I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage. The idiot DJ said he was "with those workers, b/c they get paid crap for a crappy job."
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage. The idiot DJ said he was "with those workers, b/c they get paid crap for a crappy job."
Nuts.
Not really. Many willfully ignore economic reality when it come to their particular circumstance, enabling them to desire more money for less work. Damn the consequences, that's not MY problem.
I know many lament the decline of entrepreneurs in the U.S., but with a citizenry that is purposefully ignorant of what money is, how capital works and the benefits of savings, a lack of start-ups is not difficult to understand.
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage.
That day would be a great day to go eat at the closest fast food joint with strikers.
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage. The idiot DJ said he was "with those workers, b/c they get paid crap for a crappy job."
Nuts.
Not really. Many willfully ignore economic reality when it come to their particular circumstance, enabling them to desire more money for less work. Damn the consequences, that's not MY problem.
I know many lament the decline of entrepreneurs in the U.S., but with a citizenry that is purposefully ignorant of what money is, how capital works and the benefits of savings, a lack of start-ups is not difficult to understand.
The Dems have burdened small, start-up businesses with hundreds of thousands of regulations. As a result, it's easier to start a business in Europe than here.
Congratulations libs: you've killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage.
That day would be a great day to go eat at the closest fast food joint with strikers.
I think that's today and they are supposed to be striking locally. Oh well, I bet they expect to be paid while striking as well.
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage. The idiot DJ said he was "with those workers, b/c they get paid crap for a crappy job."
Nuts.
Not really. Many willfully ignore economic reality when it come to their particular circumstance, enabling them to desire more money for less work. Damn the consequences, that's not MY problem.
I know many lament the decline of entrepreneurs in the U.S., but with a citizenry that is purposefully ignorant of what money is, how capital works and the benefits of savings, a lack of start-ups is not difficult to understand.
The Dems have burdened small, start-up businesses with hundreds of thousands of regulations. As a result, it's easier to start a business in Europe than here.
Congratulations libs: you've killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Atlas is shrugging.
I'm not willing to lay those regulations at the feet of any one party. They are the result of gov't expansion, which the GOP has definitely contributed to. Those regulations aren't passive things. They are enforced by gov't functionaries whom have a vested interest to insure their position still exist.
Its why talk about shrinking the gov't it so hard. Because you are ultimately trying to eliminate jobs. People who signed up for said jobs b/c of the protection it provides or how it differentiates themselves for other private employees.
An overnight stock clerk and a Social Worker probably make the same thing. But that social worker went to college and that job title and the power provided by gov't allows that person to feel 'superior' the stock clerk.
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage. The idiot DJ said he was "with those workers, b/c they get paid crap for a crappy job."
Nuts.
Not really. Many willfully ignore economic reality when it come to their particular circumstance, enabling them to desire more money for less work. Damn the consequences, that's not MY problem.
I know many lament the decline of entrepreneurs in the U.S., but with a citizenry that is purposefully ignorant of what money is, how capital works and the benefits of savings, a lack of start-ups is not difficult to understand.
The Dems have burdened small, start-up businesses with hundreds of thousands of regulations. As a result, it's easier to start a business in Europe than here.
Congratulations libs: you've killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Atlas is shrugging.
I'm not willing to lay those regulations at the feet of any one party. They are the result of gov't expansion, which the GOP has definitely contributed to. Those regulations aren't passive things. They are enforced by gov't functionaries whom have a vested interest to insure their position still exist.
Its why talk about shrinking the gov't it so hard. Because you are ultimately trying to eliminate jobs. People who signed up for said jobs b/c of the protection it provides or how it differentiates themselves for other private employees.
An overnight stock clerk and a Social Worker probably make the same thing. But that social worker went to college and that job title and the power provided by gov't allows that person to feel 'superior' the stock clerk.
Good post.
I just feel that there needs to be a redress economically.
The market is not some divine thing that makes and creates values for certain things. We place value on certain things and the market reinforces those. A good example is sports, which is of zero productive value itself, yet the market puts a lot of cash into it. Think about it, the act of cooking fries or stocking shelves is more beneficial to the economy than swinging a bat or running a ball. We, the folks, have decided otherwise.
It's about time that we, the folks, started to put value where value deserves to be, in work, wherever that may be.
Now you get into the whole, moral collapse aspect and I think we all know where that ends up.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 11:26 AM by HeartOfDixie.)
You know McDonald's is working on an automated kitchen. Payment via Kiosk with an "MCard" that you load via Smart Phone. Maybe four people running the kitchen.
(12-05-2013 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: I just feel that there needs to be a redress economically.
The market is not some divine thing that makes and creates values for certain things. We place value on certain things and the market reinforces those. A good example is sports, which is of zero productive value itself, yet the market puts a lot of cash into it. Think about it, the act of cooking fries or stocking shelves is more beneficial to the economy than swinging a bat or running a ball. We, the folks, have decided otherwise.
It's about time that we, the folks, started to put value where value deserves to be, in work, wherever that may be.
Now you get into the whole, moral collapse aspect and I think we all know where that ends up.
If people are willing to pay to watch sports, buy their collectables, pony up to see the games in person or subscribe to pay TV to watch their favorite team play, that is a decision that those folks have made. While it may rankle people that sports stars or actors get paid $millions, while some teacher or firefighter doesn't, the market will decide. No business is going to pay more than the market will bear unless they want to go out of business.
I understand your angst about value where it 'deserves to be' but that is not the way things work. If we want to pay people what their labor is worth, then many fields and/or industries need to ditch collective bargaining, where the worst gets paid the same as the best. If that teacher is really one of the best out there and could negotiate his/her own salary, I'm sure the compensation might be better.
As to your comment on moral collapse, is this a reference to your point from earlier in the thread? If not, what are you referring to?
(12-05-2013 04:54 PM)WMD Owl Wrote: You know McDonald's is working on an automated kitchen. Payment via Kiosk with an "MCard" that you load via Smart Phone. Maybe four people running the kitchen.
I can hardly wait for the day when the order I get is actually right. They are over paid now when they can't get your order right or count change.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 05:13 PM by Paul M.)
(12-05-2013 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: Think about it, the act of cooking fries or stocking shelves is more beneficial to the economy than swinging a bat or running a ball.
As a whole, maybe. As an individual, nope. Professional sports is an economic juggernaut, especially per player. Lots of big houses, fancy cars, expensive meals and payroll taxes.
People can cook their own fries. There's a price most are willing to pay for the convenience of having someone else cook them. I'd pay some kid 10 bucks to mow my yard but I'd never pay some man 40.
(12-05-2013 08:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote: I heard on the radio that there is supposed to be a 100-city strike, to draw attention to the desire for a $15/hr minimum wage. The idiot DJ said he was "with those workers, b/c they get paid crap for a crappy job."
Nuts.
Not really. Many willfully ignore economic reality when it come to their particular circumstance, enabling them to desire more money for less work. Damn the consequences, that's not MY problem.
I know many lament the decline of entrepreneurs in the U.S., but with a citizenry that is purposefully ignorant of what money is, how capital works and the benefits of savings, a lack of start-ups is not difficult to understand.
The Dems have burdened small, start-up businesses with hundreds of thousands of regulations. As a result, it's easier to start a business in Europe than here.
Congratulations libs: you've killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Atlas is shrugging.
I'm not willing to lay those regulations at the feet of any one party. They are the result of gov't expansion, which the GOP has definitely contributed to. Those regulations aren't passive things. They are enforced by gov't functionaries whom have a vested interest to insure their position still exist.
Its why talk about shrinking the gov't it so hard. Because you are ultimately trying to eliminate jobs. People who signed up for said jobs b/c of the protection it provides or how it differentiates themselves for other private employees.
An overnight stock clerk and a Social Worker probably make the same thing. But that social worker went to college and that job title and the power provided by gov't allows that person to feel 'superior' the stock clerk.
Plus the stock clerk may actually do something useful.
(12-05-2013 05:23 PM)Paul M Wrote: People can cook their own fries. There's a price most are willing to pay for the convenience of having someone else cook them. I'd pay some kid 10 bucks to mow my yard but I'd never pay some man 40.
10 bucks? I would have have laughed in your face when I was mowing yards as a kid...20 or it's not worth my time...want never to rake? 5 bucks a bag.
(12-05-2013 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: Think about it, the act of cooking fries or stocking shelves is more beneficial to the economy than swinging a bat or running a ball.
As a whole, maybe. As an individual, nope. Professional sports is an economic juggernaut, especially per player. Lots of big houses, fancy cars, expensive meals and payroll taxes.
Which reinforces my point that the "market price" is not associated with a divine system that regulates prices. The "market price" is the aggregate effect of people choosing to place value in something.
If society chose to place value in the working poor, and the things, they do society as a whole would benefit.
It means that the whole shrug your, no you specifically, shoulders and say "that's what the market pays" as a way of ignoring people is a fallacy.
(12-05-2013 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: I just feel that there needs to be a redress economically.
The market is not some divine thing that makes and creates values for certain things. We place value on certain things and the market reinforces those. A good example is sports, which is of zero productive value itself, yet the market puts a lot of cash into it. Think about it, the act of cooking fries or stocking shelves is more beneficial to the economy than swinging a bat or running a ball. We, the folks, have decided otherwise.
It's about time that we, the folks, started to put value where value deserves to be, in work, wherever that may be.
Now you get into the whole, moral collapse aspect and I think we all know where that ends up.
If people are willing to pay to watch sports, buy their collectables, pony up to see the games in person or subscribe to pay TV to watch their favorite team play, that is a decision that those folks have made. While it may rankle people that sports stars or actors get paid $millions, while some teacher or firefighter doesn't, the market will decide. No business is going to pay more than the market will bear unless they want to go out of business.
I understand your angst about value where it 'deserves to be' but that is not the way things work. If we want to pay people what their labor is worth, then many fields and/or industries need to ditch collective bargaining, where the worst gets paid the same as the best. If that teacher is really one of the best out there and could negotiate his/her own salary, I'm sure the compensation might be better.
As to your comment on moral collapse, is this a reference to your point from earlier in the thread? If not, what are you referring to?
You proved my point right there. Thanks.
The "market price" is about choice.
So, you can't ignore the working poor and use the "market price" as a backstop for doing so. Why? Because in reality all the "market price" is really is your choice not to place in value in the work those people do. That makes it a moral issue on a societal level.
