(11-27-2013 11:28 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:02 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 10:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The new culture of guilty until proven innocent reminds me of Nazis and Puritans.

In a democracy, "innocent until proven guilty" applies in a judicial proceeding, nowhere else. And whether Winston gets Heisman votes or plays football for FSU ain't a court proceeding. I think Winston should be suspended from the FSU football team pending the outcome of this investigation, and if I were a Heisman voter I wouldn't put him on my ballot. And I'd only change those views if the State's Attorney says that the evidence exonerates him, not merely that they don't think they can win a court conviction.

But that's a far cry from thinking he should be put in jail until he's had a fair trial, which of course presupposes he's been charged.

It can't be that way Quo or people would raise frivolous claims all the time. You could be ruining his life for no reason and taking away dreams/ambitions for no reason.

Yes, but on the other hand we could be letting him off scot-free despite raping someone.

That's the dilemma here. So no, don't ruin his life - which would happen if he were put in jail - unless he's convicted. But Heisman voting and BCS title game participation? Sacrifice those. If he's exonerated 3 months from now, he can play next year with no taint and then make millions in the NFL. His life will be FAR from ruined, he'll be rich, famous, and a martyr to boot.

Rape charges aren't generally frivolous. I'm betting you've never been accused of rape and you don't know 1 guy in 100 who has. They are an awful lot of trouble to go through for the girl. Enough smoke here to warrant those outcomes, unless the State's Attorney says otherwise.

That's why you have to let this thing play out since we don't know what really happened. If the schools had any inclination that he's guilty, they'd probably sit him down, but that's not where we are.

As for the rape charges, you must not remember the Duke lacrosse case. Since then I've been more skeptical until there's more data. Yes there's a little smoke, but a lot of things just don't make sense and makes the complaint look bad. I almost feel like they are setting this case up for a civil suit since criminal charges may not happen.

Bingo. Folks like this guy you are responding to, don't like to admit that folks will do this kind of thing for a buck. They want to think that if a girl brings up a rape case that there must of been rape and that the dude is automatically guilty. Nevermind how long the case has been just sitting there with no evidence to go forward with. Nevermind the girl and media have brought this up again just when it looks like Winston is probably going to win the Heisman. Yeah, none of that matters to folks like him. He thinks he is making some kind of honorable stand in her favor or something.

(11-27-2013 09:21 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:04 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:50 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I agree with you about folks already condemning Winston. I am definitely on your side of the fence in that argument. The timing of it all to me just smacks of opportunism.

I think the folks at Florida are more likely to be behind it. They are the ones with actual connections within the State in order to be able to cause what was pretty much a closed case to be reopened. Not only is Florida looking like they are going to get demolished by Florida State, if FSU wins the National Championship then that will be a major reversal within the State in terms of future projections of success.

Is Urban God? Does he have access to all of the information in the world? Try to be a little bit more imaginative because it sounds like you just want to take a shot at him without really coming up with any possible details as to how he would have orchestrated all of this.

I already listed two much more likely theories of the Heisman Culture not liking the trend that is happening or the fact that the SEC as a whole does not want to see their streak end and Florida is in a position to help in that regard.

A rational person would simply say its the media going after celebrities like it always does. Why else would they cover Zimmerman getting a speeding ticket?

No, someone can be quite rational and still look into possibilities. Simple minded folks think that the explanation is always simple. Many times it is a simple explanation but if you think more corrupt motives are simply not possible then it is you that I would say simply is not all that rational considering ALL that has come to light about our society in the past decade or so.

Occam's razor.

If you think more corrupt motives are more likely, you are simply paranoid. You should be a politican in DC. More corrupt motives are certainly possible. But looking for corrupt motivations in something very normal is not rational. Celebreties get every stupid thing they do scrutinized. Winston has become a celebrity. Aaron Murray is a celebrity in Georgia. Do you want to see his torn ACL during surgery? Do you want to see them shave his legs before surgery? Its out there. If Manziel is obnoxious in a frat party in Austin, its out there. Miley Cyrus? Brittany Spears? If Winston does something stupid, it will be reported. If Winston's critical offensive guard does something stupid, no one will ever know, as long as its not too stupid.

I didn't say more likely, I said possible. Stop making a straw man argument for yourself.

Yes looking at other possibilities is absolutely rational so that should something like that ever actually happen, it is not as easy to get away with it. That is why actual detectives actually investigate actual conspiracies.

All the rest of your point is all ok but it doesn't really negate what I am saying, it is just more filler because now you want to win an argument that was silly to start in the beginning. In the end you said in your point the exact same thing as what I have been saying except you added another level of straw man to it so that you could "win".

Nice try.

Lets be clear. Anyone accusing Urban Meyer of dredging this stuff up is being totally ridiculous.

I'm not going to judge Winston when he hasn't even been charged with anything. But I will judge people throwing out claims that this is an Urban Meyer conspiracy. Guilty of acting like idiots on this particular matter.

Is it possible-yes. Its also possible that Richard Nixon arranged the assassination of JFK. Its also possible you aren't a Big 10 fan and are just posing. But anyone suggesting those things is acting like an idiot.

(11-28-2013 12:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 09:21 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:04 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  A rational person would simply say its the media going after celebrities like it always does. Why else would they cover Zimmerman getting a speeding ticket?

No, someone can be quite rational and still look into possibilities. Simple minded folks think that the explanation is always simple. Many times it is a simple explanation but if you think more corrupt motives are simply not possible then it is you that I would say simply is not all that rational considering ALL that has come to light about our society in the past decade or so.

Occam's razor.

If you think more corrupt motives are more likely, you are simply paranoid. You should be a politican in DC. More corrupt motives are certainly possible. But looking for corrupt motivations in something very normal is not rational. Celebreties get every stupid thing they do scrutinized. Winston has become a celebrity. Aaron Murray is a celebrity in Georgia. Do you want to see his torn ACL during surgery? Do you want to see them shave his legs before surgery? Its out there. If Manziel is obnoxious in a frat party in Austin, its out there. Miley Cyrus? Brittany Spears? If Winston does something stupid, it will be reported. If Winston's critical offensive guard does something stupid, no one will ever know, as long as its not too stupid.

I didn't say more likely, I said possible. Stop making a straw man argument for yourself.

Yes looking at other possibilities is absolutely rational so that should something like that ever actually happen, it is not as easy to get away with it. That is why actual detectives actually investigate actual conspiracies.

All the rest of your point is all ok but it doesn't really negate what I am saying, it is just more filler because now you want to win an argument that was silly to start in the beginning. In the end you said in your point the exact same thing as what I have been saying except you added another level of straw man to it so that you could "win".

Nice try.

Lets be clear. Anyone accusing Urban Meyer of dredging this stuff up is being totally ridiculous.

I'm not going to judge Winston when he hasn't even been charged with anything. But I will judge people throwing out claims that this is an Urban Meyer conspiracy. Guilty of acting like idiots on this particular matter.

Is it possible-yes. Its also possible that Richard Nixon arranged the assassination of JFK. Its also possible you aren't a Big 10 fan and are just posing. But anyone suggesting those things is acting like an idiot.

You're taking this just a bit too seriously. I said before Urban Meyer has a history of telling on programs so I wouldn't put it past him. It's just a theory dude. Nothing more.

What Florida State should do ultimately depends on what they think happened. If the leaders believe the evidence is enough to be fairly sure it was rape, than regardless of whether it is enough for a court or not, they should suspend him. If they aren't sure one way or the other or don't believe so though, then it would be wrong to suspend.

I'm not judging on this either way because I don't think I know enough and know there are both examples of innocent people getting hurt badly by false claims and people who have done terrible things and get away with it with protection. Either is possible and until I've read more/more is out there, I don't think it's right to suppose either.

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:47 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 04:58 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Only clown I'm seeing is the OP.

The amount of Winston apologists around here is astonishing.

Agree.......but it is our culture today.... Star athletes can do no wrong.
I am amazed at the amount of cover up by officals in a position of authority

I was sickened by Winston's attorney yet again today. This Joker actually met with the State's attorney to complain that if they didn't make a decision on whether to charge soon, it could impact Winston's Heisman voting.

Can you believe that? A clown attorney trying to rush an investigation and determination of very serious charges to help out with Heisman voting?

The world is going made ...

They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:47 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 04:58 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Only clown I'm seeing is the OP.

The amount of Winston apologists around here is astonishing.

Agree.......but it is our culture today.... Star athletes can do no wrong.
I am amazed at the amount of cover up by officals in a position of authority

I was sickened by Winston's attorney yet again today. This Joker actually met with the State's attorney to complain that if they didn't make a decision on whether to charge soon, it could impact Winston's Heisman voting.

Can you believe that? A clown attorney trying to rush an investigation and determination of very serious charges to help out with Heisman voting?

The world is going made ...

They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

It IS very fishy. The world isn't going mad, you are just one of those gullible many that are easily led around by your emotions.

Oh my. I can't disagree with that.

(11-28-2013 01:04 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  What Florida State should do ultimately depends on what they think happened.

I believe that's what they're doing. Also, the alleged victim has now been interviewed by the State Attorney's office. Two eyewitness affidavits have been provided. DNA and toxicology reports have been handed over. The results of the "rape kit" are known.

And no charges...

(11-28-2013 01:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:47 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The amount of Winston apologists around here is astonishing.

Agree.......but it is our culture today.... Star athletes can do no wrong.
I am amazed at the amount of cover up by officals in a position of authority

I was sickened by Winston's attorney yet again today. This Joker actually met with the State's attorney to complain that if they didn't make a decision on whether to charge soon, it could impact Winston's Heisman voting.

Can you believe that? A clown attorney trying to rush an investigation and determination of very serious charges to help out with Heisman voting?

The world is going made ...

They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 05:47 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Agree.......but it is our culture today.... Star athletes can do no wrong.
I am amazed at the amount of cover up by officals in a position of authority

I was sickened by Winston's attorney yet again today. This Joker actually met with the State's attorney to complain that if they didn't make a decision on whether to charge soon, it could impact Winston's Heisman voting.

Can you believe that? A clown attorney trying to rush an investigation and determination of very serious charges to help out with Heisman voting?

The world is going made ...

They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I was sickened by Winston's attorney yet again today. This Joker actually met with the State's attorney to complain that if they didn't make a decision on whether to charge soon, it could impact Winston's Heisman voting.

Can you believe that? A clown attorney trying to rush an investigation and determination of very serious charges to help out with Heisman voting?

The world is going made ...

They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

I haven't seen anything saying she ever dropped the charges. The DAs office just wasn't moving along very fast was the implication from the things I have read.

I don't know who brought this into the public, but it would make sense for her, now that he is a celebrity, to use publicity to have the DAs office make this a higher priority.

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I was sickened by Winston's attorney yet again today. This Joker actually met with the State's attorney to complain that if they didn't make a decision on whether to charge soon, it could impact Winston's Heisman voting.

Can you believe that? A clown attorney trying to rush an investigation and determination of very serious charges to help out with Heisman voting?

The world is going made ...

They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

In the end this is HE SAID-SHE SAID... unless there is physical evidence like tears or bruises, etc. This all reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. How did that turn out?

(11-28-2013 12:45 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 12:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 09:21 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:04 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, someone can be quite rational and still look into possibilities. Simple minded folks think that the explanation is always simple. Many times it is a simple explanation but if you think more corrupt motives are simply not possible then it is you that I would say simply is not all that rational considering ALL that has come to light about our society in the past decade or so.

Occam's razor.

If you think more corrupt motives are more likely, you are simply paranoid. You should be a politican in DC. More corrupt motives are certainly possible. But looking for corrupt motivations in something very normal is not rational. Celebreties get every stupid thing they do scrutinized. Winston has become a celebrity. Aaron Murray is a celebrity in Georgia. Do you want to see his torn ACL during surgery? Do you want to see them shave his legs before surgery? Its out there. If Manziel is obnoxious in a frat party in Austin, its out there. Miley Cyrus? Brittany Spears? If Winston does something stupid, it will be reported. If Winston's critical offensive guard does something stupid, no one will ever know, as long as its not too stupid.

I didn't say more likely, I said possible. Stop making a straw man argument for yourself.

Yes looking at other possibilities is absolutely rational so that should something like that ever actually happen, it is not as easy to get away with it. That is why actual detectives actually investigate actual conspiracies.

All the rest of your point is all ok but it doesn't really negate what I am saying, it is just more filler because now you want to win an argument that was silly to start in the beginning. In the end you said in your point the exact same thing as what I have been saying except you added another level of straw man to it so that you could "win".

Nice try.

Lets be clear. Anyone accusing Urban Meyer of dredging this stuff up is being totally ridiculous.

I'm not going to judge Winston when he hasn't even been charged with anything. But I will judge people throwing out claims that this is an Urban Meyer conspiracy. Guilty of acting like idiots on this particular matter.

Is it possible-yes. Its also possible that Richard Nixon arranged the assassination of JFK. Its also possible you aren't a Big 10 fan and are just posing. But anyone suggesting those things is acting like an idiot.

You're taking this just a bit too seriously. I said before Urban Meyer has a history of telling on programs so I wouldn't put it past him. It's just a theory dude. Nothing more.

Rape is a bit serious. Remains to be seen whether there is anything there. But slandering someone else with something you make up out of thin air to defend Winston is pretty ridiculous.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/26/37...state.html

Quote:Why did Winston’s lawyer think the case was dropped while the police say it was never closed, only rendered inactive in February when the alleged victim said she no longer wanted to pursue prosecution?

So it was rendered inactive and not closed. The point is the same. The girl said she didn't want to pursue prosecution.

Quote:Adding to the problematic nature, at one point she said she did not want to prosecute.

“And that was back when he was not ‘Famous Jameis,’” McGee said

McGee is the State's Attorney.

The point is she was deterred from this path before, the evidence hasn't changed. There isn't enough to prosecute. His DNA found but no evidence of forced entry or brutality. The burden of proof will be too much.

This is all a set up for money because now he is a much bigger deal than he was at the time when he was just an obscure freshman new on campus. My opinion only of course but the ONLY thing that has changed is Winston's stature and success.

(11-28-2013 11:49 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 11:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  They have had over a year to do something with this case. Him winning or not winning the Heisman is actually a very big deal in his life and if they don't have the evidence to bring forth charges then what the hell are they waiting for?

The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

In the end this is HE SAID-SHE SAID... unless there is physical evidence like tears or bruises, etc. This all reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. How did that turn out?

The evidence even seems to prove this was just consensual sex. This appears more likely to be an attempt to get some money out of the situation. Whether she is given some hush hush money or later on they attempt a civil suit which once again...would be an attempt to reach a settlement before going to court.

(11-28-2013 11:53 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 12:45 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 12:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 09:21 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  Occam's razor.

If you think more corrupt motives are more likely, you are simply paranoid. You should be a politican in DC. More corrupt motives are certainly possible. But looking for corrupt motivations in something very normal is not rational. Celebreties get every stupid thing they do scrutinized. Winston has become a celebrity. Aaron Murray is a celebrity in Georgia. Do you want to see his torn ACL during surgery? Do you want to see them shave his legs before surgery? Its out there. If Manziel is obnoxious in a frat party in Austin, its out there. Miley Cyrus? Brittany Spears? If Winston does something stupid, it will be reported. If Winston's critical offensive guard does something stupid, no one will ever know, as long as its not too stupid.

I didn't say more likely, I said possible. Stop making a straw man argument for yourself.

Yes looking at other possibilities is absolutely rational so that should something like that ever actually happen, it is not as easy to get away with it. That is why actual detectives actually investigate actual conspiracies.

All the rest of your point is all ok but it doesn't really negate what I am saying, it is just more filler because now you want to win an argument that was silly to start in the beginning. In the end you said in your point the exact same thing as what I have been saying except you added another level of straw man to it so that you could "win".

Nice try.

Lets be clear. Anyone accusing Urban Meyer of dredging this stuff up is being totally ridiculous.

I'm not going to judge Winston when he hasn't even been charged with anything. But I will judge people throwing out claims that this is an Urban Meyer conspiracy. Guilty of acting like idiots on this particular matter.

Is it possible-yes. Its also possible that Richard Nixon arranged the assassination of JFK. Its also possible you aren't a Big 10 fan and are just posing. But anyone suggesting those things is acting like an idiot.

You're taking this just a bit too seriously. I said before Urban Meyer has a history of telling on programs so I wouldn't put it past him. It's just a theory dude. Nothing more.

Rape is a bit serious. Remains to be seen whether there is anything there. But slandering someone else with something you make up out of thin air to defend Winston is pretty ridiculous.

I didn't slander anyone. There's a difference between me broadcasting to the world Urban Meyer did it vs. a conspiracy theory. I just pointed out Meyer has told on programs in the past and I wouldn't put it past him. I said it. It's over. Let's move on.

(11-28-2013 11:57 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:49 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The DA says they are still evaluating the evidence. What is so hard about that for you to understand?

If you think it appropriate for an attorney to complain about the pace of an investigation of a very serious crime in order to protect Heisman Trophy chances, you have one very warped set of values.

They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

In the end this is HE SAID-SHE SAID... unless there is physical evidence like tears or bruises, etc. This all reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. How did that turn out?

The evidence even seems to prove this was just consensual sex. This appears more likely to be an attempt to get some money out of the situation. Whether she is given some hush hush money or later on they attempt a civil suit which once again...would be an attempt to reach a settlement before going to court.

Before coming to conclusions you should read this piece. From Slate I figured it would be pretty slanted against Winston, but it was actually pretty balanced.
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/jur...state.html

(11-28-2013 05:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:57 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:49 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

In the end this is HE SAID-SHE SAID... unless there is physical evidence like tears or bruises, etc. This all reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. How did that turn out?

The evidence even seems to prove this was just consensual sex. This appears more likely to be an attempt to get some money out of the situation. Whether she is given some hush hush money or later on they attempt a civil suit which once again...would be an attempt to reach a settlement before going to court.

Before coming to conclusions you should read this piece. From Slate I figured it would be pretty slanted against Winston, but it was actually pretty balanced.
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/jur...state.html

If I could give you more rep points for this find I would. It is an A+ find for the purposes of discussion in this thread. Kudos!

(11-28-2013 05:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:57 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:49 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 08:54 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  They already had a chance to do this before. The supposed victim DROPPED the charges. She brought it back up as he is now at the head of the line for the Heisman. If you think that status of his had nothing to do with her deciding to press charges again then it is you that has the warped sense of rationality.

Yes I do think it is appropriate for an attorney representing Mr. Winston to try and push the case in order to protect his client's best interests. You really can't be this idealistic, can you? Is this your troll form?

First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

In the end this is HE SAID-SHE SAID... unless there is physical evidence like tears or bruises, etc. This all reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. How did that turn out?

The evidence even seems to prove this was just consensual sex. This appears more likely to be an attempt to get some money out of the situation. Whether she is given some hush hush money or later on they attempt a civil suit which once again...would be an attempt to reach a settlement before going to court.

Before coming to conclusions you should read this piece. From Slate I figured it would be pretty slanted against Winston, but it was actually pretty balanced.
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/jur...state.html

The biggest issue I have with this article is in the following excerpt:

"The victim says that at first her alleged assailant was “unknown” to her and that she figured out it was Winston in early January. At that point, she and her family started worrying about the ramifications of accusing an FSU player, one with the potential to lead his team to a national championship. They asked a lawyer who was a friend of the family to talk to the police on the victim’s behalf."

One with the potential to lead his team to the national championship??? That was before the 2013 season started. FSU wasn't even preseason top 10. Winston wasn't named the starter of the football team until August. It's almost like people are trying to write a historical event using today's scenarios.

(11-28-2013 10:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 05:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:57 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:49 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  First, when did the victim DROP the charges? And when did she "bring it back up"? It was brought back up by a reporter for the St Pete Times and by TMZ. Good Lord!

Second, forgive me: If we assume the attorney is a puppet merely doing the bidding of Winston (highly questionable, but if), then he is indeed just doing his job.

But then that means it is Winston who should be shamed for having the gall and chutzpah to complain about the pace of a very serious criminal investigation so as to enhance his, by comparison, ridiculously petty "Heisman Trophy chances".

In the end this is HE SAID-SHE SAID... unless there is physical evidence like tears or bruises, etc. This all reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. How did that turn out?

The evidence even seems to prove this was just consensual sex. This appears more likely to be an attempt to get some money out of the situation. Whether she is given some hush hush money or later on they attempt a civil suit which once again...would be an attempt to reach a settlement before going to court.

Before coming to conclusions you should read this piece. From Slate I figured it would be pretty slanted against Winston, but it was actually pretty balanced.
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/jur...state.html

The biggest issue I have with this article is in the following excerpt:

"The victim says that at first her alleged assailant was “unknown” to her and that she figured out it was Winston in early January. At that point, she and her family started worrying about the ramifications of accusing an FSU player, one with the potential to lead his team to a national championship. They asked a lawyer who was a friend of the family to talk to the police on the victim’s behalf."

One with the potential to lead his team to the national championship??? That was before the 2013 season started. FSU wasn't even preseason top 10. Winston wasn't named the starter of the football team until August. It's almost like people are trying to write a historical event using today's scenarios.

I saw that as well. I don't think the Slate author is a big football fan. But she was fair in saying:
"Whether schools should punish athletes who have been accused but not convicted—or in Winston’s case, even charged—is a hard call"

(11-29-2013 12:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  I saw that as well. I don't think the Slate author is a big football fan. But she was fair in saying:
"Whether schools should punish athletes who have been accused but not convicted—or in Winston’s case, even charged—is a hard call"

I don't think it's fair.