http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf...arriv.html

Some interesting direct quotes from O'Brien.

O’Brien’s ire also was raised that day by my suggestion that a faction of Joe Paterno-era loyalists seemed to me to be miffed by Vanderlinden’s departure or dismissal, depending upon their view, and that they might want some sort of explanation. The former linebackers coach had been the second-longest-tenured member of the staff, dating to 2000, one of only two remaining staff members hired by the legendary coach. This really got O’Brien going:

“You can print this: You can print that I don’t really give a ---- what the ‘Paterno people’ think about what I do with this program. I’ve done everything I can to show respect to Coach Paterno. Everything in my power. So I could really care less about what the Paterno faction of people, or whatever you call them, think about what I do with the program. I’m tired of it.

“For any ‘Paterno person’ to have any objection to what I’m doing, it makes me wanna put my fist through this windshield right now.”

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2014/1/1...dnt-get-it

'Joebots'

Plenty of ways to spin on this.

A cynic could suggest that O'Brien expected an NFL offer and was setting the stage for an "I was forced out" excuse instead of the charge that he was "abandoning" the program.

Or maybe the Cult of Paterno just won't accept that Paterno was forced out in disgrace. Maybe they don't accept he's dead. (I'm reminded of the old Chevy Chase SNL bit which I will paraphrase "Coach Paterno is still dead.") In any event, all the talk about following a legend is exponentially worse that anyone could imagine.

It also raises questions about the Paternoistas. Are they committed to see Penn State's football program flounder in order to punish the University for their treatment of Joe? Think about how totally fu@#ed up this would be.

Finally, this might make it all the more difficult for Penn State to hire a quality coach.

I look forward to any Paternoista response telling me how stupid I am.

Just make it go away.

lol @ 'joebots'

The Joebots will eventually fade and go away.

Personally, I think most of it was making it a lot more than should have been. I can very sympathize with the people at Penn State who didn't care for Paterno quickly being labeled as a bad person after all the years when the opposite was true. Things like adding names to the jerseys shouldn't have been done when so much else was changing either. Really what did the Paterno people want besides some recognition to remain for the former coach and a few traditions? There may have been a few others, but that was what defined 90% of them which was fine.

Penn State is in a position whereby the legacy of one man (deceased) hovers over the entire athletic department, and will continue to do so for a long time.

Having watched a similar process unfold at Alabama in the 25 years after Bear Bryant's resignation (and death a month after that), I can tell you that it is possible for Penn State to have a lot of football success even while they're dealing with this. (Whether they actually will or not, time will tell). But the off-field drama, recriminations, and internal-conflict will be overflowing for a long, long time. Anyone who doubts that is living in a dream.

I know that some Penn State fans believe that "the problems" have been dealt with, are over now, and nobody should talk about them anymore. Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

(01-02-2014 10:12 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Penn State is in a position whereby the legacy of one man (deceased) hovers over the entire athletic department, and will continue to do so for a long time.

Having watched a similar process unfold at Alabama in the 25 years after Bear Bryant's resignation (and death a month after that), I can tell you that it is possible for Penn State to have a lot of football success even while they're dealing with this. (Whether they actually will or not, time will tell). But the off-field drama, recriminations, and internal-conflict will be overflowing for a long, long time. Anyone who doubts that is living in a dream.

I know that some Penn State fans believe that "the problems" have been dealt with, are over now, and nobody should talk about them anymore. Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

Name on the jerseys were a trribute to the kids who stayed to tough it out. I have no problem with it. If you want to pull them off in two or three years, after these classes have graduated, that's cool too...

The quote about moving "an inch or two" back towards the old made me cringe.

That program has to make a complete and total break from the Joe Pa years. Fair or not that image has been forever stained.

(01-02-2014 01:11 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The quote about moving "an inch or two" back towards the old made me cringe.

That program has to make a complete and total break from the Joe Pa years. Fair or not that image has been forever stained.

Bingo! Bear (love him or hate him) left nothing but honor to the Alabama brand. Sure there were some recruiting allegations over the years, but big deal, that's life in big time college football. What happened at Penn State is a complete breach of the core values of the institution and the melt began within the Penn State football coaching staff the director of which was Joe Paterno and spread quickly and fatally to the administration of the University.

At this point the healthiest thing that Penn State could do is to totally change the face of the program and rebuild a better brand thereby redeeming the school. Personal time needs to be spent with the most dedicated of Joe fans urging them to participate in the process. Only after they redeem the brand of the school can they acknowledge the on field accomplishments of the former Penn State teams and players without awakening the troubles.

What astonishes me is the extent of the identification not ultimately with the institution, but the man. The chant is "We are....Penn State!", yet many act as though it was "We are...Joe Pa!" and give him sole credit for any of the positives that occurred during his tenure.

If they really want to do things the right way (and I do think that while no program is perfect, they did do a lot of things right before getting one thing monumentally wrong), I think they should expend their energy to that front moving forward, and not spend so much time and effort trying to rehab his image.

In reality the same thing goes on at every institution, the "worship" of a coach who many consider to be the gold standard of where they want their program to be. The big difference is in the stature of the coach. It's also not always a bad thing, nor is it always a good thing. Just because someone comes from a certain coaching tree doesn't mean they are capable of resurrecting past glory.

The problem I see for the "Paterno People" or "Joebots" is there really isn't anybody on Paterno's tree that IMO would be a home-run.

http://coachingroots.com/football/coache...ching-tree

(01-02-2014 03:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  In reality the same thing goes on at every institution, the "worship" of a coach who many consider to be the gold standard of where they want their program to be. The big difference is in the stature of the coach. It's also not always a bad thing, nor is it always a good thing. Just because someone comes from a certain coaching tree doesn't mean they are capable of resurrecting past glory.

The problem I see for the "Paterno People" or "Joebots" is there really isn't anybody on Paterno's tree that IMO would be a home-run.

http://coachingroots.com/football/coache...ching-tree

You're completely naive about Central Pennsylvania if you think what happens there goes on at most or even any other program. The magnitude of the cult of personality surrounding that man and the program reached levels unprecedented elsewhere in sports and can only find analogy in some of history's worst examples.

This would be funnier if it didn't have some truth in it.

http://www.sportspickle.com/2014/01/appl...-coach-job

(01-02-2014 03:26 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-02-2014 03:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  In reality the same thing goes on at every institution, the "worship" of a coach who many consider to be the gold standard of where they want their program to be. The big difference is in the stature of the coach. It's also not always a bad thing, nor is it always a good thing. Just because someone comes from a certain coaching tree doesn't mean they are capable of resurrecting past glory.

The problem I see for the "Paterno People" or "Joebots" is there really isn't anybody on Paterno's tree that IMO would be a home-run.

http://coachingroots.com/football/coache...ching-tree

You're completely naive about Central Pennsylvania if you think what happens there goes on at most or even any other program. The magnitude of the cult of personality surrounding that man and the program reached levels unprecedented elsewhere in sports and can only find analogy in some of history's worst examples.

You are letting your hatred of Penn State/Paterno blind you to the reality that it indeed goes on elsewhere. Maybe not to the extreme, but it does go on. Whenever there is the least little adversity facing a program there is always a segment of every fanbase who wants to either bring back a coach who won while there or bring in someone who has ties to that era.

And I would say that as bad as the Penn State fans have been since Paterno was let go they pale in comparison to the level of idol worship that goes on in Alabama for Bear Bryant to this day.

(01-02-2014 01:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Bear (love him or hate him) left nothing but honor to the Alabama brand.

Hmmmm……

Count me as very skeptical of that claim. But I readily admit that nothing that is known to have occurred within the Bear's domain comes anywhere close to the Sandusky scenario. The only comparison I was seeking to draw is that in both instances, the personality of a single man so totally dominated the larger group around him that no one felt free to utter a critical or dissenting view. That will have a distorting effect on large organizations.

(01-02-2014 03:26 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  You're completely naive about Central Pennsylvania if you think what happens there goes on at most or even any other program. The magnitude of the cult of personality surrounding that man and the program reached levels unprecedented elsewhere in sports and can only find analogy in some of history's worst examples.

Emphasis added.

It was like that Alabama for about 30-40 years. The success of Saban is what finally broke the spell.

(01-02-2014 04:50 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-02-2014 03:26 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  You're completely naive about Central Pennsylvania if you think what happens there goes on at most or even any other program. The magnitude of the cult of personality surrounding that man and the program reached levels unprecedented elsewhere in sports and can only find analogy in some of history's worst examples.

Emphasis added.

It was like that Alabama for about 30-40 years. The success of Saban is what finally broke the spell.

Last time I checked Saban was coach and winning titles when some yokel poisoned a town's trees because someone put a Cam Newton jersey on Bear Bryant's statue.

(01-02-2014 04:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-02-2014 01:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Bear (love him or hate him) left nothing but honor to the Alabama brand.

Hmmmm……

Count me as very skeptical of that claim. But I readily admit that nothing that is known to have occurred within the Bear's domain comes anywhere close to the Sandusky scenario. The only comparison I was seeking to draw is that in both instances, the personality of a single man so totally dominated the larger group around him that no one felt free to utter a critical or dissenting view. That will have a distorting effect on large organizations.

I agree with your broader point, but to specifics, not many outside of the state have ever understood the political power gap within Alabama. The law school of prominence in the state belongs to Alabama. The vast majority of state legislators and senators are Alabama law graduates. They control appropriations. Bear's family wound up in quasi familial relationships with their governmental alumni. Even though for years Alabama was the second largest, and some of the time third largest state university within Alabama they received the lions share of appropriations. Bear, and now Saban, also utilize this to their recruiting and funding benefit. So the personality cult extends far beyond the university itself. Alabama football has advantages that no state should show toward 1 of several schools. Auburn is an entirely different animal. It wasn't until about 30 years ago that our Trustees were finally mostly Auburn folks (with political connections to be sure, but no longer Alabama graduates).

So to understand fully the grip of that power axis one must live it on a daily basis. In some ways an Auburn victory feels like a political revolution when it happens. It's like for that one year the small business people, farmers, timber men, and engineers have managed to scoop the crooked Alabama lawyers that run the rest of the state to their benefit. I may be exaggerating to make a point, but not by a great deal.

With Auburn's increased graduation rate exceeding that of Alabama that political power base is beginning to shift. If Auburn ever starts a law school things really could get chilly in Alabama between the two schools.