(01-10-2014 12:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  The bigger issue, IMO is the $$ needed to buy out Braun. That extension is really going to kill us.

The best bet for change is that a new AD is in control.

A new AD is not going to let a potential money making program (and basketball is easier to become profitable than football) continue to be an albatross on the department and his position.

If Dr. K wants to be an AD at Stanford or another G5 school, the men's basketball team cannot continue to be 61-112 over a 6 year period.

Would the board be willing to take the buyout hit if it's attributed to the previous AD and Dr. K is fixing this 'mess'?

(01-10-2014 01:01 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  That was a tough game to lose. According to kenpom, we are projected to go 9-20. It isn't exactly murderer's row in C-USA, but we have obviously not played well enough. We have improved from last year in terms of adjusted offensive and defensive efficiency (about 3.5 points per 100 possessions in each category), but we still have a long way to go to get to mediocre overall.

I'm all for a change. My question is where does the money come from to make it happen.

Conference USA (sunbelt 2.0) is now rated 17th out of 32 conferences, when it was typically 10th during the previous iteration. Braun should do better than 1-15 in conference (and overall, Braun is 19-61 in CUSA).

(01-10-2014 10:50 AM)WIowl Wrote:  

(01-10-2014 10:40 AM)Mademen Wrote:  Jeff Van Gun-Dy CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP, Jeff Van Gun-Dy CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP. Give him $1 million and let him go to work.

If he'll take it, hire him ASAP.

That would be a HUGE, positive hire for Rice.

I also don't think he (JVG) would make that kind of move in the middle of a year. For several reasons. But the desperation, middle of the season move has been discussed on this board before (including 2012 in football, when a mid-season move, in hindsight, would've proven to be disastrous. Whatever the goals were that were set for Braun for 2013-14, he should be afforded the season to try and meet them.

If Rice wanted to make a splash, they would go after JVG at the end of the year.

Even if it fails, if the public knew that Rice was willing to go after someone of his caliber, our name would be in the news and it would be obvious that we were serious about fielding a competitive MBB team.

(01-10-2014 04:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  If Rice wanted to make a splash, they would go after JVG at the end of the year.

Even if it fails, if the public knew that Rice was willing to go after someone of his caliber, our name would be in the news and it would be obvious that we were serious about fielding a competitive MBB team.

Didn't JVG turn down Rice prior to Braun's hire ? Seem to recall he wasn't interested in college ball.

We have hit bottoms before when men's BB has been terrible for more than one season. Examples are when the last years of Polk in the 1970s and WW in the year of exile from campus. The attendance is not there when the team wins only a handful of games in a season. Braun needs to be dumped at the end of this season or it will be seen that we tolerate bad basketball.

(01-10-2014 12:22 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  The most disturbing numbers to me from tonight are not "71-60" or even "5-8" (our record).

The most disturbing number to me is "965" (attendance).

Conference affiliation is clearly part of this, albeit a small one. We've bottomed out in interest.

(01-10-2014 10:22 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  I will never forget a game towards the end of 2012 that was really important for the season and the look on the team's faces coming out of the locker room right before the tipoff at the sad, mediocre crowd. And of course, this was in the middle of the magnificent marketing campaign undertaken to get the word out on this exciting team (tongue in cheek).

This.
Success on the court and game attendance are a chicken and the egg sort of phenomenon of course. But I contend that Rice's fan support problem affects our recruitment and play far, far more than our success or lack thereof affects attendance. Our attendance has always been dismal. Our marketing has always been nil. The only exception is when success occasionally reaches such an extraordinarily high level that the students are forced to pay attention - - and then it becomes a one-time "event". (e.g. recent football championship game)
It's no coincidence that this team played A&M to within two points in front of 10,000 in College Station, and lost by 11 to FIU in front of 150 at home.
I think it's absurd to blame Braun for everything. We knew we wouldn't be good this year, still recovering from our program's holocaust - - which from what we know was largely due to the changing landscape of college MBB + Greenspan + Marcos + lack of fan support.

(01-10-2014 04:28 PM)Da.Owl Wrote:  Didn't JVG turn down Rice prior to Braun's hire ? Seem to recall he wasn't interested in college ball.

He's interested enough that he's a regular at home games of two different NCAA teams in town.

(01-10-2014 01:57 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I didn't see the Princeton or Texas games but Obi can play for Harvard (and Princeton I imagine). In fact, I suspect he had a bad game because he was trying too hard in that contest. I don't know about the Florida kid who is hurt and redshirting (Denzel Davis) but he might be in that category too. Drone's size would help him get a look at a lot of schools but he still needs to improve his footwork and stamina (and I think he has done so a bit this year already). Keith Washington could develop into a nice upperclass player if he adds a bit more strength. Marcus Jackson and Drew Bender are decent looking prospects. We would have been a lot more competitive in each of the last two games if Jackson wasn't hurt (he wasn't dressed for Harvard - he was dressed for FIU but didn't play). If we keep them around and they gain strength and improve their all-around games, they would be similar to some of the better players on other teams we've faced this year.

Most of our other guys are tweeners or not high level D1 prospects but that's been the case for decades with our basketball program. Even the best guys were usually an inch or two smaller than you'd like to see at their positions, or just a step too slow.

The program's future isn't as bleak as some are saying but the key is to keep the guys we've got right now (which obviously is a huge if based on Braun's track record). And they need to improve. Washington has improved his game a bit from last year (although he was pressing a bit last night). Guercy has not and that's hurting our offense.

I don't think we have to worry if these guys want to transfer. Who would want them how they played.

(01-10-2014 01:57 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I didn't see the Princeton or Texas games but Obi can play for Harvard (and Princeton I imagine). In fact, I suspect he had a bad game because he was trying too hard in that contest. I don't know about the Florida kid who is hurt and redshirting (Denzel Davis) but he might be in that category too. Drone's size would help him get a look at a lot of schools but he still needs to improve his footwork and stamina (and I think he has done so a bit this year already). Keith Washington could develop into a nice upperclass player if he adds a bit more strength. Marcus Jackson and Drew Bender are decent looking prospects. We would have been a lot more competitive in each of the last two games if Jackson wasn't hurt (he wasn't dressed for Harvard - he was dressed for FIU but didn't play). If we keep them around and they gain strength and improve their all-around games, they would be similar to some of the better players on other teams we've faced this year.

Most of our other guys are tweeners or not high level D1 prospects but that's been the case for decades with our basketball program. Even the best guys were usually an inch or two smaller than you'd like to see at their positions, or just a step too slow.

The program's future isn't as bleak as some are saying but the key is to keep the guys we've got right now (which obviously is a huge if based on Braun's track record). And they need to improve. Washington has improved his game a bit from last year (although he was pressing a bit last night). Guercy has not and that's hurting our offense.

[/quote]

(01-11-2014 01:35 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  I don't think we have to worry if these guys want to transfer. Who would want them how they played.

(01-10-2014 01:57 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I didn't see the Princeton or Texas games but Obi can play for Harvard (and Princeton I imagine). In fact, I suspect he had a bad game because he was trying too hard in that contest. I don't know about the Florida kid who is hurt and redshirting (Denzel Davis) but he might be in that category too. Drone's size would help him get a look at a lot of schools but he still needs to improve his footwork and stamina (and I think he has done so a bit this year already). Keith Washington could develop into a nice upperclass player if he adds a bit more strength. Marcus Jackson and Drew Bender are decent looking prospects. We would have been a lot more competitive in each of the last two games if Jackson wasn't hurt (he wasn't dressed for Harvard - he was dressed for FIU but didn't play). If we keep them around and they gain strength and improve their all-around games, they would be similar to some of the better players on other teams we've faced this year.

Most of our other guys are tweeners or not high level D1 prospects but that's been the case for decades with our basketball program. Even the best guys were usually an inch or two smaller than you'd like to see at their positions, or just a step too slow.

The program's future isn't as bleak as some are saying but the key is to keep the guys we've got right now (which obviously is a huge if based on Braun's track record). And they need to improve. Washington has improved his game a bit from last year (although he was pressing a bit last night). Guercy has not and that's hurting our offense.

[/quote]
Sorry to say I agree with that

The 10K at A&M is about as believable as the 925 at Tudor the other night. No way Reed was over half full for the game.

(01-10-2014 01:57 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I didn't see the Princeton or Texas games but Obi can play for Harvard (and Princeton I imagine). In fact, I suspect he had a bad game because he was trying too hard in that contest. I don't know about the Florida kid who is hurt and redshirting (Denzel Davis) but he might be in that category too. Drone's size would help him get a look at a lot of schools but he still needs to improve his footwork and stamina (and I think he has done so a bit this year already). Keith Washington could develop into a nice upperclass player if he adds a bit more strength. Marcus Jackson and Drew Bender are decent looking prospects. We would have been a lot more competitive in each of the last two games if Jackson wasn't hurt (he wasn't dressed for Harvard - he was dressed for FIU but didn't play). If we keep them around and they gain strength and improve their all-around games, they would be similar to some of the better players on other teams we've faced this year.

Most of our other guys are tweeners or not high level D1 prospects but that's been the case for decades with our basketball program. Even the best guys were usually an inch or two smaller than you'd like to see at their positions, or just a step too slow.

The program's future isn't as bleak as some are saying but the key is to keep the guys we've got right now (which obviously is a huge if based on Braun's track record). And they need to improve. Washington has improved his game a bit from last year (although he was pressing a bit last night). Guercy has not and that's hurting our offense.

I agree with this assessment. Pavic (sp) is a nice aggressive offensive player too, and I hate to think where we'd be without Austin draining 3's from the cheap seats. These guys project well as 20 year olds and we have to remember they really shouldn't even be playing right now. That said, Braun is doing nothing but cashing checks at this point, and I fear that we may not have found bottom performance wise because of it.

(01-10-2014 09:31 PM)Barney Wrote:  

(01-10-2014 10:22 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  I will never forget a game towards the end of 2012 that was really important for the season and the look on the team's faces coming out of the locker room right before the tipoff at the sad, mediocre crowd. And of course, this was in the middle of the magnificent marketing campaign undertaken to get the word out on this exciting team (tongue in cheek).

This.
Success on the court and game attendance are a chicken and the egg sort of phenomenon of course. But I contend that Rice's fan support problem affects our recruitment and play far, far more than our success or lack thereof affects attendance. Our attendance has always been dismal. Our marketing has always been nil. The only exception is when success occasionally reaches such an extraordinarily high level that the students are forced to pay attention - - and then it becomes a one-time "event". (e.g. recent football championship game)
It's no coincidence that this team played A&M to within two points in front of 10,000 in College Station, and lost by 11 to FIU in front of 150 at home.
I think it's absurd to blame Braun for everything. We knew we wouldn't be good this year, still recovering from our program's holocaust - - which from what we know was largely due to the changing landscape of college MBB + Greenspan + Marcos + lack of fan support.

Perhaps we can petition the conference to put all of our games on the road then?

While fan support certainly helps, I wish we would stop citing it as a factor in the failures of our programs-- because it's not going to just change. Our alumni base is not going to increase 10x. No amount of luck or marketing is going to convince local fans of national TV audiences to suddenly invest their time and $ to watch comparatively poor basketball/football. There's not a realistic path to building a program through fan support for Rice.

The only way it changes is through the converse in which building a program creates fan support. We've seen that done successfully with baseball.

(01-10-2014 01:41 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  I don't have an answer on the money side.

There was a comment earlier in the thread about our playing frosh and soph against their juniors and seniors.

Setting aside Braun's poor record on retaining recruits, can anyone look objectively at the better teams we have played (Harvard, Princeton, Texas) and tell me that any of our players would be--or even projects to be--a significant contributor on that quality of team.

I guess what really bothers me is that IF we had the guys who were going to grow into the group that would compete in CUSA, they wouldn't be losing to these absolutely dreadful teams, no matter how young they are.

I believe Bender had a Princeton offer, so they at least seemed to consider him a projected contributor to their team.

I'll be curious to see how the young players look towards the end of the season. Physical maturation is significantly less important in MBB than in either football or baseball, so I don't think we need 3 years to know what we have. But early nerves and comfort level issues at the start of careers could be a factor.

(01-11-2014 11:14 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  I agree with this assessment. Pavic (sp) is a nice aggressive offensive player too, and I hate to think where we'd be without Austin draining 3's from the cheap seats. These guys project well as 20 year olds and we have to remember they really shouldn't even be playing right now. That said, Braun is doing nothing but cashing checks at this point, and I fear that we may not have found bottom performance wise because of it.

Honest question: what do you mean by "shouldn't even be playing now?" Kapic is 21. Ramljak is 22 and a senior.

(01-11-2014 02:33 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(01-11-2014 11:14 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  I agree with this assessment. Pavic (sp) is a nice aggressive offensive player too, and I hate to think where we'd be without Austin draining 3's from the cheap seats. These guys project well as 20 year olds and we have to remember they really shouldn't even be playing right now. That said, Braun is doing nothing but cashing checks at this point, and I fear that we may not have found bottom performance wise because of it.

Honest question: what do you mean by "shouldn't even be playing now?" Kapic is 21. Ramljak is 22 and a senior.

And I noted that those two look like they belong on the court. If we had Austin during the Harris years...I was thinking mainly Obi and Drone and even Wilson. Great potential with some good big man coaching, but in a lot of these games just keeping up with the jump in pace of play has seemed like a chore let alone establishing any sort of inside presence or continuity to their games.

(01-11-2014 02:47 PM)mebehutchi Wrote:  And I noted that those two look like they belong on the court. If we had Austin during the Harris years...I was thinking mainly Obi and Drone and even Wilson. Great potential with some good big man coaching, but in a lot of these games just keeping up with the jump in pace of play has seemed like a chore let alone establishing any sort of inside presence or continuity to their games.

Oh, that makes sense. I misunderstood the "these guys" in your first post.

The Harris years are a sore spot for me (and probably many others). Those teams had a lot of talent. Morris Almond was quite a proficient shooter but got less playing time than Jamaal Moore until Harris, McKrieth, and Gillespie graduated.

(01-11-2014 07:47 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(01-11-2014 02:47 PM)mebehutchi Wrote:  And I noted that those two look like they belong on the court. If we had Austin during the Harris years...I was thinking mainly Obi and Drone and even Wilson. Great potential with some good big man coaching, but in a lot of these games just keeping up with the jump in pace of play has seemed like a chore let alone establishing any sort of inside presence or continuity to their games.

Oh, that makes sense. I misunderstood the "these guys" in your first post.

The Harris years are a sore spot for me (and probably many others). Those teams had a lot of talent. Morris Almond was quite a proficient shooter but got less playing time than Jamaal Moore until Harris, McKrieth, and Gillespie graduated.

Me too still can't believe there wasn't some way to provide such a shooter with some minutes. And earlier use of Walt chancellor as a tempo change hustler type. But loved that wildly effective full court man to man and the famous offense of driving down the lane with 5 seconds on the clock