(08-13-2021 03:03 PM)snowtiger Wrote: [ -> ]Restaurants and bars have rights. Some of them want only the vaccinated to enter because they are tired of closing and having all of their employees get tested and cleared every time one of their employees gets covid.
Next door to my store is a restaurant. They have been closed for 4 days now because too many employees have covid. They can't even staff the place and this is the third or fourth time in the last three months.
Here in the northern cali boondocks, most people won't wear masks even if a sign is posted on the door requiring masks for entry lol. They feel that, as Americans, they have the right to enter any way they choose. F the rights of the store owner. lol They come in just to yell.
those kind of folks are not exercising their rights as Americans. They are just asssholes...pure and simple
Just had two fully vaccinated family test positive for covid. The vaccine doesn't work and you are at risk for long term side effects. If you're not taking health seriously from natural stand point then you will most like be a victim of the virus regardless if you took the shot or not
I found another person that doesn't understand 95% effectiveness means vaccinated people still get it.
If vaccinated people can still get it, why would we force millions of people with natural antibodies to take the vax?
That is not science.
Your if/then is waaaaay off. ONCE AGAIN, 95% is not 100%. No one I've seen on here except for anti-vaxxers have ever claimed the vaccine was supposed to be 100% effective.
(08-13-2021 03:03 PM)snowtiger Wrote: [ -> ]Restaurants and bars have rights. Some of them want only the vaccinated to enter because they are tired of closing and having all of their employees get tested and cleared every time one of their employees gets covid.
Next door to my store is a restaurant. They have been closed for 4 days now because too many employees have covid. They can't even staff the place and this is the third or fourth time in the last three months.
Here in the northern cali boondocks, most people won't wear masks even if a sign is posted on the door requiring masks for entry lol. They feel that, as Americans, they have the right to enter any way they choose. F the rights of the store owner. lol They come in just to yell.
those kind of folks are not exercising their rights as Americans. They are just asssholes...pure and simple
Just had two fully vaccinated family test positive for covid. The vaccine doesn't work and you are at risk for long term side effects. If you're not taking health seriously from natural stand point then you will most like be a victim of the virus regardless if you took the shot or not
true. My friend's father (64 years of age) did the full two shots a couple months back --- so he and his wife went travelling around this state eating in restaurants etc
( maskless)
(08-13-2021 03:03 PM)snowtiger Wrote: [ -> ]Restaurants and bars have rights. Some of them want only the vaccinated to enter because they are tired of closing and having all of their employees get tested and cleared every time one of their employees gets covid.
Next door to my store is a restaurant. They have been closed for 4 days now because too many employees have covid. They can't even staff the place and this is the third or fourth time in the last three months.
Here in the northern cali boondocks, most people won't wear masks even if a sign is posted on the door requiring masks for entry lol. They feel that, as Americans, they have the right to enter any way they choose. F the rights of the store owner. lol They come in just to yell.
those kind of folks are not exercising their rights as Americans. They are just asssholes...pure and simple
Just had two fully vaccinated family test positive for covid. The vaccine doesn't work and you are at risk for long term side effects. If you're not taking health seriously from natural stand point then you will most like be a victim of the virus regardless if you took the shot or not
I found another person that doesn't understand 95% effectiveness means vaccinated people still get it.
If vaccinated people can still get it, why would we force millions of people with natural antibodies to take the vax?
That is not science.
Your if/then is waaaaay off. ONCE AGAIN, 95% is not 100%. No one I've seen on here except for anti-vaxxers have ever claimed the vaccine was supposed to be 100% effective.
That is not what I said or what asked you. I asked a very specific and direct question.
Why does a person who already has the antibodoes need a vax? How can it be legal to force such a person to get a vax? That is not science, that is anti-science.
(08-13-2021 03:32 PM)Crazier Wrote: [ -> ]Just had two fully vaccinated family test positive for covid. The vaccine doesn't work and you are at risk for long term side effects. If you're not taking health seriously from natural stand point then you will most like be a victim of the virus regardless if you took the shot or not
I found another person that doesn't understand 95% effectiveness means vaccinated people still get it.
If vaccinated people can still get it, why would we force millions of people with natural antibodies to take the vax?
That is not science.
Your if/then is waaaaay off. ONCE AGAIN, 95% is not 100%. No one I've seen on here except for anti-vaxxers have ever claimed the vaccine was supposed to be 100% effective.
That is not what I said or what asked you. I asked a very specific and direct question.
Your question implies that because there is a slight possibility for a vaccinated person to get it, then we SHOULDN'T encourage people to get the vaccines. That's false, and any doctor worth their salt will tell you that the vaccine provides better protection than getting it naturally. That's why my parents' doctor told them to get the vaccine even though they had COVID last year.
(08-13-2021 03:03 PM)snowtiger Wrote: [ -> ]Restaurants and bars have rights. Some of them want only the vaccinated to enter because they are tired of closing and having all of their employees get tested and cleared every time one of their employees gets covid.
Next door to my store is a restaurant. They have been closed for 4 days now because too many employees have covid. They can't even staff the place and this is the third or fourth time in the last three months.
Here in the northern cali boondocks, most people won't wear masks even if a sign is posted on the door requiring masks for entry lol. They feel that, as Americans, they have the right to enter any way they choose. F the rights of the store owner. lol They come in just to yell.
those kind of folks are not exercising their rights as Americans. They are just asssholes...pure and simple
Just had two fully vaccinated family test positive for covid. The vaccine doesn't work and you are at risk for long term side effects. If you're not taking health seriously from natural stand point then you will most like be a victim of the virus regardless if you took the shot or not
I found another person that doesn't understand 95% effectiveness means vaccinated people still get it.
You have fun with that. Side effects from the fda. Just because it didn't come from mainstream media doesn't mean it's not true. If the media had your best interest at heart then they would have let you knew these side effects up front. My two family members tested positive because their immune systems is compromised by this shot not because "that's how vaccines work". Everybody pretty much made a bad decision and we will see that in the future. But do enjoy your benefits of the shots. Free McDonald's is a good trade off in my opinion.
(08-13-2021 03:33 PM)aardWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I found another person that doesn't understand 95% effectiveness means vaccinated people still get it.
If vaccinated people can still get it, why would we force millions of people with natural antibodies to take the vax?
That is not science.
Your if/then is waaaaay off. ONCE AGAIN, 95% is not 100%. No one I've seen on here except for anti-vaxxers have ever claimed the vaccine was supposed to be 100% effective.
That is not what I said or what asked you. I asked a very specific and direct question.
Your question implies that because there is a slight possibility for a vaccinated person to get it, then we SHOULDN'T encourage people to get the vaccines. That's false, and any doctor worth their salt will tell you that the vaccine provides better protection than getting it naturally. That's why my parents' doctor told them to get the vaccine even though they had COVID last year.
There is no good science that backs that up. In fact what little science we do have suggests natural immunity is better than any current vaccine. But we do not have definitive data either way.
No I did not imply that people should not get vaccinated, I implied that people who already have the antibodies should not be REQUIRED to get a vaccine to work or live their lives.
(08-13-2021 03:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ]If vaccinated people can still get it, why would we force millions of people with natural antibodies to take the vax?
That is not science.
Your if/then is waaaaay off. ONCE AGAIN, 95% is not 100%. No one I've seen on here except for anti-vaxxers have ever claimed the vaccine was supposed to be 100% effective.
That is not what I said or what asked you. I asked a very specific and direct question.
Your question implies that because there is a slight possibility for a vaccinated person to get it, then we SHOULDN'T encourage people to get the vaccines. That's false, and any doctor worth their salt will tell you that the vaccine provides better protection than getting it naturally. That's why my parents' doctor told them to get the vaccine even though they had COVID last year.
There is no good science that backs that up. In fact what little science we do have suggests natural immunity is better than any current vaccine. But we do not have definitive data either way.
No I did not imply that people should not get vaccinated, I implied that people who already have the antibodies should not be REQUIRED to get a vaccine to work or live their lives.
Quote:All approved vaccines have shown the ability to induce neutralizing antibody titers comparable to those which are elicited by natural infection, or higher. These vaccines provide very high levels of protection against moderate to severe COVID-19.
(08-13-2021 03:39 PM)aardWolf Wrote: [ -> ]Your if/then is waaaaay off. ONCE AGAIN, 95% is not 100%. No one I've seen on here except for anti-vaxxers have ever claimed the vaccine was supposed to be 100% effective.
That is not what I said or what asked you. I asked a very specific and direct question.
Your question implies that because there is a slight possibility for a vaccinated person to get it, then we SHOULDN'T encourage people to get the vaccines. That's false, and any doctor worth their salt will tell you that the vaccine provides better protection than getting it naturally. That's why my parents' doctor told them to get the vaccine even though they had COVID last year.
There is no good science that backs that up. In fact what little science we do have suggests natural immunity is better than any current vaccine. But we do not have definitive data either way.
No I did not imply that people should not get vaccinated, I implied that people who already have the antibodies should not be REQUIRED to get a vaccine to work or live their lives.
Quote:All approved vaccines have shown the ability to induce neutralizing antibody titers comparable to those which are elicited by natural infection, or higher. These vaccines provide very high levels of protection against moderate to severe COVID-19.
And I can post a gazillion links countering that word for word by medial professionals.
Now there is definitive evidence that natural immunity is as good or better than vaccine immunity in COVID-19. Researchers at the Cleveland Clinic followed 52,238 health system employees after vaccination started in December 2020. Previously infected, unvaccinated employees had no higher incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection than vaccinated employees, including those who had been previously infected and those who had not. Not one of the 1,359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated was reinfected. The authors concluded people who previously had COVID-19 are “unlikely to benefit” from vaccination and “vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.”
There is no point in using vaccines here or worldwide for people who are already immune.
(08-13-2021 03:41 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ]That is not what I said or what asked you. I asked a very specific and direct question.
Your question implies that because there is a slight possibility for a vaccinated person to get it, then we SHOULDN'T encourage people to get the vaccines. That's false, and any doctor worth their salt will tell you that the vaccine provides better protection than getting it naturally. That's why my parents' doctor told them to get the vaccine even though they had COVID last year.
There is no good science that backs that up. In fact what little science we do have suggests natural immunity is better than any current vaccine. But we do not have definitive data either way.
No I did not imply that people should not get vaccinated, I implied that people who already have the antibodies should not be REQUIRED to get a vaccine to work or live their lives.
Quote:All approved vaccines have shown the ability to induce neutralizing antibody titers comparable to those which are elicited by natural infection, or higher. These vaccines provide very high levels of protection against moderate to severe COVID-19.
And I can post a gazillion links countering that word for word by medial professionals.
Now there is definitive evidence that natural immunity is as good or better than vaccine immunity in COVID-19. Researchers at the Cleveland Clinic followed 52,238 health system employees after vaccination started in December 2020. Previously infected, unvaccinated employees had no higher incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection than vaccinated employees, including those who had been previously infected and those who had not. Not one of the 1,359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated was reinfected. The authors concluded people who previously had COVID-19 are “unlikely to benefit” from vaccination and “vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.”
There is no point in using vaccines here or worldwide for people who are already immune.
The person writing that article is taking liberties with the results of the study. The study determined that it was just as good (not better) to have immunity from infection vs vaccine.
I chose to go the vaccine route instead of rolling the dice to see how I do with the natural immunity from infection.
(08-13-2021 04:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ]If we are going to have an honest conversation about this, you are going to have to admit we do not yet have definitive data on this and the protection rate is very high for both natural immunity and vaccinated.
If you are not willing to admit that them we are not having an honest discussion.
I honestly just said that in the reply I was typing while you posted that.
(08-13-2021 04:06 PM)aardWolf Wrote: [ -> ]The person writing that article is taking liberties with the results of the study. The study determined that it was just as good (not better) to have immunity from infection vs vaccine.
I chose to go the vaccine route instead of rolling the dice to see how I do with the natural immunity from infection.
I can link up a gazillion more from countless sources.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousd...id19/92836
Epidemiologists estimate over 160 million people worldwide have recovered from COVID-19. Those who have recovered have an astonishingly low frequency of repeat infection, disease, or death. That immunity from prior infection protects many people now where vaccines are not yet available.
Earlier this month the World Health Organization released a scientific update stating that most people who have recovered from COVID-19 develop a strong protective immune response. Importantly, they summarize that within 4 weeks of infection, 90% to 99% of people who recover from COVID-19 develop detectable neutralizing antibodies. Furthermore, they conclude -- given the limited amount of time to observe cases -- that the immune response remains strong for at least 6 to 8 months after infection.
If we are going to have an honest conversation about this, you are going to have to admit we do not yet have definitive data on this and the protection rate is very high for both natural immunity and vaccinated.
If you are not willing to admit that them we are not having an honest discussion.
Quote:Natural antibodies aren't as protective against new variants
A key reason immunity from natural infection isn't entirely foolproof is the highly contagious delta variant, now accounting for more than 90% of cases in the U.S.
"Antibodies elicited by infection do not neutralize the currently circulating coronavirus variants as efficiently as antibodies elicited by mRNA vaccination," Scott Hensley, an associate professor of microbiology at the University of Pennsylvania, previously told USA TODAY.
(08-13-2021 04:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ]If we are going to have an honest conversation about this, you are going to have to admit we do not yet have definitive data on this and the protection rate is very high for both natural immunity and vaccinated.
If you are not willing to admit that them we are not having an honest discussion.
I honestly just said that in the reply I was typing while you posted that.
Then there should be no disagreement that forcing millions of people with natural immunity to get a vax to work or live their lives is wrong.
(08-13-2021 04:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ]If we are going to have an honest conversation about this, you are going to have to admit we do not yet have definitive data on this and the protection rate is very high for both natural immunity and vaccinated.
If you are not willing to admit that them we are not having an honest discussion.
I honestly just said that in the reply I was typing while you posted that.
Then there should be no disagreement that forcing millions of people with natural immunity to get a vax to work or live their lives is wrong.
You'll find no post here where I have said people should be forced to ge the vaccine. But bringing someone into a room and forcibly giving them the vaccine is not the same thing as a private business deciding that employees must be vaccinated to keep their jobs. My employer could require me to wear purple shirts to work if they want, and even fire me for refusing to wear the purple shirt. That's not forcing me to do it, as I'm not their slave. I can just go someplace that lets me wear blue.
The question you should ask yourself is do private businesses have the right to choose who they serve, as long as that isn't refusing service to a protected class (race, religion, disability).
Quote:Natural antibodies aren't as protective against new variants
A key reason immunity from natural infection isn't entirely foolproof is the highly contagious delta variant, now accounting for more than 90% of cases in the U.S.
"Antibodies elicited by infection do not neutralize the currently circulating coronavirus variants as efficiently as antibodies elicited by mRNA vaccination," Scott Hensley, an associate professor of microbiology at the University of Pennsylvania, previously told USA TODAY.
There is conflicting science and reporting on that as well, and the effectiveness of the vaccines drop with delta. There is also strong evidence the delta is less deadly that the earlier strains but more contagious.
Do you want to spend the rest of the night trading links? I have as much legit material to draw from as you.
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