Unbelievable loss. To UB????

(01-15-2014 08:53 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Really depressing. Took 23 more shots than UB. Just couldn't hit any of them. Shot better from 3 than 2. Killed on the boards. Won the turnover battle. Really depressing loss.

Really short bench tonight. Sophie was the only freshman to play extensively and that was largely due to Crunch's foul trouble.

(01-15-2014 08:52 PM)NewMex RocketFan Wrote:  Pathetic! Bulls get their first win in the MAC. Finishing third in the MAC West will be a challenge unless this team develops. Too many weak links.

Just depends. Miami is beating Akron with a couple seconds left, so that win looks better. And CMU had a heck of a tussle with NIU, so the NIU win doesn't look as bad either.

Agree we should have beaten UB badly, but this continues to be a work in progress.

(01-15-2014 08:55 PM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-15-2014 08:53 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Really depressing. Took 23 more shots than UB. Just couldn't hit any of them. Shot better from 3 than 2. Killed on the boards. Won the turnover battle. Really depressing loss.

Really short bench tonight. Sophie was the only freshman to play extensively and that was largely due to Crunch's foul trouble.

Coach says that Elena and Janice didn't play much because they did not handle the pressure well when they were in during the first half.

I think that the reality is that wins on the road in the MAC will be hard to come by this year.

Like I said...wait til next year or the season after that. Simply not enough weapons this season. Good news is there will be no discussion of Cullop going anywhere else at the end of this season. But I do agree that even just getting to a winning season will be a big challenge.

Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

The most impressive thing about this game is that you all have an 11 page thread about the game. I give you props for that!

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

Pathetic???? YES--- No matter how you dice it or slice it, shooting 25% from the field is pretty sad.

Unbelievable Loss???? NO---as you point out this is a rebuilding year with a very young team with little depth in experience---so when your experienced players have an off night, there is no one there to step up and cover for them.

Anyone who followed the team last year should have been fully aware that this year was going to be a rebuilding year with all of the ups and downs that rebuilding entails. Unlike last year, the measure of success for this team should be the amount of improvement seen over the course of the season, not one bad game or even necessarily the W-L record.

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

I agree that we have to accept that there will be games like this in 2013-14. The worrisome thing for me is the apparent slow progress. I think the best of coach Cullop but it seems she might be getting impatient with the new players. For example she had a very short bench last night. Oliva Braun didn't play. Janice Monakana played 4 minutes. Elena De Alfredo played 9 minutes in the first half but didn't get in at all in the second half. Only Sophie Reecher played significant minutes (16). And that was primarily because Jones was in foul trouble. Dola played 40 minues and Inma and Janelle at least 35 minutes and two of them are gone next year.

Seems to me that the Buffalo game was one where the freshman should have been on the floor. There does not seem to be a big talent discrepancy between Buffalo and Toledo and the game was on the line throughout the second half. Isn't that the kind of game where freshmen could benefit from significant game exposure? I heard coach say post game that Janice and Elena didn't handle the pressure when they were in the game but I don't see how that gets better unless they get this kind of game exposure. I mean I know it's hindsight but we lost the game anyway, right? Would have liked to think that it was at least a learning experience for the players who will determine the success of the program going forward.

(01-16-2014 08:02 AM)zrb2 Wrote:  The most impressive thing about this game is that you all have an 11 page thread about the game. I give you props for that!

Thanks. We care about our women's team as well as the men's squad.

Congratulations on the win last night.

(01-16-2014 08:09 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

I agree that we have to accept that there will be games like this in 2013-14. The worrisome thing for me is the apparent slow progress. I think the best of coach Cullop but it seems she might be getting impatient with the new players. For example she had a very short bench last night. Oliva Braun didn't play. Janice Monakana played 4 minutes. Elena De Alfredo played 9 minutes in the first half but didn't get in at all in the second half. Only Sophie Reecher played significant minutes (16). And that was primarily because Jones was in foul trouble. Dola played 40 minues and Inma and Janelle at least 35 minutes and two of them are gone next year.

Seems to me that the Buffalo game was one where the freshman should have been on the floor. There does not seem to be a big talent discrepancy between Buffalo and Toledo and the game was on the line throughout the second half. Isn't that the kind of game where freshmen could benefit from significant game exposure? I heard coach say post game that Janice and Elena didn't handle the pressure when they were in the game but I don't see how that gets better unless they get this kind of game exposure. I mean I know it's hindsight but we lost the game anyway, right? Would have liked to think that it was at least a learning experience for the players who will determine the success of the program going forward.

I think at some point this season--maybe the last few weeks if we are mathematically out of the Division picture, and if all 5 of the freshmen are healthy (which this season seems to be a big "if", unfortunately), then I'd like to see Coach Cullop make a solid investment in their future, and play them significant minutes. And no, I'm not saying "punish" the Seniors or even Inma--there are plenty of minutes to share in a game and, assuming they're healthy, I'd like to see all of the freshmen getting 10+ minutes a game down the stretch. Even though they'd likely struggle a bit while learning under game conditions it will help in a future that will be here quickly. No offense to our seniors--Crunch and Reed-Lewis have contributed more effectively than I hoped they would, and Dola has played tough as always, even though it appears she isn't 100%. But at some point, the focus needs to move to the future of the program, doesn't it?

(01-16-2014 08:09 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

I agree that we have to accept that there will be games like this in 2013-14. The worrisome thing for me is the apparent slow progress. I think the best of coach Cullop but it seems she might be getting impatient with the new players. For example she had a very short bench last night. Oliva Braun didn't play. Janice Monakana played 4 minutes. Elena De Alfredo played 9 minutes in the first half but didn't get in at all in the second half. Only Sophie Reecher played significant minutes (16). And that was primarily because Jones was in foul trouble. Dola played 40 minues and Inma and Janelle at least 35 minutes and two of them are gone next year.
Seems to me that the Buffalo game was one where the freshman should have been on the floor. There does not seem to be a big talent discrepancy between Buffalo and Toledo and the game was on the line throughout the second half. Isn't that the kind of game where freshmen could benefit from significant game exposure? I heard coach say post game that Janice and Elena didn't handle the pressure when they were in the game but I don't see how that gets better unless they get this kind of game exposure. I mean I know it's hindsight but we lost the game anyway, right? Would have liked to think that it was at least a learning experience for the players who will
determine the success of the program going forward.

The bench minutes always dry up when conference play begins. We may see a rebuilding season but the reason they play games is to win. Players who prove they are ready will play. That may not include many frosh.

(01-16-2014 08:31 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:09 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

I agree that we have to accept that there will be games like this in 2013-14. The worrisome thing for me is the apparent slow progress. I think the best of coach Cullop but it seems she might be getting impatient with the new players. For example she had a very short bench last night. Oliva Braun didn't play. Janice Monakana played 4 minutes. Elena De Alfredo played 9 minutes in the first half but didn't get in at all in the second half. Only Sophie Reecher played significant minutes (16). And that was primarily because Jones was in foul trouble. Dola played 40 minues and Inma and Janelle at least 35 minutes and two of them are gone next year.
Seems to me that the Buffalo game was one where the freshman should have been on the floor. There does not seem to be a big talent discrepancy between Buffalo and Toledo and the game was on the line throughout the second half. Isn't that the kind of game where freshmen could benefit from significant game exposure? I heard coach say post game that Janice and Elena didn't handle the pressure when they were in the game but I don't see how that gets better unless they get this kind of game exposure. I mean I know it's hindsight but we lost the game anyway, right? Would have liked to think that it was at least a learning experience for the players who will
determine the success of the program going forward.

The bench minutes always dry up when conference play begins. We may see a rebuilding season but the reason they play games is to win. Players who prove they are ready will play. That may not include many frosh.

Need to balance winning this year against longer term prospects. I get that. But it is increasingly looking like the team will not contend for division leadership or a high MAC tourney seed this year. So I would expect that developing the younger players should become a bit more of a priority. I mean there are five of them. If none of them is progressing to the point of meaningful minutes (and we are past the half way mark in the season) we are in real trouble.

Getting back to last night's game. Dola played 40 minutes. She did not score in the first half. Ended up 3/13 shooting including 0/4 from 3 point range. Had 2 assists and 6 turnovers. Inma played 38 minutes. She was a monster on the boards with 16 rebounds including 12 on the offensive end. But she was 4/19 shooting. And Janelle played 35 minutes. She was 5/13 shooting which was good but she had only 2 assists and 5 turnovers including a couple of crucial turnovers late. The last one was in the final minute (I think) and was a real dagger in the heart. So it isn't like the starters were playing all that good either.

(01-16-2014 09:08 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:31 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:09 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

I agree that we have to accept that there will be games like this in 2013-14. The worrisome thing for me is the apparent slow progress. I think the best of coach Cullop but it seems she might be getting impatient with the new players. For example she had a very short bench last night. Oliva Braun didn't play. Janice Monakana played 4 minutes. Elena De Alfredo played 9 minutes in the first half but didn't get in at all in the second half. Only Sophie Reecher played significant minutes (16). And that was primarily because Jones was in foul trouble. Dola played 40 minues and Inma and Janelle at least 35 minutes and two of them are gone next year.
Seems to me that the Buffalo game was one where the freshman should have been on the floor. There does not seem to be a big talent discrepancy between Buffalo and Toledo and the game was on the line throughout the second half. Isn't that the kind of game where freshmen could benefit from significant game exposure? I heard coach say post game that Janice and Elena didn't handle the pressure when they were in the game but I don't see how that gets better unless they get this kind of game exposure. I mean I know it's hindsight but we lost the game anyway, right? Would have liked to think that it was at least a learning experience for the players who will
determine the success of the program going forward.

The bench minutes always dry up when conference play begins. We may see a rebuilding season but the reason they play games is to win. Players who prove they are ready will play. That may not include many frosh.

Need to balance winning this year against longer term prospects. I get that. But it is increasingly looking like the team will not contend for division leadership or a high MAC tourney seed this year. So I would expect that developing the younger players should become a bit more of a priority. I mean there are five of them. If none of them is progressing to the point of meaningful minutes (and we are past the half way mark in the season) we are in real trouble.

Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes. I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:08 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:31 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:09 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

I agree that we have to accept that there will be games like this in 2013-14. The worrisome thing for me is the apparent slow progress. I think the best of coach Cullop but it seems she might be getting impatient with the new players. For example she had a very short bench last night. Oliva Braun didn't play. Janice Monakana played 4 minutes. Elena De Alfredo played 9 minutes in the first half but didn't get in at all in the second half. Only Sophie Reecher played significant minutes (16). And that was primarily because Jones was in foul trouble. Dola played 40 minues and Inma and Janelle at least 35 minutes and two of them are gone next year.
Seems to me that the Buffalo game was one where the freshman should have been on the floor. There does not seem to be a big talent discrepancy between Buffalo and Toledo and the game was on the line throughout the second half. Isn't that the kind of game where freshmen could benefit from significant game exposure? I heard coach say post game that Janice and Elena didn't handle the pressure when they were in the game but I don't see how that gets better unless they get this kind of game exposure. I mean I know it's hindsight but we lost the game anyway, right? Would have liked to think that it was at least a learning experience for the players who will
determine the success of the program going forward.

The bench minutes always dry up when conference play begins. We may see a rebuilding season but the reason they play games is to win. Players who prove they are ready will play. That may not include many frosh.

Need to balance winning this year against longer term prospects. I get that. But it is increasingly looking like the team will not contend for division leadership or a high MAC tourney seed this year. So I would expect that developing the younger players should become a bit more of a priority. I mean there are five of them. If none of them is progressing to the point of meaningful minutes (and we are past the half way mark in the season) we are in real trouble.

Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes. I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

What do we define as a key game? Was on the road at Buffalo (0-3 in the MAC) a key game? If it is then every MAC game is key.

(01-16-2014 09:29 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  then every MAC game is key.

There you go.

(01-16-2014 09:44 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:29 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:08 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:31 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  The bench minutes always dry up when conference play begins. We may see a rebuilding season but the reason they play games is to win. Players who prove they are ready will play. That may not include many frosh.

Need to balance winning this year against longer term prospects. I get that. But it is increasingly looking like the team will not contend for division leadership or a high MAC tourney seed this year. So I would expect that developing the younger players should become a bit more of a priority. I mean there are five of them. If none of them is progressing to the point of meaningful minutes (and we are past the half way mark in the season) we are in real trouble.

Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes. I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

What do we define as a key game? Was on the road at Buffalo (0-3 in the MAC) a key game? If it is then every MAC game is key.

There you go.

Key to what?

(01-16-2014 09:47 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:44 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:29 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:08 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  Need to balance winning this year against longer term prospects. I get that. But it is increasingly looking like the team will not contend for division leadership or a high MAC tourney seed this year. So I would expect that developing the younger players should become a bit more of a priority. I mean there are five of them. If none of them is progressing to the point of meaningful minutes (and we are past the half way mark in the season) we are in real trouble.

Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes. I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

What do we define as a key game? Was on the road at Buffalo (0-3 in the MAC) a key game? If it is then every MAC game is key.

There you go.

Key to what?

Winning conference games.

(01-16-2014 08:19 AM)cnyrocketfan Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 08:02 AM)zrb2 Wrote:  The most impressive thing about this game is that you all have an 11 page thread about the game. I give you props for that!

Thanks. We care about our women's team as well as the men's squad.

Congratulations on the win last night.

That's cool. Not much talk about womens hoops on the Bulls board. I don't know much about WBB at UB but i do know they are under some pressure to start winning (not just competing). The "new" coach is not so new anymore and the AD wants results, now. Losing their first 3 in the MAC was not acceptable even though they played a couple really good teams. That being said, I don't think Toledo losing was pathetic in any way. UB really wanted that game, badly and needed it.