(01-17-2014 07:51 PM)Cougar King Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 07:28 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CK we'll be neighbors, sounds awesome.

To be truly honest, it is a possibility. However, Aresco did go on record during the previous meeting with the P5 and said that all AAC members have the means to pay stipends in order to play at the highest level. Hell, the lowest AAC budget would be the highest Sun Belt and CUSA budget and a Top 4 budget in the MWC.

Local sports radio asked our AD about this as well and he also said that we will play at the highest level and have the means to do so.

So did the Sun Belt and every other G5 conference. We all voted for it.

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:13 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Let's be real, we're already in a second tier division. The only thing it lacks is an official title. I think the problem is a bit larger than a simple lack of exposure. How many people care about watching Bowling Green or Miami (OH) outside of Ohio? The divide has a lot to do with demand.

A lot of them don't care about it now because its rarely on tv and if it is shuffled off to Thursday night with no promotion. Every commercial in that broadcast will be about one of the majors.

If you can get some promotion and get those games on tv then you can begin to build a bigger audience than you have now. Not the audience they have...but a more profitable audience than you have now.

And what is the choice here? Fight...get relegated....or die. I'll take fight even if it is a losing proposition. Better to force them to shoot you in the head than you vote to do it yourself.

I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Blasphemy!

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Maybe for you. You can drop down if you like right now.

We spent a lot of money constructing stadium seats to meet the requirements. We lost home games to schedule at neutral sites to meet requirements. We followed every transition requirement. After all that time and money suddenly....psych...arbitrary moving target...get back down.

No thanks. I'd prefer that any school in that situation take their chances in court.

(01-17-2014 08:34 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Maybe for you. You can drop down if you like right now.

We spent a lot of money constructing stadium seats to meet the requirements. We lost home games to schedule at neutral sites to meet requirements. We followed every transition requirement. After all that time and money suddenly....psych...arbitrary moving target...get back down.

No thanks. I'd prefer that any school in that situation take their chances in court.

There is no way ASU would voluntarily relegate ourselves back to 2nd class. We've been there...done that, and vowed to never do it again.

My guess is that you'll find a large majority of G5 schools will say the same thing.

(01-17-2014 08:34 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Maybe for you. You can drop down if you like right now.

We spent a lot of money constructing stadium seats to meet the requirements. We lost home games to schedule at neutral sites to meet requirements. We followed every transition requirement. After all that time and money suddenly....psych...arbitrary moving target...get back down.

No thanks. I'd prefer that any school in that situation take their chances in court.

I hope the whole mess does eventually go to court. I'm not an attorney (fortunately), but it sure seems there are anti-trust issues here.....rolled into that mix is the issue of public funding via taxes etc. The whole thing just reeks to high heaven to me.

(01-17-2014 08:39 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  There is no way ASU would voluntarily relegate ourselves back to 2nd class. We've been there...done that, and vowed to never do it again.

My guess is that you'll find a large majority of G5 schools will say the same thing.

Let's get all those emails, meeting notes, on expansion, realignment, tv deals, and testimony under oath from Presidents, AD's, Network execs, and Commissioners. Let a judge decide if there was any collusion to set arbitrary limits to expel some NCAA members from the upper tier they had spent money and time to get into following all the rules...or if it was all innocent efforts to set rules to help those poor student-athletes.

I doubt anybody really wants even the threat of any of that.

It is remarkably funny that America is founded as a Democracy, and people are scared to death of Socialism, yet American Sports run on a Socialist principle, where the Elite are pretty much pre selected and share the wealth only with each other.

Many European Countries have government systems that are very close to socialism, but there sports run on a democratic system where access to the Elite is available to all who can play their way into it.

(01-17-2014 08:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It is remarkably funny that America is founded as a Democracy, and people are scared to death of Socialism, yet American Sports run on a Socialist principle, where the Elite are pretty much pre selected and share the wealth only with each other.

Many European Countries have government systems that are very close to socialism, but there sports run on a democratic system where access to the Elite is available to all who can play their way into it.

Here, here, set up the NCAA into a system of tiers featuring promotion and relegation based on performance on the field.

(01-17-2014 08:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It is remarkably funny that America is founded as a Democracy, and people are scared to death of Socialism, yet American Sports run on a Socialist principle, where the Elite are pretty much pre selected and share the wealth only with each other.

Many European Countries have government systems that are very close to socialism, but there sports run on a democratic system where access to the Elite is available to all who can play their way into it.

Representative republic, not a democracy.

(01-17-2014 08:15 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:08 PM)Cougar King Wrote:  I just realized I forgot about the MAC, but of course the lowest AAC budget would also be the highest MAC budget.

Anyway, I see your point but if an arbitrary budget (for argument's sake, let's say 30 million) the NCAA and the P5 could say that they aren't excluding anybody and if said school meets the 30 million mark, they are able to be included.

They could also compare it to the 15,000 minimum attendance required to be an FBS member. Nobody has tried to challenge that in court.

No guarantee you win in court...ever. But you might. And if you do the damages are immense.

If you set the limit at $30,000,000 then what if East Texas Valley Christian College gets a giant donation and demands entry? Do you drop East Texas Valley Christian College into the SEC, Big 12, ACC, Big 10, or Pac 12? Hmmm. If its not arbitrary you'll have to let them in won't you?

A whole big can of worms gets opened up if you try to shove schools down.

You just have to let them into the division--not any given conference. So they can come in as an independent. Of course, if there are more than 6-8 independents, its a viable existence. If there are more than 8, you just create a new conference.

(01-17-2014 08:52 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It is remarkably funny that America is founded as a Democracy, and people are scared to death of Socialism, yet American Sports run on a Socialist principle, where the Elite are pretty much pre selected and share the wealth only with each other.

Many European Countries have government systems that are very close to socialism, but there sports run on a democratic system where access to the Elite is available to all who can play their way into it.

Here, here, set up the NCAA into a system of tiers featuring promotion and relegation based on performance on the field.

This is a far better way to do it. I'm tired of people pretending that all FBS schools are the same. A lot people has a false sense of pride as a G5 school.

(01-17-2014 08:39 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:34 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Maybe for you. You can drop down if you like right now.

We spent a lot of money constructing stadium seats to meet the requirements. We lost home games to schedule at neutral sites to meet requirements. We followed every transition requirement. After all that time and money suddenly....psych...arbitrary moving target...get back down.

No thanks. I'd prefer that any school in that situation take their chances in court.

There is no way ASU would voluntarily relegate ourselves back to 2nd class. We've been there...done that, and vowed to never do it again.

My guess is that you'll find a large majority of G5 schools will say the same thing.

But you're already a second class school. How many G5 schools have a campus, facilities, and endowment to rival P5 schools?

(01-17-2014 08:52 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It is remarkably funny that America is founded as a Democracy, and people are scared to death of Socialism, yet American Sports run on a Socialist principle, where the Elite are pretty much pre selected and share the wealth only with each other.

Many European Countries have government systems that are very close to socialism, but there sports run on a democratic system where access to the Elite is available to all who can play their way into it.

Here, here, set up the NCAA into a system of tiers featuring promotion and relegation based on performance on the field.

If we end up getting shoved down...that is one out-of-the-box option for us all. I bet it would be popular.

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:13 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Let's be real, we're already in a second tier division. The only thing it lacks is an official title. I think the problem is a bit larger than a simple lack of exposure. How many people care about watching Bowling Green or Miami (OH) outside of Ohio? The divide has a lot to do with demand.

A lot of them don't care about it now because its rarely on tv and if it is shuffled off to Thursday night with no promotion. Every commercial in that broadcast will be about one of the majors.

If you can get some promotion and get those games on tv then you can begin to build a bigger audience than you have now. Not the audience they have...but a more profitable audience than you have now.

And what is the choice here? Fight...get relegated....or die. I'll take fight even if it is a losing proposition. Better to force them to shoot you in the head than you vote to do it yourself.

I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Hmmm. Then why didn't Idaho go FCS? They are the perfect example of a school that had every reason to drop down---yet they fought against that option at every turn. The reason is there is zero future in FCS. There is zero future in being in the division under big time football. Everyone is interested in the top division of football---and nobody could give a flying fig who wins the FCS, DivII, or Div-III championships. Nobody cares or notices the smaller divisions other than maybe the players parents. Im not trying to be disrespectful---it just is what it is. This is one instance where it is definitely MUCH better to be a small fish in a large pond.

What the big programs have is decades of history and money invested. Any of the smaller programs, given the right conditions, investments, and exposure can potentially over time become a viable P5 type program. The key is about being able to consistently put 40-50K in the stands each Saturday. If you have 10-20 teams that each can put between 40-50K in the stands each Saturday--you have a viable league that a national network will invest real money into. No FCS or "lower" division program is ever going to reach that level of interest.

So, to me, the key is to stay alive long enough at the top level of college football to develop into one of the 40K-50K programs. Long term, big picture, that's the name of the game in my mind for any G5 university. Time to get to work. The clock is ticking.

(01-17-2014 09:06 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:39 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:34 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Maybe for you. You can drop down if you like right now.

We spent a lot of money constructing stadium seats to meet the requirements. We lost home games to schedule at neutral sites to meet requirements. We followed every transition requirement. After all that time and money suddenly....psych...arbitrary moving target...get back down.

No thanks. I'd prefer that any school in that situation take their chances in court.

There is no way ASU would voluntarily relegate ourselves back to 2nd class. We've been there...done that, and vowed to never do it again.

My guess is that you'll find a large majority of G5 schools will say the same thing.

But you're already a second class school.

But as of right now, we still have the ability to win a National Championship, and participate against P5 schools in major bowl games. We would not voluntarily give up that chance...

(01-17-2014 09:08 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 09:06 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:39 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:34 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:27 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't really see this as a life or death situation. I think it would be in smaller school's best interest to stop trying force their way into the big time.

Maybe for you. You can drop down if you like right now.

We spent a lot of money constructing stadium seats to meet the requirements. We lost home games to schedule at neutral sites to meet requirements. We followed every transition requirement. After all that time and money suddenly....psych...arbitrary moving target...get back down.

No thanks. I'd prefer that any school in that situation take their chances in court.

There is no way ASU would voluntarily relegate ourselves back to 2nd class. We've been there...done that, and vowed to never do it again.

My guess is that you'll find a large majority of G5 schools will say the same thing.

But you're already a second class school.

But as of right now, we still have the ability to win a National Championship, and participate against P5 schools in major bowl games. We would not voluntarily give up that chance...

I just think that as a whole, G5 schools are being done a disservice by having a .0000001% chance of ever being a national champion. The new playoff doesn't make it any easier. I think that it would be much better if any random school in the G5 knew they had a chance to be the national champion. As it is now, that's a near impossibility.

(01-17-2014 09:05 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  This is a far better way to do it. I'm tired of people pretending that all FBS schools are the same. A lot people has a false sense of pride as a G5 school.

Like Idaho who should have dropped down to FCS the moment the WAC died? Sounds like there are plenty of reasons to at the very least be a G5 school.

This further shows why Ga. Southern and App. were so anxious to get into the FBS. Yes there may be a split coming between the P5 and G5, but being with the G5 is soooo much better than being stuck with the private schools and the motley crew that is left in the FCS.

(01-17-2014 09:06 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  But you're already a second class school.

So was ULM when they beat Arkansas and Georgia Southern when they beat Florida. Depending on what your definition of second-class is.

We are willing to play on a tilted playing field....Being excluded from the playing field is another matter.

What are your hopes for Idaho? That we all get downgraded together?

(01-17-2014 09:15 PM)Cougar King Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 09:05 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  This is a far better way to do it. I'm tired of people pretending that all FBS schools are the same. A lot people has a false sense of pride as a G5 school.

Like Idaho?

No delusions here.