(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

These are just excuses.

(01-20-2014 12:29 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  "Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. "

Gotcha, so your moral values come from the law. If it is legal, it's moral and vice versa. In other words, Government is your God. See, you are not atheist.

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Nope. But most of our laws are set into place because reason tells us they should be. See the natural connection there? My reason tells me murder, rape, and theft are wrong. Murderers, rapists, and felons are in prison.

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

So with that logic, nobody does anything they think is wrong since reasoning got them to the point of doing it. That's a pretty easy moral code to live by.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

(01-20-2014 12:33 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:30 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  in other words you have no response

In other words liberal arts major.

Yet another non-response

(01-20-2014 12:29 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  "Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. "

Gotcha, so your moral values come from the law. If it is legal, it's moral and vice versa. In other words, Government is your God. See, you are not atheist.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

To add to that, much of American Law is derived from English legal doctrines that came with English settlers, the same laws that have Judeo-Christian roots.

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

So with that logic, nobody does anything they think is wrong since reasoning got them to the point of doing it. That's a pretty easy moral code to live by.

It's called ethical relativism. We have the laws so the people in power's reason about what is moral is forced upon those who aren't in power. Hopefully the right people are in power. Starting to understand how this works now?

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:29 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  "Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. "

Gotcha, so your moral values come from the law. If it is legal, it's moral and vice versa. In other words, Government is your God. See, you are not atheist.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Nope. But most of our laws are set into place because reason tells us they should be. See the natural connection there? My reason tells me murder, rape, and theft are wrong. Murderers, rapists, and felons are in prison.

People reason themselves to different conclusions. Reason is not a moral philosophy. There has to be something that leads to your conclusion that A is better than B. There has to be an ultimate ideal.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:33 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:30 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  in other words you have no response

In other words liberal arts major.

Yet another non-response

You're looking for an explanation on the universe's origin? There is plenty of information on the modern scientific theories right at your finger tips.

(01-20-2014 12:38 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

So with that logic, nobody does anything they think is wrong since reasoning got them to the point of doing it. That's a pretty easy moral code to live by.

It's called ethical relativism. We have the laws so the people in power's reason about what is moral is forced upon those who aren't in power. Hopefully the right people are in power. Starting to understand how this works now?

You are sadly mistaken if you think laws only reflect those in power, or that morals are a way to control.

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

Personally, I'm not a fan of any system where people can be punished for thought-crime.

To your larger point, most species exhibit instinctive codes of behavior. Dogs know that stealing from each other is wrong and is discouraged within the pack. Humans also seem to know this instinctively, along with several other universal morals like not murdering each other. Violating these instinctive morals tends to break up the societies that we rely on for survival.

Now the debate is whether that instinctive code of behavior is the result of a higher being or some sort of evolutionary trait. We as humans benefit from it regardless of the source and I'm not sure that either side can ever prove their opinion on the matter.

(01-20-2014 12:38 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

So with that logic, nobody does anything they think is wrong since reasoning got them to the point of doing it. That's a pretty easy moral code to live by.

It's called ethical relativism. We have the laws so the people in power's reason about what is moral is forced upon those who aren't in power. Hopefully the right people are in power. Starting to understand how this works now?

You have done nothing but attack people of faith and their religion here with snarky, hateful posts and a general A-hole, arrogant tone.

Spare me if I don't buy into your personal "moral code".

I've seen enough of it on display in this thread.

(01-20-2014 12:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:29 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  "Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. "

Gotcha, so your moral values come from the law. If it is legal, it's moral and vice versa. In other words, Government is your God. See, you are not atheist.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Nope. But most of our laws are set into place because reason tells us they should be. See the natural connection there? My reason tells me murder, rape, and theft are wrong. Murderers, rapists, and felons are in prison.

People reason themselves to different conclusions. Reason is not a moral philosophy. There has to be something that leads to your conclusion that A is better than B. There has to be an ultimate ideal.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

There are numerous ethical theories from different philosophers. Utilitarianism and deontology for example. The root of all of them is reason.

(01-20-2014 12:40 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:33 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:30 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  in other words you have no response

In other words liberal arts major.

Yet another non-response

You're looking for an explanation on the universe's origin? There is plenty of information on the modern scientific theories right at your finger tips.

You are gretting yourself so worked up you are lost in your own argument.

I never asked you to explain anything. I just made a statement that clearly got under your skin.

(01-20-2014 12:38 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

So with that logic, nobody does anything they think is wrong since reasoning got them to the point of doing it. That's a pretty easy moral code to live by.

It's called ethical relativism. We have the laws so the people in power's reason about what is moral is forced upon those who aren't in power. Hopefully the right people are in power. Starting to understand how this works now?

You obviously don't.

Our cultural and legal understandings of concepts of murder, rape, theft, and any malum in se transgression, is shaped by our religious history and the influences religion have had on that cognitive and legal map.

It's just that simple. You're using the tools that were created over the last X thousand years in a given process and then claiming they are simple constructs, that's an opinion that demonstrates a gross ignorance of the evolution of our legal concepts, legal concepts in general, and Western Civilization.

You know just enough to be dangerous. Somebody who thinks of it as you do is essentially in the very early stages of interacting with these concepts. Put simply, you don't know what you don't know because you don't know.

Have a great day.

(01-20-2014 12:40 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You are sadly mistaken if you think laws only reflect those in power, or that morals are a way to control.

The common man doesn't do much policy making. Laws are clearly a way to control. Laws stem from the powers that be deem to be moral.

(01-20-2014 12:45 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:40 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You are sadly mistaken if you think laws only reflect those in power, or that morals are a way to control.

The common man doesn't do much policy making. Laws are clearly a way to control. Laws stem from the powers that be deem to be moral.

False. Man created the civilized society.

You would not be able to survive in a lawless society.

(01-20-2014 12:45 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:38 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:32 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

So with that logic, nobody does anything they think is wrong since reasoning got them to the point of doing it. That's a pretty easy moral code to live by.

It's called ethical relativism. We have the laws so the people in power's reason about what is moral is forced upon those who aren't in power. Hopefully the right people are in power. Starting to understand how this works now?

You obviously don't.

Our cultural and legal understandings of concepts of murder, rape, theft, and any malum in se transgression, is shaped by our religious history and the influences religion have had on that cognitive and legal map.

It's just that simple. You're using the tools that were created over the last X thousand years in a given process and then claiming they are simple constructs, that's an opinion that demonstrates a gross ignorance of the evolution of our legal concepts, legal concepts in general, and Western Civilization.

You know just enough to be dangerous. Somebody who thinks of it as you do is essentially in the very early stages of interacting with these concepts. Put simply, you don't know what you don't know because you don't know.

Have a great day.

excellent post

(01-20-2014 12:45 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:40 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You are sadly mistaken if you think laws only reflect those in power, or that morals are a way to control.

The common man doesn't do much policy making. Laws are clearly a way to control. Laws stem from the powers that be deem to be moral.

You won't find that in any mainstream school of jurisprudence, not one.

(01-20-2014 12:45 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  You are gretting yourself so worked up you are lost in your own argument.

I never asked you to explain anything. I just made a statement that got under your skin.

You quoted FOUR of my posts before I responded to you for the first time. Within those four posts you called me ignorant and a fool. Yet I'm the one who got under your skin? I think you were very interested in a conversation with me. :)

(01-20-2014 12:48 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:45 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:40 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You are sadly mistaken if you think laws only reflect those in power, or that morals are a way to control.

The common man doesn't do much policy making. Laws are clearly a way to control. Laws stem from the powers that be deem to be moral.

You won't find that in any mainstream school of jurisprudence, not one.

Three sentences there. You're referring to the second?