be rather vitriolic toward Ohio State fans - you've stuck with the thread and made some great points. The unfortunate part of all of this is that the decision Ohio State has made about not playing in Cincinnati seems to be born out of cost-benefit analysis, ie. what is worth for us in the PR/ Marketing realm if we go there and lose vs. the expense of cancelling the game. Just play the game and let fans have fun with giving each other a hard time!

(02-18-2014 01:39 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:10 PM)bearcats23 Wrote:  Wow so maybe, just maybe, it wasn't purely a financial decision to move the game back to OSU? It's no secret that OSU has been trying to get a stronghold on the Cincinnati high school talent that they have struggled to recruit in the past. Playing a game in Cincy is a perfect way to get the exposure in Cincy and reinforce their in state dominance. Maybe in the years after that game was scheduled they saw Cincinnati football start to get competitive and they realized how damaging it would be to lose to little old Cincinnati (especially after that little scare they had last time at PBS).

You see, this is a perfect example of the attitude that pisses UC fans off. I live in OSU country and I have heard it over and over, "well obviously they moved it because they will make more money in Columbus, blah, blah, blah". Well then why in the heck would they schedule the game in Cincy in the first place? Every OSU fan that has discussed this game with me has absolutely positively refused to admit that Cincinnati's resurgence and the possibility of losing to UC had anything to do with this game being moved back to Columbus. It was purely financial they all say, just like you said. But no one has ever given a good reason on why the game would be scheduled in Cincinnati in the first place if it didn't make financial sense. The risk/reward for OSU playing in Cincy was no longer worth it, period. Maybe the financial aspect was a factor, but with the timing of everything and how it went down I refuse to believe that it was the primary reason.

And then the arrogant OSU fans always respond with the same comments of "yeah, sure, we're sooo scared of playing UC. We played at USC, at Miami, at wherever, but nooo, we're scared of UC". Just like your comment above. I'm not saying OSU is scared to play UC because they think they're going to lose, I'm saying they're bitching out because a loss to UC hurts OSU's program a heck of a lot more than a loss at any "name" program out of state, and suddenly the potential for picking up an L in Cincy is a lot greater than in was when the game was initially scheduled. So in a way, yeah, they are scared. But OSU fans are so flipping proud and arrogant that they refuse to admit that's even a realistic possibility. That is a primary reason why I don't like 99% of OSU fans. Arrogant as hell. But of course you can't see this because you are one.

Icing on the cake is that they played their spring game in Cincy this year. Let's swap it out with a game that we can't lose, great strategy! But wouldn't it make more money for them if they played that game at Columbus? Now I'm confused.

The spring game couldn't be in Columbus this year because the Shoe was undergoing renovations (I think they were doing something with the turf).

I agree that it's a case of risk vs reward. The reward is strengthening a relatively weak presence in Cincinnati, and I don't know anyone who would really debate you on that. Of course losing at Cincinnati is worse than losing at USC or at Miami etc, I don't know anyone who would debate you on that either. The part I bolded is the crucial part that I'm not sure is ubiquitous among UC fans. I think the assertion that OSU is scared of OSU definitely implies that they think they would lose, not that they think that UC is getting better and that the chance of losing increased from 12% to 21% (or whatever). Although I might not agree with using the word "scared" because of those implications, I agree that someone could say the risk of losing to Cincinnati increased and combined with losing money did not overcome the reward of gaining inroads with Cincinnati. Maybe they were already thinking of the spring game, maybe not.

(02-18-2014 02:38 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  It seems like most cincinnati recruits just want to get out of cincinnati....and Cbus really isnt an upgrade.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

This isn't specific to Cincinnati. I bet if someone tracked it, they would fine that recruits are now more interested than ever in getting the heck out of town or even out of their home region. I don't think it has anything to do with our team or our city. Kids (not even just athletes) want to get away now IMO.

(02-18-2014 02:39 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:29 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Paralyzing fear ... similar to losing to Purdue when they are terrible. Maybe similar to back when Cooper had a hard time winning against Illinois. There was a small stretch where Minn wasn't suppossed to win and did.

osu came in here in 2002 to collect a check, thought the recruiting gates would open, and Cincinnati would finally be a osu stronghold. Unfortunately for osu, UC was one dropped pass from winning a game they dominated statistically, recruiting stayed the same, and Cincinnati is still not an osu stronghold. It's easy to understand. Keep game in columbus, where osu has more control and the home crowd.

Are you implying that Ohio State has recently been afraid of Purdue, Illinois or Minnesota? Losing to a team doesn't mean you are afraid of them, it means you lost.

It would be stupid to think that one game would dramatically swing recruiting. It will take time. Meyer's and Coombs' connections will help, and the success big gets like Adolphus Washington, Jalin Marshall (does Middletown count in the Cincy metro area?) and Sam Hubbard would help gain momentum.

You just made my point of how ridiculous your sarcasm was regarding paralyzing fear.

Coomb's didn't really do a great job recruiting Cincinnati, while at UC. His best recruiting ties were in Indiana. osu has always pulled one or maybe two major recruits from the area. Washington was one major local recruit for that season. osu's been trying to gain a recruiting stronghold in Cincinnati for a very long time. Meyer may gain a little traction though with his local ties, however time will tell.

How many recruits from cincy did Osu even get this year? one?

(02-18-2014 01:57 PM)indycat Wrote:  What really eats at the OSU faithful is that Greater Cincinnati has consistenly refused to bow before the throne of the bucknut. They just can't understand why Cincy folks won't get on board. I have bad news for the Buckeye faithful--bowing before OSU is even less likely to happen in the future. Whether the folks in Cowtown care to admit it or not, Cincinnati has major college sports, competing at a high level in football and basketball these days. But there's so much more here.

UC is now attracting record numbers of students from across Ohio who will become loyal Bearcats, not Buckeyes. For them, what's not to like? A campus ranked as one of the finest in the world (try finding OSU on ANY list of most beautiful campuses), major league sports, and arts/cultural institutions that compare favorably with top five U.S. cities. Cincy now nearly matches Cleveland as the largest metro area in the state. And a sizable cohort resides in northern Kentucky with no interest in OSU whatsoever.

A friend who is an OSU fan generally likes UC; even attends some games. But there is still condescension. He was deeply offended by those clever t-shirts from a few years ago--"Buckeye State" with the C-Paw stylized in the lettering and the outline of Ohio. Last time I checked, Ohio State doesn't own Ohio's nickname, Buckeye State.

Would Indiana fans have been as upset if Purdue printed t-shirts with a "Hoosier State" logo, an outline of Indiana and some clever play on Purdue pride? I think not; IU fans aren't that insecure.

But you better have the blessing of the royal court of bucknut in Ohio if you want to use the words Buckeye State. Maybe if being in the top two in athletic spending could only buy them some more basketball championships (last one 54 years ago) or a better winning percentage against the SEC in bowl games they wouldn't be so sensitive. Then again, maybe not.

I bet some IU fans would be upset. I bet a lot of them would brush it off too. If it was like the bUCkeye state shirts, I bet some would realize that it really means that Purdue is a part of the Hoosier state. I like those shirts. I have one and I wear it.
You don't have to sell me on Cincinnati. I love the city.
I've had the conversation about campus beauty before, and maybe it's because I'm not an architect, but I don't get it. I don't like that UC feels like its just part of downtown, but I know that's my personal opinion. I felt the same way about Pitt. At least some UC students don't love the campus apparently: check this out . But I do know that Cincinnati is generally ranked highly.

(02-18-2014 03:37 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  How many recruits from cincy did Osu even get this year? one?

Yeah, Sam Hubbard from Moeller, but I think the only other one they offered was Derek Kief from Lasalle who went to Bama. The only got 2 recruits from the Columbus area though. OSU signed 4 from Cleveland and 2 from Akron and the rest were out of state. But more importantly, this makes 3 years in a row that OSU has gotten the top guy out of the greater Cincy area (Washington, Marshall, Hubbard)

(02-18-2014 02:43 PM)geef Wrote:  Ben,

Thank you for visiting a board that can often be rather vitriolic toward Ohio State fans - you've stuck with the thread and made some great points. The unfortunate part of all of this is that the decision Ohio State has made about not playing in Cincinnati seems to be born out of cost-benefit analysis, ie. what is worth for us in the PR/ Marketing realm if we go there and lose vs. the expense of cancelling the game. Just play the game and let fans have fun with giving each other a hard time!

Thanks, and I appreciate those who are civil. The fun part about being a fan is the games! I'll be graduating but I definitely hope to take my girlfriend (will be graduating UC) to the game this fall. Looking forward to it.

I wouldnt call Hubbard the top recruit by any stretch. Daniel Cage and Derek Kief were more highly touted.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I dont believe Uc showed interest in Hubbard either

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

(02-18-2014 03:28 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  You just made my point of how ridiculous your sarcasm was regarding paralyzing fear.

Coomb's didn't really do a great job recruiting Cincinnati, while at UC. His best recruiting ties were in Indiana. osu has always pulled one or maybe two major recruits from the area. Washington was one major local recruit for that season. osu's been trying to gain a recruiting stronghold in Cincinnati for a very long time. Meyer may gain a little traction though with his local ties, however time will tell.

I'm not sure what the point was, but ok.

I don't know anything about Coombs recruiting while at UC, but I'm sure coaching HS in the area for a long time helped him some. He was the lead recruiter for Hubbard this past year and is doing the same for the main target this year, St. X's Justin Hilliard. This link says he was hired in part to recruit Cincy. You're right, time will tell.

Unfortunately, anything you gain by having Coombs for recruiting is lost with his coaching. UC's DBs were awful under him, OSU was awful last year. That is why he got demoted.

(02-18-2014 04:03 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 03:37 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  How many recruits from cincy did Osu even get this year? one?

Yeah, Sam Hubbard from Moeller, but I think the only other one they offered was Derek Kief from Lasalle who went to Bama. The only got 2 recruits from the Columbus area though. OSU signed 4 from Cleveland and 2 from Akron and the rest were out of state. But more importantly, this makes 3 years in a row that OSU has gotten the top guy out of the greater Cincy area (Washington, Marshall, Hubbard)

Isn't Marshall from Middletown? That's not part of Cincy

(02-18-2014 04:28 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:03 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 03:37 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  How many recruits from cincy did Osu even get this year? one?

Yeah, Sam Hubbard from Moeller, but I think the only other one they offered was Derek Kief from Lasalle who went to Bama. The only got 2 recruits from the Columbus area though. OSU signed 4 from Cleveland and 2 from Akron and the rest were out of state. But more importantly, this makes 3 years in a row that OSU has gotten the top guy out of the greater Cincy area (Washington, Marshall, Hubbard)

Isn't Marshall from Middletown? That's not part of Cincy

Indeed

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

The last top recruits from Cincinnati that OSU has gotten are Washington and Andrew Norwell. I can't think of many others. Heck, Alabama and Michigan State have done a much better job of recruiting Cincinnati.

(02-18-2014 04:29 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:28 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:03 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 03:37 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  How many recruits from cincy did Osu even get this year? one?

Yeah, Sam Hubbard from Moeller, but I think the only other one they offered was Derek Kief from Lasalle who went to Bama. The only got 2 recruits from the Columbus area though. OSU signed 4 from Cleveland and 2 from Akron and the rest were out of state. But more importantly, this makes 3 years in a row that OSU has gotten the top guy out of the greater Cincy area (Washington, Marshall, Hubbard)

Isn't Marshall from Middletown? That's not part of Cincy

Indeed

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

That always gets me. The people from Middletown I worked with had 513 area codes so that's what I deferred to. It's close. It looks like its included in the census for what it's worth. In that case, OSU didn't offer Shane Jones.

(02-18-2014 04:36 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:29 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:28 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:03 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 03:37 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  How many recruits from cincy did Osu even get this year? one?

Yeah, Sam Hubbard from Moeller, but I think the only other one they offered was Derek Kief from Lasalle who went to Bama. The only got 2 recruits from the Columbus area though. OSU signed 4 from Cleveland and 2 from Akron and the rest were out of state. But more importantly, this makes 3 years in a row that OSU has gotten the top guy out of the greater Cincy area (Washington, Marshall, Hubbard)

Isn't Marshall from Middletown? That's not part of Cincy

Indeed

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

That always gets me. The people from Middletown I worked with had 513 area codes so that's what I deferred to. It's close. It looks like its included in the census for what it's worth. In that case, OSU didn't offer Shane Jones.

Takes me close to an hour to get up to middletown and im a half hour north of Cincinnati as it is

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

(02-18-2014 04:35 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  The last top recruits from Cincinnati that OSU has gotten are Washington and Andrew Norwell. I can't think of many others. Heck, Alabama and Michigan State have done a much better job of recruiting Cincinnati.

Boston College and Notre Dame do really well too, but MSU and BC don't recruit the same caliber of player that Alabama and OSU do.

(02-18-2014 04:40 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:35 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  The last top recruits from Cincinnati that OSU has gotten are Washington and Andrew Norwell. I can't think of many others. Heck, Alabama and Michigan State have done a much better job of recruiting Cincinnati.

Boston College and Notre Dame do really well too, but MSU and BC don't recruit the same caliber of player that Alabama and OSU do.

I would put up Rush and Madaris against Washington and Kief any day.

BC and ND only do well because of religious influence, which oddly is still an influence here. I don't think you'd find many non-GCL kids who have gone to either in the past 5-10 years.