(10-07-2020 07:53 AM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 08:19 PM)zablenoise Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ]Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.
I really don't think the situation is that bleak. We're not undoing any of her changes. We're just shooting the metaphorical messenger. If the next AD can figure out a halfway decent communication strategy, most of the riled alumni base will cool down.
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This is what I will hope for but I can't imagine someone wanting the job until the university makes permanent the sports cuts.
I mostly agree, but would call it settling the sports cuts issue. If sports are reinstated as long as they're self-funding, for example, I could see that as a path forward. There would be a lot of dead trees from the documents written for that though.
Personal opinions aside, the Big Picture effects of Samantha Huge’s forced resignation are extraordinary. You can bet that AD’s all over the country, many of whom were contemplating cutting some sports, are re-evaluating. They’ve seen how a tightly organized, well-connected group like ‘Save Tribe Seven’ can go on the offensive and totally turn the tables.
(10-07-2020 08:23 AM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 07:53 AM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 08:19 PM)zablenoise Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 07:47 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ]Going to be hard to shake the fact that tribe fans and some mad parents ran off an AD that actually did something (mostly positive in my opinion) after years with one who did nothing.
I really don't think the situation is that bleak. We're not undoing any of her changes. We're just shooting the metaphorical messenger. If the next AD can figure out a halfway decent communication strategy, most of the riled alumni base will cool down.
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This is what I will hope for but I can't imagine someone wanting the job until the university makes permanent the sports cuts.
I'm not so sure about that. You do understand that Rowe has essentially opened the dialogue regarding what people really want, don't you?
I could see us going backwards towards less focus on football and basketball if you let the professors and non-football people have a real seat at the table.
Whoever comes in next will surely have a specific agenda that lines up with whatever the BOV/President/Everyone else agrees on. That person had better have some social skills.
You do realize that the heavily pro-football and hoops folks are like Trump voters in 2016. They aren't going to be as loud as a Hillary supporter because of the hysterics that would be thrown at them if they were public but their thoughts matter too. Even without letters to every editor.
3455-
I’m a heavy pro-football folk.
I’m a heavy pro-hoops folk.
I’m a 2016 Trump voter.
I wrote two letters to three Administrators, and BOV secretary.
I signed a six page e-mail, with over 30 others, to individual Board members.
Facts, not hysterics, have been articulated, and there has been zero factual push-back.
The only hysterics are yours.
Most of us want enhanced football and hoops, and a broad-based program, and a cogent argument as to why that can’t happen here has yet to be made.
(10-07-2020 10:52 AM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that the heavily pro-football and hoops folks are like Trump voters in 2016. They aren't going to be as loud as a Hillary supporter because of the hysterics that would be thrown at them if they were public but their thoughts matter too. Even without letters to every editor.
I disagree with this. Maybe on Facebook, but Facebook's not really a public forum as much as a complain board mixed with "Great job" posts for obvious things. Plenty of people here were/are vocal supporters of Huge's policies while having to regularly distance ourselves/themselves from Huge herself based on how poorly she executed the decisions.
At the risk of diverting this thread, I supported replacing both Laycock and Shaver, think the subsequent hires were great, and support increasing basketball and football spending. I don't have strong opinions about the 7 cut sports. I'm disappointed men's track was on the list, but don't know what an acceptable alternative would have been. I would rather have increasing FB/BB spending without cutting sports.
Despite all of that, I'm glad that Huge resigned, because now maybe we can get someone who can still execute that vision but without making 90% of the fan base mad enough to stop supporting W&M sports.
(10-07-2020 11:26 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 10:52 AM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that the heavily pro-football and hoops folks are like Trump voters in 2016. They aren't going to be as loud as a Hillary supporter because of the hysterics that would be thrown at them if they were public but their thoughts matter too. Even without letters to every editor.
I disagree with this. Maybe on Facebook, but Facebook's not really a public forum as much as a complain board mixed with "Great job" posts for obvious things. Plenty of people here were/are vocal supporters of Huge's policies while having to regularly distance ourselves/themselves from Huge herself based on how poorly she executed the decisions.
At the risk of diverting this thread, I supported replacing both Laycock and Shaver, think the subsequent hires were great, and support increasing basketball and football spending. I don't have strong opinions about the 7 cut sports. I'm disappointed men's track was on the list, but don't know what an acceptable alternative would have been. I would rather have increasing FB/BB spending without cutting sports.
Despite all of that, I'm glad that Huge resigned, because now maybe we can get someone who can still execute that vision but without making 90% of the fan base mad enough to stop supporting W&M sports.
This. Extremely well said. (Although personally with the Shaver move I was more in camp of disagree, but open to seeing what happens -- regardless, not the point here.)
As a previous poster said, Huge made a lot of unpopular moves that needed to be made and were left to her by the previous AD who was uninterested in making any hard choices. Hope the next AD builds on that progress in a more collaborative way and with a competent messaging strategy..
In response to getting rid of Laycock and Shaver as being good things.....Firing Shaver also resulted in players transferring and not enrolling. Another miscalculation by Huge. I was a huge fan of the team last year, but would have loved to see the team with the ones who left. Fischer is a great guy from my interactions, and appears to be a grinder (which I love.....think Gary Williams). We'll see if we are any good this year without the two big guys. I think we need to see how it plays out with his own recruits. Of course he was never close to the first choice. Jury is out on London, but I am a big fan and like the energy.
Other coaching hires - Shackford inherited a somewhat bare cupboard. We'll see what she does with her own recruits (2022 HS class). VB coach had his sport cut before he was able to make much progress. Swimming was a promotion from old guard. Thank god she finally hired a woman's tennis coach before the matches started without having ANY coaches (head or assistant) after they quit with almost no notice. We know how the Lacrosse coach was run off. Not sure about the new one given much of the season was cancelled.
Big time new thinking like fitness/wellness, etc. went out the window with Korem and that disaster (which could be a steaming pile that will come home to roost soon......and could have been part of the Huge exit). This could have been a good thing, but bad hiring decision.
New head of Tribe Club......giving is down
Head of Marketing......ads on DC buses and what else? No additional community involvement.
I cannot put a finger on what was executed properly. Folks who think she was great should show their work. I don't get it.
(10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot put a finger on what was executed properly. Folks who think she was great should show their work. I don't get it.
Who has said they think she was great?
Nothing in the current world really fits into an either A or B box and this 7 sport cut didn't either. There exist other options that just cutting 7 sports and pouring the resources into 2-3 sports, or reinstating all 7 and reducing support for football and basketball. On the prior removal of our football coach and basketball coach, I was clearly against the latter and basically ok with the former(in part because I thought it was an agreed upon retirement). There was a better sense of timing and a longer review to allow a better transition. Hearing that Coach Laycock wanted one more year bothers me some. But, I thought and still think Coach London was a good hire.
But, the Shaver firing was largely due to the AD losing her temper over our 2nd half loss to her former school. If it wasn't that, it was significant financial mismanagement to add to the athletic budget with that remainder to still pay. That decision set the program back significantly in the long run, including the loss of a great assistant in Jonathan Holmes who might become a fine head coach one day himself. On March 11, there was no plan to hire Dane Fischer. Nevertheless, W&M was fortunate to get a person willing to come into the mess she created. She put the new staff in a difficult position immediately. Hopefully, he will get time to build his program with his players. Many of us can and do hate the fact she fired Coach Shaver and still want Dane Fischer to succeed. It isn't A or B.
Even if we disagree, which we often do, many of our basic principles were always the same regardless of whether we supported all sports at W&M or perhaps a select one or two. If you cannot handle disagreement with a certain level of class and humility, it is nearly impossible to be successful. Our AD did not have that skill. I can only hope for her personally that she finds it before her next position. Also, hopefully she will learn to financially manage things far better than she did here. The financial losses were significant.
As for the future, I want what is best for the students. My time at W&M is over. If we have athletic success, the victory and spoils go to the coaches, the athletes and current students(if you want to add former players, I am ok with that). I can tell you many of them are extremely glad a new chapter is beginning. W&M should be able to improve its football and basketball programs without sacrificing other successful programs like swimming and track. Despite what 3455 and I disagree on regarding the timing of the announcement, I think there likely still exists an opportunity to see if the students can save their Tribe careers and finish their time at W&M(assuming anyone gets to play given the pandemic). I am optimistic because I think our new leadership is virtually certain to be better and more open than what we have just had.
My philosophy differs from some of you. I believe you can have success with the right leadership and right people, even without great facilities. Most of the time, the right people find success first before they get the bells and whistles of upgrades. Like Coach Laycock and the 2004 semifinal team, a successful run leads to donations and upgrades. I am not sure that donations and upgrades lead to success. Under my theory, we got the Laycock Center due to the success had and the men he worked with. I think we were getting that with Coach Shaver too. Upgrades are not upgrades if they cost baseball players, track athletes and swimmers.
(10-07-2020 12:16 PM)Rocco Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot put a finger on what was executed properly. Folks who think she was great should show their work. I don't get it.
Who has said they think she was great?
Several people on this board, and maybe her mother.
(10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]...Firing Shaver also resulted in players transferring and not enrolling. Another miscalculation by Huge.
The hugeness of that miscalculation cannot be over-exaggerated. Huge was desperate for an NCAA invitation and she unwittingly threw away her best chance. We will never know what would have happened in 2019-2020 if Audige, Pierce, Milon, Owens, and the kid who transferred had stayed with the Tribe ....but I personally think that was Huge's best chance to get to the dance, certainly better than we are likely to have for at least a couple more years. So, ultimately, her bonehead move cost herself.
(10-07-2020 12:48 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 12:16 PM)Rocco Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot put a finger on what was executed properly. Folks who think she was great should show their work. I don't get it.
Who has said they think she was great?
Several people on this board, and maybe her mother.
Honestly, not one person on here has said she was great. Not that I can remember. Probably her mother but not sure she posts here.
Quite a few said they agreed with many of her moves that are unpopular on this board and beyond. Not sure I've seen anyone, including myself, state she handled the sports cuts even close to exemplary. But many still believe cuts needed to be made. We STILL have a large number of sports.
(10-07-2020 01:06 PM)Zorch Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]...Firing Shaver also resulted in players transferring and not enrolling. Another miscalculation by Huge.
The hugeness of that miscalculation cannot be over-exaggerated. Huge was desperate for an NCAA invitation and she unwittingly threw away her best chance. We will never know what would have happened in 2019-2020 if Audige, Pierce, Milon, Owens, and the kid who transferred had stayed with the Tribe ....but I personally think that was Huge's best chance to get to the dance, certainly better than we are likely to have for at least a couple more years. So, ultimately, her bonehead move cost herself.
1) It's not clear all of those guys would have come back.
2) Even if all of them came back, W&M wouldn't have been the favorite to win the CAA.
3) We'll never know for sure, but I have a pretty decent guess that would have ended in defeat due to an unwillingness to play defense. If you don't think Shaver is the guy going forward, you pull the band-aid off rather than delay the unpleasantness.
(10-07-2020 12:16 PM)Rocco Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot put a finger on what was executed properly. Folks who think she was great should show their work. I don't get it.
Who has said they think she was great?
Post #58 stops just short of using "great."
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(10-07-2020 01:13 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ]But many still believe cuts needed to be made. We STILL have a large number of sports.
I believe that a large number of sports is a strength, not a weakness.
Why do many think that sports team cuts need to be made?
Hey, this thread was originally entitled “Huge resigns”!
Tribal ... did you slip a word into the title?!
(10-07-2020 01:24 PM)Rocco Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 01:06 PM)Zorch Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 12:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: [ -> ]...Firing Shaver also resulted in players transferring and not enrolling. Another miscalculation by Huge.
The hugeness of that miscalculation cannot be over-exaggerated. Huge was desperate for an NCAA invitation and she unwittingly threw away her best chance. We will never know what would have happened in 2019-2020 if Audige, Pierce, Milon, Owens, and the kid who transferred had stayed with the Tribe ....but I personally think that was Huge's best chance to get to the dance, certainly better than we are likely to have for at least a couple more years. So, ultimately, her bonehead move cost herself.
1) It's not clear all of those guys would have come back.
2) Even if all of them came back, W&M wouldn't have been the favorite to win the CAA.
3) We'll never know for sure, but I have a pretty decent guess that would have ended in defeat due to an unwillingness to play defense. If you don't think Shaver is the guy going forward, you pull the band-aid off rather than delay the unpleasantness.
1) True, but it is equally opaque about whether they wouldn't have.
2) No one knows that. Plus, most preseason predictions are off base anyway and are met with varying amounts of derision.
3. You could be right ....but, remember, I said it was her "best chance".
(10-07-2020 02:01 PM)nj alum Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, this thread was originally entitled “Huge resigns”!
Tribal ... did you slip a word into the title?!
Now, would I do that?
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Let's simply see what happens tomorrow.
(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)nj alum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020 01:13 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote: [ -> ]But many still believe cuts needed to be made. We STILL have a large number of sports.
I believe that a large number of sports is a strength, not a weakness.
Why do many think that sports team cuts need to be made?
Like I said. We still have a large number of sports. I find it a strength as well.
I think sports teams needed to be cut because there were not enough resources to go around. And that's not completely a financial decision even though money plays a part in all of it. It is personnel.
Guarantee you EVERY coach of each cut sport has asked for more of everything over the past three years. Even though they have done without, they have wanted more and asked for more. Honestly, any decent coach would do that. One of the former swimmer/models issues was Huge not taking seriously a swimming facility. All while bemoaning the "arms race" that has put W&M in a deficit. So don't act like the status quo was what they would have accepted. At some point the decision was made that 23 sports asking for more/maybe needing more was not worth dealing with. Huge executed it poorly but the cuts could make the department stronger.