(01-30-2014 10:22 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  As simple as this.

Michigan State 19-2 with a 9 SOS. #4 in RPI.

Villanova is 18-2 with a 13 SOS. #3 in RPI.

According to your plug an play logic, MSU, with more wins and same losses, AND a higher SOS would have to have a higer RPI than Villanova.

They don't.

There is more to it that raw w/l and SOS.

There is, but the variance is so small, a place or two here or there. Like I said, maybe we would be in the low teens, maybe we would be in the high 20's.

No, that isn't a slight variance at all.

When the post was made, Memphis was in the low 30's in rpi. You then (I guess) cast a net that an extra home win in lieu of LO vs. a 150 rpi team would vault Memphis anywhere (I still guess you meant low teens-high 20's?) which would be anyhwere from 13-29.

I showed, absent SOS factors, the additional win (for win % purposes) of a home game would only bump Memphis 1-3 spots.

Today, I showed that, for SOS purposes, a win vs. a team at 150 would likely LOWER an rpi in the SOS category, which comprises 75% of the rpi.

I used specific numbers that show a real effect of a game, you attempted to plug and play a formula that (in the Villanova/MSU example) I proved does not have to follow.

It's really ok to acknowledge someone else has made a valid point even if it disproved a hypothesis of your own.

(01-30-2014 10:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:22 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  As simple as this.

Michigan State 19-2 with a 9 SOS. #4 in RPI.

Villanova is 18-2 with a 13 SOS. #3 in RPI.

According to your plug an play logic, MSU, with more wins and same losses, AND a higher SOS would have to have a higer RPI than Villanova.

They don't.

There is more to it that raw w/l and SOS.

There is, but the variance is so small, a place or two here or there. Like I said, maybe we would be in the low teens, maybe we would be in the high 20's.

No, that isn't a slight variance at all.

When the post was made, Memphis was in the low 30's in rpi. You then (I guess) cast a net that an extra home win in lieu of LO vs. a 150 rpi team would vault Memphis anywhere (I still guess you meant low teens-high 20's?) which would be anyhwere from 13-29.

I showed, absent SOS factors, the additional win (for win % purposes) of a home game would only bump Memphis 1-3 spots.

Today, I showed that, for SOS purposes, a win vs. a team at 150 would likely LOWER an rpi in the SOS category, which comprises 75% of the rpi.

I used specific numbers that show a real effect of a game, you attempted to plug and play a formula that (in the Villanova/MSU example) I proved does not have to follow.

It's really ok to acknowledge someone else has made a valid point even if it disproved a hypothesis of your own.

I responded to you correctly that the difference would be a place here or there. Your example showed a grand total of 1 spot difference. We would have been ranked anywhere from 18 - 23. UMass and Creighton are another example; the difference is 3 spots.

This isn't surprising. You were insisting in another thread that a player has the same mathematical odds of making an uncontested layup and a contested jump shot, and that if you flipped a coin twice, you had 50% odds of hitting heads 1 time.

Your mathematical gibberish is awesome; keep up the good work.

My math is spot on in this.

Instead of hollow attacks, please show how, in particular, one RPI 150 game at home would vault Memphis up the ladder using ACTUAL data.

Mine is out there.

If you don't want to supply your own data, then just critique my data suggestions in posts #80 and #90.

That simple. No need for attacks. It's just a discussion.

(01-30-2014 10:58 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  My math is spot on in this.

Instead of hollow attacks, please show how, in particular, one RPI 150 game at home would vault Memphis up the ladder using ACTUAL data.

Mine is out there.

If you don't want to supply your own data, then just critique my data suggestions in posts #80 and #90.

That simple. No need for attacks. It's just a discussion.

I haven't attacked you at all. I'm merely repeating stuff that you have posted. You also compared dumping charcoal and grease, driving a stake into, and spray painting a spot on Tiger Lane, with leaving a hotel room messy.

I supplied my data and backed it up with facts that you haven't done anything to refute. Your example helps to prove my point.

The strange thing is that Stammers argues against his initial point in this thread and doesn't realize it

This thread reminds me of the end of billy Madison.

(01-30-2014 12:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  The strange thing is that Stammers argues against his initial point in this thread and doesn't realize it

Stammers will never admit defeat, no matter how obvious it is that he was wrong. He's fouling down 10 with 20 seconds to go ...

(01-30-2014 12:25 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 12:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  The strange thing is that Stammers argues against his initial point in this thread and doesn't realize it

Stammers will never admit defeat, no matter how obvious it is that he was wrong. He's fouling down 10 with 20 seconds to go ...

Funny.

Per ESPN, our RPI is now 27. A win on the road at SMU will tend to improve the figure.

(01-30-2014 12:56 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Per ESPN, our RPI is now 27. A win on the road at SMU will tend to improve the figure.

Warren Nolan has us at 26. Either way, we should be able to move up 3-4 spots if we win Saturday.

(01-30-2014 10:27 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:22 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  As simple as this.

Michigan State 19-2 with a 9 SOS. #4 in RPI.

Villanova is 18-2 with a 13 SOS. #3 in RPI.

According to your plug an play logic, MSU, with more wins and same losses, AND a higher SOS would have to have a higer RPI than Villanova.

They don't.

There is more to it that raw w/l and SOS.

There is, but the variance is so small, a place or two here or there. Like I said, maybe we would be in the low teens, maybe we would be in the high 20's.

Flip those 2 home losses to road losses and that essentially means you have 1.6 less losses on your resume. That is the difference you are trying to make it too simple. SOS does not factor in where you play your adjusted winning % does.

That's all fine and dandy; but the difference regardless is minute. Show me an example where two top 50 teams have identical records, with the team with a lower SOS having a higher RPI by more than a few spots, and I will buy what you're selling. It just doesn't happen.

Live-RPI has the Tigers at 24 right now, and we didn't even play.

(01-31-2014 02:45 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  Live-RPI has the Tigers at 24 right now, and we didn't even play.

All four of our OOC opponents that played yesterday won. Let's hope the trend continues.

(01-31-2014 01:30 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:27 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:22 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  As simple as this.

Michigan State 19-2 with a 9 SOS. #4 in RPI.

Villanova is 18-2 with a 13 SOS. #3 in RPI.

According to your plug an play logic, MSU, with more wins and same losses, AND a higher SOS would have to have a higer RPI than Villanova.

They don't.

There is more to it that raw w/l and SOS.

There is, but the variance is so small, a place or two here or there. Like I said, maybe we would be in the low teens, maybe we would be in the high 20's.

Flip those 2 home losses to road losses and that essentially means you have 1.6 less losses on your resume. That is the difference you are trying to make it too simple. SOS does not factor in where you play your adjusted winning % does.

That's all fine and dandy; but the difference regardless is minute. Show me an example where two top 50 teams have identical records, with the team with a lower SOS having a higher RPI by more than a few spots, and I will buy what you're selling. It just doesn't happen.

VCU = 17-4, SOS 95, RPI Rank 33
Louisville = 17-4, SOS 72, RPI Rank 38

Well, that was a tap in putt.

<golfclap>

(01-31-2014 08:12 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:30 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:27 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:22 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:18 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  As simple as this.

Michigan State 19-2 with a 9 SOS. #4 in RPI.

Villanova is 18-2 with a 13 SOS. #3 in RPI.

According to your plug an play logic, MSU, with more wins and same losses, AND a higher SOS would have to have a higer RPI than Villanova.

They don't.

There is more to it that raw w/l and SOS.

There is, but the variance is so small, a place or two here or there. Like I said, maybe we would be in the low teens, maybe we would be in the high 20's.

Flip those 2 home losses to road losses and that essentially means you have 1.6 less losses on your resume. That is the difference you are trying to make it too simple. SOS does not factor in where you play your adjusted winning % does.

That's all fine and dandy; but the difference regardless is minute. Show me an example where two top 50 teams have identical records, with the team with a lower SOS having a higher RPI by more than a few spots, and I will buy what you're selling. It just doesn't happen.

VCU = 17-4, SOS 95, RPI Rank 33
Louisville = 17-4, SOS 72, RPI Rank 38

Not accurate. I don't know if you did it on purpose to mislead, but it is still a good example. Our difference was 14 spots; not 4 spots.

VCU
17-4
35 RPI
89 SOS

Louisville
17-4
39 RPI
78 SOS

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

(01-31-2014 08:24 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 08:12 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:30 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:27 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:22 AM)Stammers Wrote:  There is, but the variance is so small, a place or two here or there. Like I said, maybe we would be in the low teens, maybe we would be in the high 20's.

Flip those 2 home losses to road losses and that essentially means you have 1.6 less losses on your resume. That is the difference you are trying to make it too simple. SOS does not factor in where you play your adjusted winning % does.

That's all fine and dandy; but the difference regardless is minute. Show me an example where two top 50 teams have identical records, with the team with a lower SOS having a higher RPI by more than a few spots, and I will buy what you're selling. It just doesn't happen.

VCU = 17-4, SOS 95, RPI Rank 33
Louisville = 17-4, SOS 72, RPI Rank 38

Not accurate. I don't know if you did it on purpose to mislead, but it is still a good example. Our difference was 14 spots; not 4 spots.

VCU
17-4
35 RPI
89 SOS

Louisville
17-4
39 RPI
78 SOS

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

He's never been wrong ...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi

(01-31-2014 08:26 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 08:24 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 08:12 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:30 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 10:27 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Flip those 2 home losses to road losses and that essentially means you have 1.6 less losses on your resume. That is the difference you are trying to make it too simple. SOS does not factor in where you play your adjusted winning % does.

That's all fine and dandy; but the difference regardless is minute. Show me an example where two top 50 teams have identical records, with the team with a lower SOS having a higher RPI by more than a few spots, and I will buy what you're selling. It just doesn't happen.

VCU = 17-4, SOS 95, RPI Rank 33
Louisville = 17-4, SOS 72, RPI Rank 38

Not accurate. I don't know if you did it on purpose to mislead, but it is still a good example. Our difference was 14 spots; not 4 spots.

VCU
17-4
35 RPI
89 SOS

Louisville
17-4
39 RPI
78 SOS

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

He's never been wrong ...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi

Nigel...really?

Quote:Lunardi & Co. update it daily, and have included additional ratings, providing readers with original data for every Division I team, available only on ESPN.com.

Live RPI

Warren Nolan

(01-31-2014 08:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Well, that was a tap in putt.

<golfclap>

Rimming...rimming...rimming...

(01-31-2014 09:00 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 08:26 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 08:24 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 08:12 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:30 AM)Stammers Wrote:  That's all fine and dandy; but the difference regardless is minute. Show me an example where two top 50 teams have identical records, with the team with a lower SOS having a higher RPI by more than a few spots, and I will buy what you're selling. It just doesn't happen.

VCU = 17-4, SOS 95, RPI Rank 33
Louisville = 17-4, SOS 72, RPI Rank 38

Not accurate. I don't know if you did it on purpose to mislead, but it is still a good example. Our difference was 14 spots; not 4 spots.

VCU
17-4
35 RPI
89 SOS

Louisville
17-4
39 RPI
78 SOS

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

He's never been wrong ...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi

Nigel...really?

Quote:Lunardi & Co. update it daily, and have included additional ratings, providing readers with original data for every Division I team, available only on ESPN.com.

Live RPI

Warren Nolan

LOL ... You conveniently didn't quote the part that says ESPN replicates the RPI formula ... whatever. Regardless of what you believe, even nolan and live rpi prove the point. 11 spot SOS schedule difference and 4 spot ranking difference. You asked for an example, then said "it just doesn't happen" ... I then found an example in about 2 seconds.

It is okay to admit your wrong from time to time ...