(02-10-2014 12:30 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:28 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:17 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 10:54 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  That's silly...the military still runs just fine...I loved Jason Collins comment "I don't understand why everyone seems to worry about 'meat gazing' in the shower"

That might seem silly to you. Maybe not so much for others though.

Just like they separate men/women showers for good reasons....I can see this being an issue that will need to be addressed as well.

Then don't join the NFL...as I said, plenty of gay folks in the military...they all shower together on a daily basis.

If it's good enough for the military...it's good enough for the NFL

you've used the military as an example twice now. the military "accepts" it because they were ordered to accept it by the commander in chief. there wasnt a lot of choice in the matter. thats where a lot of people's argument starts. just because the armed forces haven't fallen apart in the last couple of years isnt dispositive.

whether it will ultimately effect readiness, recruiting, or retention is not known.

And NFL players are employees of their franchise...they have been ordered by the nfl to be inclusive so they don't have a choice in the matter...they can always quit if they prefer.

nfl <> the military. that's just bonkers. there is absolutely no comparing tese things. none. zero. an nfl coach cannot order you to charge a machine gun nest, and throw you in jail if you refuse. I don't think you have to think any further than that

(02-10-2014 12:29 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:27 AM)RaiderATO Wrote:  

That was fast.

the coalition of phat baby....

(02-10-2014 12:34 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:07 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  Riddle me this.....

Why does the gay man HAVE to come out and tell the world that he's gay? What does that possibly have to do with football?

Would it be right for me to just go to work or class one day and scream out "Hey look at me! I'm straight and proud! I like ******!" Makes no sense, doesn't it?

Or should a black person just yell out at the office "Hey I'm Black!" Or and Asian person, "Hey I'm Asian and proud!, Look at me!!!!".

I just wonder why this whole sexual orientation crap is seeming to be getting shoved down the throats of this country whether we agree with it or not. I say for gay people, LIVE YOUR FREAKING SEX LIVES and LEAVE US OUT OF IT. We don't care!!!

Why do teams ask players if they have girlfriends at the combine? What does that have to do with sports?

But yet they do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26...0102.html?

21st century recruiting adaptation, maybe????

(02-10-2014 12:35 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:30 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:28 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:17 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  That might seem silly to you. Maybe not so much for others though.

Just like they separate men/women showers for good reasons....I can see this being an issue that will need to be addressed as well.

Then don't join the NFL...as I said, plenty of gay folks in the military...they all shower together on a daily basis.

If it's good enough for the military...it's good enough for the NFL

you've used the military as an example twice now. the military "accepts" it because they were ordered to accept it by the commander in chief. there wasnt a lot of choice in the matter. thats where a lot of people's argument starts. just because the armed forces haven't fallen apart in the last couple of years isnt dispositive.

whether it will ultimately effect readiness, recruiting, or retention is not known.

And NFL players are employees of their franchise...they have been ordered by the nfl to be inclusive so they don't have a choice in the matter...they can always quit if they prefer.

nfl <> the military. that's just bonkers. there is absolutely no comparing tese things. none. zero. an nfl coach cannot order you to charge a machine gun nest, and throw you in jail if you dont. I don't think you have to think any further than that

Why?

Both very macho environments...

Both violent cultures...

Both considered a "band of brothers"

Both involve taking guys from all over, from different backgrounds and forcing them together as a group.

you get screamed at by a coach...you get screamed at by drill sergeant

One has lockers...one has bunks...

if it's good enough for the military...it's good enough for the NFL

(02-10-2014 12:34 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:07 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  Riddle me this.....

Why does the gay man HAVE to come out and tell the world that he's gay? What does that possibly have to do with football?

Would it be right for me to just go to work or class one day and scream out "Hey look at me! I'm straight and proud! I like ******!" Makes no sense, doesn't it?

Or should a black person just yell out at the office "Hey I'm Black!" Or and Asian person, "Hey I'm Asian and proud!, Look at me!!!!".

I just wonder why this whole sexual orientation crap is seeming to be getting shoved down the throats of this country whether we agree with it or not. I say for gay people, LIVE YOUR FREAKING SEX LIVES and LEAVE US OUT OF IT. We don't care!!!

Why do teams ask players if they have girlfriends at the combine? What does that have to do with sports?

But yet they do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26...0102.html?

then it would suddenly seem that the big televised coming out was totally unnecessary. Looks like it was going to get handled one way or another.

(02-10-2014 12:44 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:34 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:07 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  Riddle me this.....

Why does the gay man HAVE to come out and tell the world that he's gay? What does that possibly have to do with football?

Would it be right for me to just go to work or class one day and scream out "Hey look at me! I'm straight and proud! I like ******!" Makes no sense, doesn't it?

Or should a black person just yell out at the office "Hey I'm Black!" Or and Asian person, "Hey I'm Asian and proud!, Look at me!!!!".

I just wonder why this whole sexual orientation crap is seeming to be getting shoved down the throats of this country whether we agree with it or not. I say for gay people, LIVE YOUR FREAKING SEX LIVES and LEAVE US OUT OF IT. We don't care!!!

Why do teams ask players if they have girlfriends at the combine? What does that have to do with sports?

But yet they do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26...0102.html?

then it would suddenly seem that the big televised coming out was totally unnecessary. Looks like it was going to get handled one way or another.

If he's going to be asked about it at the combine...why not simply be honest, like he's doing?

If I were him I would prefer to "control the message" instead of it becoming some big headline later.

(02-10-2014 12:48 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:44 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:34 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:07 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  Riddle me this.....

Why does the gay man HAVE to come out and tell the world that he's gay? What does that possibly have to do with football?

Would it be right for me to just go to work or class one day and scream out "Hey look at me! I'm straight and proud! I like ******!" Makes no sense, doesn't it?

Or should a black person just yell out at the office "Hey I'm Black!" Or and Asian person, "Hey I'm Asian and proud!, Look at me!!!!".

I just wonder why this whole sexual orientation crap is seeming to be getting shoved down the throats of this country whether we agree with it or not. I say for gay people, LIVE YOUR FREAKING SEX LIVES and LEAVE US OUT OF IT. We don't care!!!

Why do teams ask players if they have girlfriends at the combine? What does that have to do with sports?

But yet they do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26...0102.html?

then it would suddenly seem that the big televised coming out was totally unnecessary. Looks like it was going to get handled one way or another.

If he's going to be asked about it at the combine...why not simply be honest, like he's doing?

If I were him I would prefer to "control the message" instead of it becoming some big headline later.

That wasn't a serious comment. I should have put a smiley on it.

(02-10-2014 12:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:48 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:44 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:34 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:07 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  Riddle me this.....

Why does the gay man HAVE to come out and tell the world that he's gay? What does that possibly have to do with football?

Would it be right for me to just go to work or class one day and scream out "Hey look at me! I'm straight and proud! I like ******!" Makes no sense, doesn't it?

Or should a black person just yell out at the office "Hey I'm Black!" Or and Asian person, "Hey I'm Asian and proud!, Look at me!!!!".

I just wonder why this whole sexual orientation crap is seeming to be getting shoved down the throats of this country whether we agree with it or not. I say for gay people, LIVE YOUR FREAKING SEX LIVES and LEAVE US OUT OF IT. We don't care!!!

Why do teams ask players if they have girlfriends at the combine? What does that have to do with sports?

But yet they do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26...0102.html?

then it would suddenly seem that the big televised coming out was totally unnecessary. Looks like it was going to get handled one way or another.

If he's going to be asked about it at the combine...why not simply be honest, like he's doing?

If I were him I would prefer to "control the message" instead of it becoming some big headline later.

That wasn't a serious comment. I should have put a smiley on it.

I've had to learn the hard way too.... is my sarc emitcon due to responses received....they fly over the head....is why Dennis Miller is where???

(02-10-2014 12:15 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  It's been estimated that 3.8% of Americans identify as gay and the real number is probably higher since a lot of the lgbt community don't identify themselves. It's a long been accepted that the number is closer to 10%.

There has been some truly massive research (many hundreds of thousands of people giving anonymous responses) on this question in Britain and Europe over the past decade. The % of people claiming or admitting to same-sex attraction has never been found to be greater than 5 or 6%, and typically much less than that -- between 1% and 2% is common. Which is notable since the social stigma against same-sex attraction in Europe is roughly the same as in Fire Island NY or San Francisco. The "10%" claim is, putting it plainly, horsesh!t and was basically invented by one highly dishonest/corrupt researcher (Kinsey) in the 1940s. His "findings" were accepted mainly because so few people were doing research on the subject, so there was a scarcity of data. The source-material for all this is very easy to find so I won't bother with links.

I have no idea how common homosexuality is in the NFL, and I suspect no one else who posts on this website does, either. My honest guess is no more than 1 per every 200 players, but whatever. There is no practical way to answer that question definitively.

I wish good things in life for Michael Sam. I don't know what challenges his announcement will pose in terms of his family/personal life. From that standpoint, this declaration may have required an enormous amount of courage and pain. I hope that is not the case; it might be. But in terms of his career as a pro-football player, this involves no bravery at all. The league office will be hovering directly overhead of whatever franchise he signs with, scrutinizing every clubhouse whisper for the slightest hint of "homophobia". The media will eagerly join in that process and be ready to hand out gold-stars to players who express Approved Opinions (and to give the evil eye to those who express Not-Approved Opinions). Michael Sam has now ensured himself glowing/adulatory coverage in the media for the rest of his career, and probably for the rest of his life.

One thing to watch for: someone in the NFL-world (probably a player, possibly a coach) will express a verboten comment, and there will be a wave of bullsh*t from the New York Times and the "Today" show and other like-minded organizations. Then Michael Sam will tell people to back off and give the Bad Guy another chance. Then there will be another media-wave praising Sam for being so incredibly noble and strong and wise. You can make book on that ritual taking place at some point in time.

Only frustrating thing about it is that I have to listen to ESPN go on non stop about it for the next week.

(02-09-2014 11:53 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:30 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:17 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 10:54 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  That's silly...the military still runs just fine...I loved Jason Collins comment "I don't understand why everyone seems to worry about 'meat gazing' in the shower"

That might seem silly to you. Maybe not so much for others though.

Just like they separate men/women showers for good reasons....I can see this being an issue that will need to be addressed as well.

Then don't join the NFL...as I said, plenty of gay folks in the military...they all shower together on a daily basis.

If it's good enough for the military...it's good enough for the NFL

Hear ye, hear ye..

If you've ever played on a football team, you've shared a locker room with a gay man. The only difference is now some will know it.

Oh yeah? How do you know that every football team in America (college or pro) has had somebody gay on the team? That is pure assumption. No fact.

There are probably some teams that haven't. But with anywhere from 5 to 10% of the population being homosexual, the odds are slim that a team with 53 or more players doesn't have at least one.

(02-10-2014 02:19 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Only frustrating thing about it is that I have to listen to ESPN go on non stop about it for the next week.

If you think this will blow over by next week…

But on the other hand, if you needed (another) reason to turn off ESPN, well here ya go.

5-10% of the population homosexual? I'm sorry but that hilariously wrong. Last survey I saw it was hovering between 1-2%.

(02-10-2014 12:28 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:15 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:53 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:30 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  Then don't join the NFL...as I said, plenty of gay folks in the military...they all shower together on a daily basis.

If it's good enough for the military...it's good enough for the NFL

Hear ye, hear ye..

If you've ever played on a football team, you've shared a locker room with a gay man. The only difference is now some will know it.

Oh yeah? How do you know that every football team in America (college or pro) has had somebody gay on the team? That is pure assumption. No fact.

It might not be a fact but it's likely. It's been estimated that 3.8% of Americans identify as gay and the real number is probably higher since a lot of the lgbt community don't identify themselves. It's a long held belief that the number is closer to 10%. So if you use the 10% figure, on a team of 50+ men, the probability of at least one being gay is fairly high.

3.8% is way high. The CDC put it at 2.8 a few years ago, and that seemed high. The 10% number is just pure crap, and has been known to be crap for decades.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters, but it blows a big hole in your probability based "a gay guy has seen you naked!" argument, which I think is pretty pointless to begin with.

3.8% is way low as many don't identify themselves as homosexual because there are too many people like you who think less of them simply because of their sexual orientation. For the vast majority, it is not a choice.

(02-10-2014 02:31 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  5-10% of the population homosexual? I'm sorry but that hilariously wrong. Last survey I saw it was hovering between 1-2%.

Of people who actually admit it. What about the ones who don't? You can probably safely assume that there are at least 3 who don't admit it for every one who does. So it's probably more likely 4-8%.

One day, hopefully before I die, the world as a whole won't condemn those whose sexual orientation is different than theirs. When that time comes, we'll know just how many there are. Many of you are going to be horrified to learn the truth.

(02-10-2014 02:41 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  Many of you are going to be horrified to learn the truth.

Just 12 words, but enough irony to last forever.

(02-10-2014 02:26 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:19 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Only frustrating thing about it is that I have to listen to ESPN go on non stop about it for the next week.

If you think this will blow over by next week…

But on the other hand, if you needed (another) reason to turn off ESPN, well here ya go.

^^^^^^ and somebody else caught "that".....

(02-10-2014 02:35 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:28 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 12:15 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:53 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:30 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Hear ye, hear ye..

If you've ever played on a football team, you've shared a locker room with a gay man. The only difference is now some will know it.

Oh yeah? How do you know that every football team in America (college or pro) has had somebody gay on the team? That is pure assumption. No fact.

It might not be a fact but it's likely. It's been estimated that 3.8% of Americans identify as gay and the real number is probably higher since a lot of the lgbt community don't identify themselves. It's a long held belief that the number is closer to 10%. So if you use the 10% figure, on a team of 50+ men, the probability of at least one being gay is fairly high.

3.8% is way high. The CDC put it at 2.8 a few years ago, and that seemed high. The 10% number is just pure crap, and has been known to be crap for decades.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters, but it blows a big hole in your probability based "a gay guy has seen you naked!" argument, which I think is pretty pointless to begin with.

3.8% is way low as many don't identify themselves as homosexual because there are too many people like you who think less of them simply because of their sexual orientation. For the vast majority, it is not a choice.

first off all, you have no clue what I think on the subject. I simply haven't commented on the central issue. what I have criticized is the circus maximus atmosphere that always surrounds this sort of "revelation".

3.8% is what the CDC says, dude. if you've got a problem with that, you just have a problem with observable reality. the rest of your post is a political rant based on a persecution theory that hasn't reflected reality in 20 years.

(02-09-2014 11:22 PM)techdawg88 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)TTT Wrote:  Do you think he'll fall in the draft as a result and lose money. I do, and I think that's sad.

depends on the city. IMO, he should kept his mouth shut until after getting drafted

I guess there isn't a "good" time to come out in this regard, but yeah, I would have got my money first. No way of knowing if his draft stock will be impacted. Hope not, but one never knows.

(02-10-2014 12:07 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  Riddle me this.....

Why does the gay man HAVE to come out and tell the world that he's gay? What does that possibly have to do with football?

Would it be right for me to just go to work or class one day and scream out "Hey look at me! I'm straight and proud! I like ******!" Makes no sense, doesn't it?

Or should a black person just yell out at the office "Hey I'm Black!" Or and Asian person, "Hey I'm Asian and proud!, Look at me!!!!".

I just wonder why this whole sexual orientation crap is seeming to be getting shoved down the throats of this country whether we agree with it or not. I say for gay people, LIVE YOUR FREAKING SEX LIVES and LEAVE US OUT OF IT. We don't care!!!

did you really just say that?