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Nothing shady going on here...
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
(12-23-2013 09:28 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  So are you going to address the OP, or just use misdirection? The link between these organizations and climate denial has been reported many times in the past. This guy's past is irrelevant to the discussion.

If you want to have a serious discussion about this topic, then try having a serious point to make rather than these vague inferences meant to imply guilt of something.

Let me try and be as clear as possible.

I don't buy into the 'man made climate chane' BS because the science is weak and the target constantly moves every time the facts get in the way of the hype.... but I am an intelligent and reasonable person and am MORE than willing to be convinced that I am wrong.

However...

As the proposed 'solution' to this 'made-up' problem is to spend trillions of dollars (or cause trillions of dollars of investment to be made worthless) on a solution that NOT ONE SINGLE scientist can say with any certainty will make any measurable difference to the supposed 'clear' problem... I find it completely rational, fair and completely above board that those who will be severely negatively impacted by the false propoganda (and global money grab) are going to great lengths to defeat it.

What I find shady is the lengths to which 'the other side' of this argument are willing to go to try and SHAME people into believing something they can't prove.

Serious question... Have you EVER heard of a clear problem (man made global warming) that called for a solution that was so simple (stop burning oil) that NOBODY could provide any evidennce of efficacy? What I mean is.... They should be able to say, if we do 'this', at a cost of 'this', then we will stop 'this' from happening.

They don't do that because they can't even prove that we could do anything about it if we HAD to.... so it is all merely a money grab.

THAT is what is shady.
12-25-2013 11:39 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
12-26-2013 01:07 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
(12-26-2013 01:07 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  174 Climate Skeptic Myths

03-lmfao leave it to umgrad to find the dumbest writers on the web, and start calling it science.

I hear the skeptical science group is going to burn witches this year, to try and stop extreme weather.
12-26-2013 08:29 AM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
How well was the 2013 Hurricane Season predicted?
12-26-2013 10:34 AM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
(12-26-2013 08:29 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(12-26-2013 01:07 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  174 Climate Skeptic Myths

03-lmfao leave it to umgrad to find the dumbest writers on the web, and start calling it science.

Again you are wrong. I've never called anything you've written "science".
12-26-2013 08:19 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
(12-26-2013 08:19 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  
(12-26-2013 08:29 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(12-26-2013 01:07 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  174 Climate Skeptic Myths

03-lmfao leave it to umgrad to find the dumbest writers on the web, and start calling it science.

Again you are wrong. I've never called anything you've written "science".

That's your problem. You are ignorant of every subject you post on. It's been proven over and over. I do scoff at u memphis now. It's clearly a diploma mill w/ no value.
12-26-2013 09:01 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
IM2001SAD's list is the typical means used by unintelligent or lying people to try and argue against intelligent and honest ones.

First, you start by defining what the other side says
Then you frame your answer in such a way as to imply something you aren't saying.

Simple examples, not meant to be inclusive or even represent the most significant ones...

Very few people, and almost nobody of any credibility, claims that man isn't PART of the environment... or that things like losing forests and pouring concrete and making styrofoam doesn't factor into 'climate'

'warmest decade on record' means the past 150 years or so. Of course, they take the exact opposite approach when comparing temperatures from thousands of years ago. That single calculation (those estimates are calculated, not observed) doesn't represent a decade

Generally speaking, the people against this shady science point out the following facts
1) Unless you plan on killing people or making everyone vegan, people and livestock are part of the equation. Every study I've read shows that the simple process of 'living' (a growing, meat eating population) contributes FAR more to greenhouse gasses than burning oil

2) The specificity of calculations required to PROVE these theories put forth by the left doesn't exist. We're talking fractions of degrees over hundreds and even thousands and tens of thousands of years. That based on calculations for 5 spots on the earth... we can 'prove' that it was 72.5 and not 74 degrees globally 10,000 years ago. What makes this TRULY laughable is that any time theo other side points out 5 spots where the earth is OBSERVED to be cooler, we are told that is weather, not climate.... but when you make calculations (not observations) about 5 spots from thousands of years ago, THAT is climate. Foolish. Just one of many instances where the science is not applied in a legitimate, balanced manner.... which is pretty much the definition of science, which proves the manipulation.

3)The numbers in and relative 'dirtiness' of places like CHina and India, which are still industrializing, not to mention most of Africa make efforts by industrialized nations to be cleaner a questionable endeavor. Wha I mean by that is that if we are 98% clean and they are 60% clean... it is FAR cheaper and more effective for them to get to 90% clean based on existing processes and technology that it is for us to get to 99% based on undiscovered breakthroughs. Of course, there is money for academia where most of these scientists 'work' in breakthroughs, but not in existing technology.

4) as unclear as the problem is, even if we accept the problem as a quantifiable fact... I've yet to see one single serious attempt to quantify the impact of any 'solutions'. It seems pretty clear to me that if we can predict (based on 'settled' science) that the earth's temperature will rise by 2 degrees and that will cause a 2 foot rise in water levels which will flood Manhattan and Amsterdam costing us tens of trillions of dollars.... we should be able to similarly predict that increasing GLOBAL fuel efficiency/reducing bad emissions from combustion engines by say 50% will completely counteract this effect. Now, with a target in mind (assuming such a number even exists)... we can set out to accomplish this goal through a variety of means....

but we don't. Instead, all of the energy is put into establishing the calamity.

Look... most of us, even the 'deniers' want to be good stewards of the earth. If spending a trillion dollars and getting rid of SUVs in exchange for smart cars can be shown to improve our lives, we are going to support it. Of course, you STILL have 'what the rest of the world' does, not to mention global population growth, deforestation and cattle farts to deal with.

The obvious evidence is that the third world is far more interested in 'reparations' from the first world than they are in cleaning up their own environment. The money they want will be used to attract new business/industry and not to clean up existing ones..... or to care for an increasing population rather than to stop population growth and deforestation

When I start seeing global warming proposals that talk about things like reducing cattle populations, people populations and ending urban sprawl, I'll know that is someone not in it just for the money. By that I mean, proposals to limit through taxes or legislation the consumption of meat... the size of a family or the footprint of a home (and the infrastructure to support it).
12-28-2013 01:29 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Nothing shady going on here...
(12-28-2013 01:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  IM2001SAD's list is the typical means used by unintelligent or lying people to try and argue against intelligent and honest ones.

First, you start by defining what the other side says
Then you frame your answer in such a way as to imply something you aren't saying.

Simple examples, not meant to be inclusive or even represent the most significant ones...

Very few people, and almost nobody of any credibility, claims that man isn't PART of the environment... or that things like losing forests and pouring concrete and making styrofoam doesn't factor into 'climate'

'warmest decade on record' means the past 150 years or so. Of course, they take the exact opposite approach when comparing temperatures from thousands of years ago. That single calculation (those estimates are calculated, not observed) doesn't represent a decade

Generally speaking, the people against this shady science point out the following facts
1) Unless you plan on killing people or making everyone vegan, people and livestock are part of the equation. Every study I've read shows that the simple process of 'living' (a growing, meat eating population) contributes FAR more to greenhouse gasses than burning oil

2) The specificity of calculations required to PROVE these theories put forth by the left doesn't exist. We're talking fractions of degrees over hundreds and even thousands and tens of thousands of years. That based on calculations for 5 spots on the earth... we can 'prove' that it was 72.5 and not 74 degrees globally 10,000 years ago. What makes this TRULY laughable is that any time theo other side points out 5 spots where the earth is OBSERVED to be cooler, we are told that is weather, not climate.... but when you make calculations (not observations) about 5 spots from thousands of years ago, THAT is climate. Foolish. Just one of many instances where the science is not applied in a legitimate, balanced manner.... which is pretty much the definition of science, which proves the manipulation.

3)The numbers in and relative 'dirtiness' of places like CHina and India, which are still industrializing, not to mention most of Africa make efforts by industrialized nations to be cleaner a questionable endeavor. Wha I mean by that is that if we are 98% clean and they are 60% clean... it is FAR cheaper and more effective for them to get to 90% clean based on existing processes and technology that it is for us to get to 99% based on undiscovered breakthroughs. Of course, there is money for academia where most of these scientists 'work' in breakthroughs, but not in existing technology.

4) as unclear as the problem is, even if we accept the problem as a quantifiable fact... I've yet to see one single serious attempt to quantify the impact of any 'solutions'. It seems pretty clear to me that if we can predict (based on 'settled' science) that the earth's temperature will rise by 2 degrees and that will cause a 2 foot rise in water levels which will flood Manhattan and Amsterdam costing us tens of trillions of dollars.... we should be able to similarly predict that increasing GLOBAL fuel efficiency/reducing bad emissions from combustion engines by say 50% will completely counteract this effect. Now, with a target in mind (assuming such a number even exists)... we can set out to accomplish this goal through a variety of means....

but we don't. Instead, all of the energy is put into establishing the calamity.

Look... most of us, even the 'deniers' want to be good stewards of the earth. If spending a trillion dollars and getting rid of SUVs in exchange for smart cars can be shown to improve our lives, we are going to support it. Of course, you STILL have 'what the rest of the world' does, not to mention global population growth, deforestation and cattle farts to deal with.

The obvious evidence is that the third world is far more interested in 'reparations' from the first world than they are in cleaning up their own environment. The money they want will be used to attract new business/industry and not to clean up existing ones..... or to care for an increasing population rather than to stop population growth and deforestation

When I start seeing global warming proposals that talk about things like reducing cattle populations, people populations and ending urban sprawl, I'll know that is someone not in it just for the money. By that I mean, proposals to limit through taxes or legislation the consumption of meat... the size of a family or the footprint of a home (and the infrastructure to support it).

Very eloquent and very true.

Sadly, the people you are arguing against don't have the mental capability to comprehend what you are saying.

Also, you touched upon one of the hidden reasons the left pushes this propaganda. Population control is a traditional pillar among leftists and far left societies. It's the same reason the left loves abortion.
12-28-2013 02:04 PM
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