I appreciate Black Man's take. I also think some of those takes are right on. No sweet 16 this year, look out. No sweet 16 next year, it's over. And if you guys think his buyout wasn't approved by the the money guys who are actually gonna pay it, well, you're sadly mistaken.

Again, your opinion is appreciated Black Man. It's an emotionally charged time in Tiger fandom land.

(02-03-2014 01:58 PM)450bench Wrote:  I appreciate Black Man's take. I also think some of those takes are right on. No sweet 16 this year, look out. No sweet 16 next year, it's over. And if you guys think his buyout wasn't approved by the the money guys who are actually gonna pay it, well, you're sadly mistaken.

Again, your opinion is appreciated Black Man. It's an emotionally charged time in Tiger fandom land.

You're generally reasonable. However, there's a group on here who I GUARANTEE that if we get to the Sweet 16 and lose will call for Pastner's head for not making the elite eight.

WE ARE RANKED AND WINNING AND SOME ACT LIKE THIS SEASON HAS BEEN A FAILURE! We finished last season ranked! We've been ranked all season this season! My God, we're having a good season and all some do is ***** and want Pastner fired!

(02-03-2014 02:02 PM)transitt Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:58 PM)450bench Wrote:  I appreciate Black Man's take. I also think some of those takes are right on. No sweet 16 this year, look out. No sweet 16 next year, it's over. And if you guys think his buyout wasn't approved by the the money guys who are actually gonna pay it, well, you're sadly mistaken.

Again, your opinion is appreciated Black Man. It's an emotionally charged time in Tiger fandom land.

You're generally reasonable. However, there's a group on here who I GUARANTEE that if we get to the Sweet 16 and lose will call for Pastner's head for not making the elite eight.

WE ARE RANKED AND WINNING AND SOME ACT LIKE THIS SEASON HAS BEEN A FAILURE! We finished last season ranked! We've been ranked all season this season! My God, we're having a good season and all some do is ***** and want Pastner fired!

"Some" have "other" agenda's which have very little to do with the success of Memphis basketball.

I dont think anyone has mentioned this. Bruce Pearl? Just throwing it out there.

You won't get banned CBM. Nobody here gives a darn about you. Get over yourself.

Speaking of "bait."

SMU lost their previous game to South Florida, arguably the worst team in the league. But it looked Saturday like their fans recognized the progress trend their teams have made and instead of showing their panties they rallied the troops.

Yes- I will agree with any baiters who argue that if our team plays a bunch more really bad games that something needs to be done.

But 16-5- even with a loss after a 4 game win streak, and a 4 year upward trend and some wins over some of the best teams in the country- really should not result in the idea of throwing everything out.

(02-03-2014 01:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:25 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  I may get banned and definintely flamed for this, it ahs to be said. These players are young men who need to learn how to win at the highest level. A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors. Those traits are obviously something that the players feel comfortable displaying, for whatever reason. Pastner needs to figure out how to lead men, how to command their respect, and how to maintain discipline and intensity within and throughout the program. It seems that these super-talented players are playing at their own terms, not Pastner's. They take plays and even games off, just to suit their whims. This is Pastner's biggest challenge, and I have a my theories why he continues to struggle with these issues year after year, and it has much to do with how he recruits.

Apparently, Pastner promises too much to these 5-star recruits to get them to come to Memphis (playing time, freedom in/from the system, etc.). Pastner seems to be a firm believer that most of his job is recruiting, and that the talent alone will win the ball games. He may have a very high B-Ball IQ, but it matters very little if his players don't listen and take heed. When he promises high school players the world to come to Memphis, it becomes about the players, rather than the school and the team, which morphs over time into challenges with respect and his authority. It has nothing to do with entourages, "Memphis Players", or anything like that. These players just don't respect his coaching style or approach, and it shows. Now how he turns that around is to first define what he wants to do in building a program. What kind of Offense does he want to run, what kind of D? Then recruit players to fit his system, then get those players to understand that his system must be executed with intensity and perfection, and playing time will be based strictly on execution of the system in practice and in games. Don't promise any recruit playing time (which I think is why he keeps running the 4 guard line up at the expense of developing a solid bench, he promised Dixon the playing time).

All in all, I think we as fans need to temper our expectations of a Sweet 16 run out of this team. Pastner hasn't figured out how to coach these players (seems like a broken record as we've been saying the same thing for years). Perhaps an NIT run would get the administration to stop giving him raises, and hopefully Pastner will start fielding offers from other schools. Because he won't be a good coach for at least another 10 years, and we can't afford to wait on him. Time to cut bait.

I did the legwork for you and CUSA_NEWS.

Black coaches with votes in the current poll...

28 Shaka Smart - VCU
34 Johnny Jones - LSU
36 Cumonzo - UT

Cumonzo has beaten a LOT of ranked teams at UT. IF we could somehow manage to hire him our half court offense would be off the charts good. Even if we have to pay UT a $10 million buyout he would be well worth it.

My second choice would be Bruce Pearl. He isn't black, but he has a fake tan and when I see a fake tan, the first thing that I think of is quality.

priceless indeed

We should hire John Fox since he did a great job of motivating the Bronco's.

(02-03-2014 02:02 PM)transitt Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:58 PM)450bench Wrote:  I appreciate Black Man's take. I also think some of those takes are right on. No sweet 16 this year, look out. No sweet 16 next year, it's over. And if you guys think his buyout wasn't approved by the the money guys who are actually gonna pay it, well, you're sadly mistaken.

Again, your opinion is appreciated Black Man. It's an emotionally charged time in Tiger fandom land.

You're generally reasonable. However, there's a group on here who I GUARANTEE that if we get to the Sweet 16 and lose will call for Pastner's head for not making the elite eight.

WE ARE RANKED AND WINNING AND SOME ACT LIKE THIS SEASON HAS BEEN A FAILURE! We finished last season ranked! We've been ranked all season this season! My God, we're having a good season and all some do is ***** and want Pastner fired!

As with most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle of two extremes.

I don't want to "cut bait" and I'm sure a lot of tiger fans feel the same way but the way regressed defensively at SMU is disheartening.

Of particular concern is a point that CBM and others have brought up - that players don't respect pastner. I remember coverage of a specific practice a few years ago where the players were calling pastner "the corniest coach in America" to his face.

And when we read that the players were clowning around and joking after being spanked in Dallas, that shows an intensity and attitude problem.

I just hope the tigers from ok state round 2 show up in the matchups we have remaining in the regular season - we're in a spot now where we've put a lot of pressure on ourselves to win those games.

(02-03-2014 01:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  My second choice would be Bruce Pearl. He isn't black, but he has a fake tan and when I see a fake tan, the first thing that I think of is quality.

(02-03-2014 02:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  My second choice would be Bruce Pearl. He isn't black, but he has a fake tan and when I see a fake tan, the first thing that I think of is quality.

That is funny as hell!

Interesting that several responders are jumping straight to the race card when I never even mentioned an interest in a specific person as another coach. My observations are simply noting Pastner's weaknesses as a head coach, which, from other threads and posts over the years by a diversity of people, most agree with, regardless of their race. For those that are making this into a racial issue, shame on you. When real issues of racism rear their ugly heads, you either don't know or don't care enough about your fellow human beings to take a stand. And that is the last comment I will make about that issue.

As far as whether or not it is time to cut bait, I think a program the caliber of Memphis, with the level of investment being made, deserves a better progam manager and in game bench coach than Pastner. For whatever reason, his BB-IQ is negated because his players don't execute whatever plan he has in place. But, we must be honest and note that he has gone on record (after the 1st OkST game) noting that he runs no sets on Offense. That is why I noted that he seems to think that his main job is to recruit the best players and let their natural talent win games. His teams are undisciplined because there is no plan for them to follow. That is not an attitude problem with players, that is a systemic problem with the coaching. If you give young people no standard to live up to, they will not only perform below their ability, but they will not respect you in the process (hence the "corniest coach in america" quote from some of his players a while back).

While many of you harp on how much he has won and how we are ranked this year and such, if that is the goal for you, then Pastner is the man for the job. But, with top 5 recruiting classes the last couple of years, and another one on the way, I would think that he would need to do better than beating St. Mary's in the tourney and running through a semi-NAIA league like CUSA. To each their own, but I know and expect better than mediocrity, which is what we have seen so far from Pastner's teams relevant to their competition and level of investment.

(02-03-2014 02:40 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  Intersting that several responders are jumping straight to the race card when I never even mentioned an interest in a specific person as another coach. My observations are simply noting Pastner's weaknesses as a head coach, which, from other threads and posts over the years by a diversity of people, most agree with, regardless of their race. For those that are making this into a racial issue, shame on you. When real issues of racism rear their ugly heads, you either don't know or don't care enough about your fellow human beings to take a stand. And that is the last comment I will make about that issue.

As far as whether or not it is time to cut bait, I think a program the caliber of Memphis, with the level of investment being made, deserves a better progam manager and in game bench coach than Pastner. For whatever reason, his BB-IQ is negated because his players don't execute whatever plan he has in place. But, we must be honest and note that he has gone on record (after the 1st OkST game) noting that he runs no sets on Offense. That is why I noted that he seems to think that his main job is to recruit the best players and let their natural talent win games. His teams are undisciplined because there is no plan for them to follow. That is not an attitude problem with players, that is a systemic problem with the coaching. If you give young people no standard to live up to, they will not only perform below their ability, but they will not respect you in the process (hence the "corniest coach in america" quote from some of his players a while back).

While many of you harp on how much he has won and how we are ranked this year and such, if that is the goal for you, then Pastner is the man for the job. But, with top 5 recruiting classes the last couple of years, and another one on the way, I would think that he would need to do better than beating St. Mary's in the tourney and running through a semi-NAIA league like CUSA. To each their own, but I know and expect better than mediocrity, which is what we have seen so far from Pastner's teams relevant to their competition and level of investment.

Interesting. I'm no D1 basketball coach, but even I notice that they run offensive sets.

(02-03-2014 02:18 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 02:02 PM)transitt Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:58 PM)450bench Wrote:  I appreciate Black Man's take. I also think some of those takes are right on. No sweet 16 this year, look out. No sweet 16 next year, it's over. And if you guys think his buyout wasn't approved by the the money guys who are actually gonna pay it, well, you're sadly mistaken.

Again, your opinion is appreciated Black Man. It's an emotionally charged time in Tiger fandom land.

You're generally reasonable. However, there's a group on here who I GUARANTEE that if we get to the Sweet 16 and lose will call for Pastner's head for not making the elite eight.

WE ARE RANKED AND WINNING AND SOME ACT LIKE THIS SEASON HAS BEEN A FAILURE! We finished last season ranked! We've been ranked all season this season! My God, we're having a good season and all some do is ***** and want Pastner fired!

As with most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle of two extremes.

I don't want to "cut bait" and I'm sure a lot of tiger fans feel the same way but the way regressed defensively at SMU is disheartening.

Of particular concern is a point that CBM and others have brought up - that players don't respect pastner. I remember coverage of a specific practice a few years ago where the players were calling pastner "the corniest coach in America" to his face.

And when we read that the players were clowning around and joking after being spanked in Dallas, that shows an intensity and attitude problem.

I just hope the tigers from ok state round 2 show up in the matchups we have remaining in the regular season - we're in a spot now where we've put a lot of pressure on ourselves to win those games.

exactly. I go back to a game at Marshall where Joe's uncle came down on the floor behind the bench to take exception to the way Joe was being pulled out of the pile by Frank. The uncle grabbed and pointed at Frank. Joe shoved Frank. Then Pastner goes to pull Will Barton out of another fracas and Will yanked his arm away and told Pastner to keep his hands off of him. Pastner then takes an assistant off to the side and starts complaining to the assistant about how Will B. reacted. To me, this illustrated Pastner's leadership role with his team. Josh is one hell of a recruiter and does many things right, but he also seems bound by inexperience and a lack of on the court leadership. Not all salesmen as are great sales managers.

No one is content to simply be ranked but the program has moved forward and improved each season. Pastner is having a successful season and doing well in the AAC. If you don't see that you simply don't want to.

Firing Josh right now would be dumb beyond words. It would potentially damage the program in a big way!!!

glad we missed that ice storm.....would have been rough on top the weekly sh*t storm...

(02-03-2014 02:46 PM)transitt Wrote:  No one is content to simply be ranked but the program has moved forward and improved each season. Pastner is having a successful season and doing well in the AAC. If you don't see that you simply don't want to.

Firing Josh right now would be dumb beyond words. It would potentially damage the program in a big way!!!

Do you think the players respect josh? Are they executing his plan in games like SMU?

More bait.

Not really worthy.

The TELL is... "if you are happy with beating St. Mary's and wining a lot of meaningless games then I see why you like him..."

That is not even fresh bait anymore.

Yes- failure to mock and criticize and daring to recognize that this is likely the 5th year of getting better than the last one means completely satisfied with nothing more.

Yep chu chu chu.

(02-03-2014 02:15 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  We should hire John Fox since he did a great job of motivating the Bronco's.

If there is someone out there named John Foxxx and he is somehow related to Red Foxxx, and he can coach at all, we should hire him.

I agree with much of what CBM says. Although I have never been sold on Pastner, I don't think we should fire him in mid-season. I do think that another tourney flop this year should warrant a re-evaluation of his value here. I absolutely love Josh personally and hope my daughter marries someone just like him when she grows up. My concern for the program however is that this underachievement will eventually cause U of M to be labeled as the place where talent comes to die. With all this being said, Go Tigers Go! And Josh, PLEASE prove me wrong.