OK guys I am very suspect of this class. How is it possible that so many highly rated kids that are three stars did not get offers from Michigan, Michigan State, etc? How did they not have any defections? The majority of these kids are from Michigan. If PJ was such a great recruiter he would have also got more high level kids from other states like Florida, but he didnt. Can we find out if the same rating service or person at that rating service ended up evaluating these kids? Was Allen at Scout the main rater? Does he tend to rate higher then other raters? The Rivals guys might now who does the rating but I see a trend that no other MAC school accomplished let alone other auto qualifiers. I am very suspect about this?

Yup, they had such few offers. Kids who signed with WMU had offers from (or had signed with previously) schools including Florida State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Virgina, Indiana, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Minnesota, Pitt, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Southern Miss, West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Wake Forest, Miami (FL), and Syracuse among others.


Totally over ranked recruits, right? Get real... PJ is just good at selling this program.

Just a couple recruits and their other offers:

Lonnie Johnson (3 star): Akron, Bowling Green, Toledo Cincinnati, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio State, Purdue, South Florida

Chance Stewart (3 star): Toledo, Illinois, Wisconsin

Chukwuma Okorafor (3 star): Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Tulane, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State, Oklahoma, San Diego St, Virginia)

Javonte Seabury (3 star): Florida Intl., Kent State, Samford, Florida State, Miami (FL)

Lucas Bezerra (3 star): Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Indiana, South Florida

Jamauri Bogan (3 star): Umass, Toledo, Georgia Tech, Old Dominion, Temple

Robert Spillane (3 star): Northern Illinois, Toledo, Cincinnati, Purdue, Syracuse


I could continue, but I think you get the point. These kids aren't overrated. They hold more BCS offers than any MAC school has ever come close to seeing. I don't know what PJ told these kids to get them here, but whatever it is it's working.

Also, out of the 27 recruits only 12 come from Michigan. Here's the breakdown of the states:

Michigan 12
Illinois: 4
Florida: 2
Ohio: 2
Indiana: 2
New Jersey: 1
Maryland: 1
Pennsylvania: 1
Georgia: 1
Massachusetts: 1

Don't think too much into ratings and stars. Look at what happened to Toledo's top rated recruiting class these past few years :bang head:

And then there's the 2013 Jim Thorpe Award winner, Darqueze Dennard from Michigan State, he was rated a 2 star.

(02-07-2014 10:35 AM)WMU_Flyboy Wrote:  Yup, they had such few offers. Kids who signed with WMU had offers from (or had signed with previously) schools including Florida State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Virgina, Indiana, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Minnesota, Pitt, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Southern Miss, West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Wake Forest, Miami (FL), and Syracuse among others.


Totally over ranked recruits, right? Get real... PJ is just good at selling this program.

Just a couple recruits and their other offers:

Lonnie Johnson (3 star): Akron, Bowling Green, Toledo Cincinnati, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio State, Purdue, South Florida

Chance Stewart (3 star): Toledo, Illinois, Wisconsin

Chukwuma Okorafor (3 star): Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Tulane, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State, Oklahoma, San Diego St, Virginia)

Javonte Seabury (3 star): Florida Intl., Kent State, Samford, Florida State, Miami (FL)

Lucas Bezerra (3 star): Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Indiana, South Florida

Jamauri Bogan (3 star): Umass, Toledo, Georgia Tech, Old Dominion, Temple

Robert Spillane (3 star): Northern Illinois, Toledo, Cincinnati, Purdue, Syracuse


I could continue, but I think you get the point. These kids aren't overrated. They hold more BCS offers than any MAC school has ever come close to seeing. I don't know what PJ told these kids to get them here, but whatever it is it's working.

Also, out of the 27 recruits only 12 come from Michigan. Here's the breakdown of the states:

Michigan 12
Illinois: 4
Florida: 2
Ohio: 2
Indiana: 2
New Jersey: 1
Maryland: 1
Pennsylvania: 1
Georgia: 1
Massachusetts: 1

You have answered one of my questions right here. Michigan and Michigan State brought in plenty of three star athletes. How come none of these three star athletes have offers from those schools? If you want to drink the coolaide without disecting this a little bit that is fine.

(02-07-2014 10:35 AM)WMU_Flyboy Wrote:  They hold more BCS offers than any MAC school has ever come close to seeing.

Link? Or are you just throwing around baseless "facts"?

(02-07-2014 10:43 AM)tampabayrocketfan Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 10:35 AM)WMU_Flyboy Wrote:  Yup, they had such few offers. Kids who signed with WMU had offers from (or had signed with previously) schools including Florida State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Virgina, Indiana, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Minnesota, Pitt, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Southern Miss, West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Wake Forest, Miami (FL), and Syracuse among others.


Totally over ranked recruits, right? Get real... PJ is just good at selling this program.

Just a couple recruits and their other offers:

Lonnie Johnson (3 star): Akron, Bowling Green, Toledo Cincinnati, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio State, Purdue, South Florida

Chance Stewart (3 star): Toledo, Illinois, Wisconsin

Chukwuma Okorafor (3 star): Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Tulane, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State, Oklahoma, San Diego St, Virginia)

Javonte Seabury (3 star): Florida Intl., Kent State, Samford, Florida State, Miami (FL)

Lucas Bezerra (3 star): Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Indiana, South Florida

Jamauri Bogan (3 star): Umass, Toledo, Georgia Tech, Old Dominion, Temple

Robert Spillane (3 star): Northern Illinois, Toledo, Cincinnati, Purdue, Syracuse


I could continue, but I think you get the point. These kids aren't overrated. They hold more BCS offers than any MAC school has ever come close to seeing. I don't know what PJ told these kids to get them here, but whatever it is it's working.

Also, out of the 27 recruits only 12 come from Michigan. Here's the breakdown of the states:

Michigan 12
Illinois: 4
Florida: 2
Ohio: 2
Indiana: 2
New Jersey: 1
Maryland: 1
Pennsylvania: 1
Georgia: 1
Massachusetts: 1

You have answered one of my questions right here. Michigan and Michigan State brought in plenty of three star athletes. How come none of these three star athletes have offers from those schools? If you want to drink the coolaide without disecting this a little bit that is fine.

Western's class has been the talk of the MAC for months. The stars and the like seem as real as any anywhere else. Fleck did a remarkable job recruiting. that seems to be his strength.The problem is, as pointed out in an earlier post here, it all means absolutely nothing. Just something to keep the folks who don't follow hoops or track busy during the winter. We'll see how Fleck coaches them on the field and develops them off it.

Spin, spin but no one here would be complaining if our stars had lined up similarly. Star systems like any other are not expected to be perfect. Some will miss and some will hit but until I see Alabama going out of their way to recruit one-stars, I'll presume there's some intelligence behind the system.

That's a quality class. We'll still beat them but kudos to WMU where due.

(02-07-2014 10:35 AM)WMU_Flyboy Wrote:  I don't know what PJ told these kids to get them here, but whatever it is it's working.

Perhaps they were all promised Yachts...

(02-07-2014 10:54 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  Spin, spin but no one here would be complaining if our stars had lined up similarly. Star systems like any other are not expected to be perfect. Some will miss and some will hit but until I see Alabama going out of their way to recruit one-stars, I'll presume there's some intelligence behind the system.

That's a quality class. We'll still beat them but kudos to WMU where due.

I agree. Good for the Broncos. I think it elevates the league as a whole when quality players sign with any of the teams. Lets put our focus on beating them on the field.

They have a good base now, but when will Fleck quit rowing in his sleep, and wake up? The dude is full of antics. If you don't have the staff to teach players then it doesn't matter how talented the team is. I'm sure talent can win em a few games in the next few seasons, but it isn't everything. Toledo's past four recruiting classes are a perfect example.
This class we went for defense, and depth. Got a player who chose UT over Wisconsin, Oregon, FSU, and Miami. I'm impressed by the WMU class, but not enamored by it. Fleck has to prove he isn't a wack jab with a DJ and an ego first.... it's early in his tenure. We shall see.

(02-07-2014 11:03 AM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 10:35 AM)WMU_Flyboy Wrote:  I don't know what PJ told these kids to get them here, but whatever it is it's working.

Perhaps they were all promised Yachts...

I guess if you've never been to the ocean, then you wouldn't know the difference between a yacht and a rowboat.......

With as bad as WMU was, he could guarantee playing time right away!!!

(02-07-2014 09:45 AM)tampabayrocketfan Wrote:  OK guys I am very suspect of this class. How is it possible that so many highly rated kids that are three stars did not get offers from Michigan, Michigan State, etc? How did they not have any defections? The majority of these kids are from Michigan. If PJ was such a great recruiter he would have also got more high level kids from other states like Florida, but he didnt. Can we find out if the same rating service or person at that rating service ended up evaluating these kids? Was Allen at Scout the main rater? Does he tend to rate higher then other raters? The Rivals guys might now who does the rating but I see a trend that no other MAC school accomplished let alone other auto qualifiers. I am very suspect about this?

See how many of the top schools went after anybody from the State of Michigan after about the top 10-12 recruits. That's all you need to know. Btw, Allen didn't have a clue that Reineke was not in the Rockets signing class when he wrote his review of UT's commits.

(02-07-2014 05:30 PM)Rocket A Wrote:  With as bad as WMU was, he could guarantee playing time right away!!!

Very possibly. Well, not gonna pee in their Wheaties. After the hell their fans have been through they deserve something to give them a little optimism. Hasn't been that long ago we had some pathetic seasons and it still stings. That road trip to Ann Arbor in '08 took a little bit of the pain away, though.

Getting a bunch of highly rated recruits to commit is one thing. Getting them all in school--well, ya know that's another thing.

I think that most people realize that these star ratings of HS players are just estimates of their perceived potential and there is no ironclad guarantee that a player will ever achieve that potential or if the assumed potential as designed by the stars is even an accurate appraisal.

However, having said that, these ratings are the coin of the realm in evaluating recruiting classes on signing day. On that basis, WMU clearly has the top recruiting class in the MAC this year and are to be congratulated (sidebar: exactly what is it about young coaches being able to recruit?) I do recall a lot of pride in several of UT's previous recruiting classes based on the star rating system, so I think that it is disingenuous to question WMU on their class rating as determined by the very same criteria.

(02-07-2014 05:34 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 09:45 AM)tampabayrocketfan Wrote:  OK guys I am very suspect of this class. How is it possible that so many highly rated kids that are three stars did not get offers from Michigan, Michigan State, etc? How did they not have any defections? The majority of these kids are from Michigan. If PJ was such a great recruiter he would have also got more high level kids from other states like Florida, but he didnt. Can we find out if the same rating service or person at that rating service ended up evaluating these kids? Was Allen at Scout the main rater? Does he tend to rate higher then other raters? The Rivals guys might now who does the rating but I see a trend that no other MAC school accomplished let alone other auto qualifiers. I am very suspect about this?

See how many of the top schools went after anybody from the State of Michigan after about the top 10-12 recruits. That's all you need to know. Btw, Allen didn't have a clue that Reineke was not in the Rockets signing class when he wrote his review of UT's commits.

BOCA you are right. I am a numbers guy and love statistics and probability. I was dissecting some things for WMU, NIU and Toledo and here is what I found:

The rankings on Scout are subjective in nature. Western Michigan has a lot of three star recruits. However when you dissect things further the 12 kids they recruited and signed from Michigan had very little interest from AQ schools. In fact only two received offers from AQ schools. Drilling down further I found that WMU had seven total kids that received some AQ offers, Toledo six and NIU six. I have more faith that the college coaches know who is really better then a couple of analysts. In fact none of the WMU recruits from Michigan received any offers from Michigan State or Michigan. NIU and Toledo each have six kids from FL. WMU has two. It just leads me to believe that the quality of the Michigan kids overall wasn't there? If so, then how come they weren't heavily recruited. NIU signed one kid from Michigan and Toledo signed none. Are you telling me that WMU knows something we don't?

Looking at Flyboy's list four of the players had offers from Toledo they just chose WMU, so it wasn't just WMU.

If you want to know why scUM and MSU didn't offer those kids take a look at their recruits and those ratings as well as positions of need. Did they already have a better player committed? Or did they need another player at that position?

(02-07-2014 10:47 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 10:43 AM)tampabayrocketfan Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 10:35 AM)WMU_Flyboy Wrote:  Yup, they had such few offers. Kids who signed with WMU had offers from (or had signed with previously) schools including Florida State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Virgina, Indiana, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Minnesota, Pitt, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Southern Miss, West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Wake Forest, Miami (FL), and Syracuse among others.


Totally over ranked recruits, right? Get real... PJ is just good at selling this program.

Just a couple recruits and their other offers:

Lonnie Johnson (3 star): Akron, Bowling Green, Toledo Cincinnati, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio State, Purdue, South Florida

Chance Stewart (3 star): Toledo, Illinois, Wisconsin

Chukwuma Okorafor (3 star): Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Tulane, Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State, Oklahoma, San Diego St, Virginia)

Javonte Seabury (3 star): Florida Intl., Kent State, Samford, Florida State, Miami (FL)

Lucas Bezerra (3 star): Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Indiana, South Florida

Jamauri Bogan (3 star): Umass, Toledo, Georgia Tech, Old Dominion, Temple

Robert Spillane (3 star): Northern Illinois, Toledo, Cincinnati, Purdue, Syracuse


I could continue, but I think you get the point. These kids aren't overrated. They hold more BCS offers than any MAC school has ever come close to seeing. I don't know what PJ told these kids to get them here, but whatever it is it's working.

Also, out of the 27 recruits only 12 come from Michigan. Here's the breakdown of the states:

Michigan 12
Illinois: 4
Florida: 2
Ohio: 2
Indiana: 2
New Jersey: 1
Maryland: 1
Pennsylvania: 1
Georgia: 1
Massachusetts: 1

You have answered one of my questions right here. Michigan and Michigan State brought in plenty of three star athletes. How come none of these three star athletes have offers from those schools? If you want to drink the coolaide without disecting this a little bit that is fine.

Western's class has been the talk of the MAC for months. The stars and the like seem as real as any anywhere else. Fleck did a remarkable job recruiting. that seems to be his strength.The problem is, as pointed out in an earlier post here, it all means absolutely nothing. Just something to keep the folks who don't follow hoops or track busy during the winter. We'll see how Fleck coaches them on the field and develops them off it.

As far as I know WMU is located in the state of Michigan, focusing the base of your recruiting in your home state is proven to be a good recruiting strategy, as I understand it. I have been very disappointed in UT's recent efforts in Michigan.

WMU is on the right track for sure, give them credit. However, only hindsight will be 20/20. I'm sure the rating system has some merit, but only at the time prospecting is done. It is hard to tell what will happen to a body between the age of 17 and 21, especially after a year or two in a collegiate weight training program. It's like buying a used car...sometimes you have the gem you thought you had and other times not so much. IIRC, Eric Fisher was a two star recruit without much interest...and as we know, he became the #1 NFL draft pick. (note: I hope Spielman's genes are pure and we see something similar haha!).

And then there is recruiting the right pieces to fit your system and coaching them on and off the field. For example, BG winning the MAC last year (excuse me) with decent but not top ranked recruiting classes. Their recruiting had been defense heavy over the recent years and it paid off.

As for our recruiting, I am happy to see us concentrating on defense for this class. The offense should be in good shape for the time being and can wait another year. I know I am preaching to the choir, but if we want to win the MAC and get back to upsetting BCS foes on a regular basis, we HAVE to improve on the defensive side of the ball. Better coaching and recruiting on this side of the ball were both needed and both still seem to be headed in the right direction IMO.

WMU garnered a very good class basically because of their totally depleted depth chart and the chance for early PT. That's the bottom line. UT's class was as good or better than years past until the late loss of Jones, Smith and Beard.

UT's depth chart is loaded and we still were #2 by consensus in 2014 recruiting. That's a true testimony to the desirability of UT and UT football.

Go Rockets!