Could be the same, if you don't get a conference invite you stay where you currently reside? FCS schools are dealing with this today. More qualified schools are not receiving the invites without lawsuits.

I don't think minimum athletic budgets will ever be used as a requirement. If it were to happen, I think G5 schools will become very creative with their accounting and, magically, AD budgets will double, triple or even more to reach the necessary threshold.

(01-18-2014 11:33 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  I don't think minimum athletic budgets will ever be used as a requirement. If it were to happen, I think G5 schools will become very creative with their accounting and, magically, AD budgets will double, triple or even more to reach the necessary threshold.

This is why all the talk is just spitballing at this point. You see budget numbers thrown around but there is a wide disparity in how those budgets are calculated. There is not a template for how athletic budgets are calculated.

Another problem is the "cost of attendance" idea. Again, with huge differences in tuition and cost of living from school to school, public and private, this is not an easily workable concept.

I don't see how they don't simply settle on a standard stipend and any school that can afford the stipend is going to be fine. Anything else just creates a clusterf#@* of inequity and legal headaches.

(01-18-2014 11:17 AM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:04 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Lawsuit?

Is there a difference in this move and the restrictions on universities' ability to move from FCS to FBS? If the current situation is legal I would assume this move would be legal?

They cant arbitrarily say though that X School cant play in the P5. They can set requirements that a school must reach, but if the school reaches that, they have to allow them in.

You say only 30M in Athletic Budget beyond this point? Okay...well what happens if a school like Texas State simply raises their athletic budget to 30M...do they get a Big 12 invite then?

Setting requirements is not illegal...but what you cant do is tell a school who fulfills those requirements they cant play. That's the primary reason I don't think there will be a true split. I think most P5 schools know that if they tried to shut the G5 out in a split, most would simply do what they need to do to reach that number. You also cant continually raise the bar because lower tier P5 schools wouldn't be able to keep up with all of those standards.

They really dont need to tell you that, that's where they win...that's why they're doing it on a conference level to begin with. If you aren't in one of those conferences you can do what you want but if they don't schedule you then you don't matter. And no lawsuit is going to make them put you on the schedule either.

Money makes them put you on a schedule. Sure, Texas and Alabama don't need G5 schools to survive. But schools like Wake, Ole Miss, Utah, etc...they need winnable home games. Something they cant get if they are only playing P5 teams.

Money talks

► The paying of players would only be the beginning if the P5 is given the power to make their own rules.
Next they would probably go back to unlimited number recruit signings. Giving the AD's more power they
could do away with basically any academic requirements.

Think it wouldn't happen? Just last week UNC at Chapel Hill was exposed again nationally for having 8% to 10% of their
football & basketball teams reading at or below third grade or lower level, and 60% reading from 4th to 8th grade level.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/09/us/ncaa-at...index.html

(01-18-2014 04:51 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Think it wouldn't happen? Just last week UNC at Chapel Hill was exposed again nationally for having 8% to 10% of their
football & basketball teams reading at or below third grade or lower level, and 60% reading from 4th to 8th grade level.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/09/us/ncaa-at...index.html

To be fair, though... Those stats are pretty close to par with the population of this board.

(01-18-2014 05:09 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 04:51 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Think it wouldn't happen? Just last week UNC at Chapel Hill was exposed again nationally for having 8% to 10% of their
football & basketball teams reading at or below third grade or lower level, and 60% reading from 4th to 8th grade level.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/09/us/ncaa-at...index.html

To be fair, though... Those stats are pretty close to par with the population of this board.

I would hope not. I know at App State two or three years ago we were recognized in the top 10 nationally
for the football teams academic excellence. In that list 8 of the 10 were Ivy League schools.

Oh, you said board, not teams. The joke went right by me at first.

(01-18-2014 05:18 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Oh, you said board, not teams. The joke went right by me at first.

Aim low Sheriff, they're riding Shetlands.

(01-17-2014 09:01 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 08:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It is remarkably funny that America is founded as a Democracy, and people are scared to death of Socialism, yet American Sports run on a Socialist principle, where the Elite are pretty much pre selected and share the wealth only with each other.

Many European Countries have government systems that are very close to socialism, but there sports run on a democratic system where access to the Elite is available to all who can play their way into it.

Representative republic, not a democracy.

Or, "Democratic Republic"... most certainly NOT a true democracy (and that's really a good thing if you think about it).

(01-18-2014 04:51 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  ► The paying of players would only be the beginning if the P5 is given the power to make their own rules.
Next they would probably go back to unlimited number recruit signings. Giving the AD's more power they
could do away with basically any academic requirements.

Think it wouldn't happen? Just last week UNC at Chapel Hill was exposed again nationally for having 8% to 10% of their
football & basketball teams reading at or below third grade or lower level, and 60% reading from 4th to 8th grade level.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/09/us/ncaa-at...index.html

There are quite a few players that go through the system that have to reason to be in college other then to play a sport. That is why there needs to be another route for these guys to get to the pro level. Either that or recognize them for what they are and allow trade schools to have athletic teams.

(01-18-2014 12:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 11:17 AM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:04 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Lawsuit?

Is there a difference in this move and the restrictions on universities' ability to move from FCS to FBS? If the current situation is legal I would assume this move would be legal?

They cant arbitrarily say though that X School cant play in the P5. They can set requirements that a school must reach, but if the school reaches that, they have to allow them in.

You say only 30M in Athletic Budget beyond this point? Okay...well what happens if a school like Texas State simply raises their athletic budget to 30M...do they get a Big 12 invite then?

Setting requirements is not illegal...but what you cant do is tell a school who fulfills those requirements they cant play. That's the primary reason I don't think there will be a true split. I think most P5 schools know that if they tried to shut the G5 out in a split, most would simply do what they need to do to reach that number. You also cant continually raise the bar because lower tier P5 schools wouldn't be able to keep up with all of those standards.

They really dont need to tell you that, that's where they win...that's why they're doing it on a conference level to begin with. If you aren't in one of those conferences you can do what you want but if they don't schedule you then you don't matter. And no lawsuit is going to make them put you on the schedule either.

Money makes them put you on a schedule. Sure, Texas and Alabama don't need G5 schools to survive. But schools like Wake, Ole Miss, Utah, etc...they need winnable home games. Something they cant get if they are only playing P5 teams.

Money talks

Ask yourself this, who is going to generate more sales of tickets, concessions, etc at a Wake, Ole Miss or Utah game...Texas, Georgia, Miami, Florida State, Michigan State, Oklahoma State...or Ark State, ECU, UAB, Tulane, or WKU? That's the thing with them, they can make their money regardless if they only play P5 teams. They also would no longer need to shell out 500k+ for a G5 to come to their stadium for those bodybag games. Ole Miss already has a series going with Texas also. Plus if you look at the history of when they play a G5 vs a P5 at home, the attendance is lower vs G5 teams. Don't be fooled.

(01-19-2014 04:44 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  Ask yourself this, who is going to generate more sales of tickets, concessions, etc at a Wake, Ole Miss or Utah game...Texas, Georgia, Miami, Florida State, Michigan State, Oklahoma State...or Ark State, ECU, UAB, Tulane, or WKU? That's the thing with them, they can make their money regardless if they only play P5 teams. They also would no longer need to shell out 500k+ for a G5 to come to their stadium for those bodybag games. Ole Miss already has a series going with Texas also. Plus if you look at the history of when they play a G5 vs a P5 at home, the attendance is lower vs G5 teams. Don't be fooled.

That sounds great. Except if you are Wake Forest your odds of winning go down playing Florida State, Texas, Georgia, etc. If your chances of winning goes down then your record sucks. If your record sucks then you are without a bowl game for decades. If you don't have a bowl game for decades your fans no longer give a crap about you and don't buy a lot of concessions. You lose money.

If those schools go along with playing only P5 schools then they are signing their own death warrants too.

"Power" schools want the odds tilted in their favor-more home dates=more$+more wins=bowls=more publicity,etc.(perceived success).You can't argue against the point made be ark30inf.

(01-19-2014 04:52 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-19-2014 04:44 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  Ask yourself this, who is going to generate more sales of tickets, concessions, etc at a Wake, Ole Miss or Utah game...Texas, Georgia, Miami, Florida State, Michigan State, Oklahoma State...or Ark State, ECU, UAB, Tulane, or WKU? That's the thing with them, they can make their money regardless if they only play P5 teams. They also would no longer need to shell out 500k+ for a G5 to come to their stadium for those bodybag games. Ole Miss already has a series going with Texas also. Plus if you look at the history of when they play a G5 vs a P5 at home, the attendance is lower vs G5 teams. Don't be fooled.

That sounds great. Except if you are Wake Forest your odds of winning go down playing Florida State, Texas, Georgia, etc. If your chances of winning goes down then your record sucks. If your record sucks then you are without a bowl game for decades. If you don't have a bowl game for decades your fans no longer give a crap about you and don't buy a lot of concessions. You lose money.

If those schools go along with playing only P5 schools then they are signing their own death warrants too.

Its also a question of getting 6-7 home games every season. What one has to ask is will the Wake Forests of the world do one and done with a Texas or Georgia? I'm not so sure that they will since they will also be riding the money train. I believe that they will be demanding a one for one or at worst, a two for one.

Yup, the upper P5 schools will go from playing all but one non-conference game at home in an average year to half every year. Schools like Texas will actually lose money in these cases. That's why they like guarantee games to begin with.

From the way it sounds, P5 will be given the power to set and implement a stipend. It will be up to G5 conferences to choose whether or not they want to as well. Every G5 school will agree to implement one in the end.

The question will then become what will FCS teams do.

(01-20-2014 12:20 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  From the way it sounds, P5 will be given the power to set and implement a stipend. It will be up to G5 conferences to choose whether or not they want to as well. Every G5 school will agree to implement one in the end.

The question will then become what will FCS teams do.

FCS is screwed. The G5 barely has enough money for stipends. No way most FCS programs can afford it---especially since the number of FCS body bag games are going to drop due to the selection committee emphasis on SOS and the 9 game conference schedules being implemented in several P-5 conferences. Keep in mind every G5 team will get over 1 million a year in College Football Playoff money. FCS schools are not getting anything close to that.

Δ
The entire purpose of the P5 schools is to collect all the money they can and
win every game conceivable. A level playing field is not to their benefit. If
it doesn't help them then it must change in some way to help them. Nothing
else matters.

We have just completed the golden financial age of college football. With all these changes, there will be decreasing interest as these changes are made. For all the reasons mentioned.