You folks will be way better off without Huge. I've observed college sports for many years, and don't remember an AD wreaking so much havoc on an athletic program, and alienating so many good people!! I'm afraid you're getting ready to find out how hard it's going to be to recover.
(10-06-2020 01:33 PM)tribalwarfare Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/jfeinsteinbooks/stat...8292690950
didn’t take long for Feinstein to get a shot in, have to wonder how many more are coming...
Feinstein was really upset when two coaches in JL and Shaver that gave good quotes were let go and never forgave Huge for that.
This is the first of many steps that would need to happen for the decision to be reversed.
Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.
Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.
Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.
(10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote: [ -> ]Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.
Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.
Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.
Thank you for the unsolicited outsider’s view, very much appreciated. Your detailed understanding of the situation is a valuable contribution.
(10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote: [ -> ]Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.
Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.
Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.
She said she looked everywhere for money for the other sports and couldn't find any from donors, yet the Swim alums were able to get over a million dollars in pledge donations in a week. W&M just finished a multi-year fundraising campaign that raised a billion dollars, and there was no mention of these sports needing increased support or they would be cut. In late June, she said there were no plans to cut any sports. Then she announced the sports were cut in a virtual meeting with athletes that lasted 5-10 minutes.
The decision to elevate basketball and football is not the problem. The problem is the way it was done, and what appears to be many lies told to the W&M students and alums (and possibly to her boss), on top of what seems to be rampant disrespect for anyone except 7 figure donors. (IMO)
So, no, it is not over a plagiarized press release.
(10-06-2020 03:13 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote: [ -> ]Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.
Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.
Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.
She said she looked everywhere for money for the other sports and couldn't find any from donors, yet the Swim alums were able to get over a million dollars in pledge donations in a week. W&M just finished a multi-year fundraising campaign that raised a billion dollars, and there was no mention of these sports needing increased support or they would be cut. In late June, she said there were no plans to cut any sports. Then she announced the sports were cut in a virtual meeting with athletes that lasted 5-10 minutes.
The decision to elevate basketball and football is not the problem. The problem is the way it was done, and what appears to be many lies told to the W&M students and alums (and possibly to her boss), on top of what seems to be rampant disrespect for anyone except 7 figure donors. (IMO)
So, no, it is not over a plagiarized press release.
Like I said before, Huge was more open to Stanford AD then to rest of us. All she had to do was more transparent to all of us.
(10-06-2020 03:13 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote: [ -> ]Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.
Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.
Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.
She said she looked everywhere for money for the other sports and couldn't find any from donors, yet the Swim alums were able to get over a million dollars in pledge donations in a week. W&M just finished a multi-year fundraising campaign that raised a billion dollars, and there was no mention of these sports needing increased support or they would be cut. In late June, she said there were no plans to cut any sports. Then she announced the sports were cut in a virtual meeting with athletes that lasted 5-10 minutes.
The decision to elevate basketball and football is not the problem. The problem is the way it was done, and what appears to be many lies told to the W&M students and alums (and possibly to her boss), on top of what seems to be rampant disrespect for anyone except 7 figure donors. (IMO)
So, no, it is not over a plagiarized press release.
I agree with this except for the part about not mentioning there being a danger to these programs during the fundraising drive.
If you had told people that within a year, we’d be in a 100 year economic and social event where students couldn’t come to campus (edit: without massive restrictions and no events) and revenues would be down historic levels, they probably would have laughed. You simply cannot fundraise for that.
That being said, once the situation became clear, she probably should have stated that the programs are in jeopardy and fundraised specifically for those, instead of just hitting the big red button. I just have a hard time knocking people for not foreseeing once in a century financial issues.
Lots of schools have cut sports during COVID, including multiple power five schools. To my knowledge, we are the only school that had a temper tantrum about such cuts. This is why we will always be small time in the college athletics world. We could have been in the ACC, but people had a temper tantrum and it never came to be. Huge was trying to elevate football and basketball to a higher level at the expense of Olympic sports, which MANY schools do in the country. If W&M wants to treat all sports equally, even though almost every other school focuses on football/basketball so be it. But then join the Patriot League or drop to Division III, where academics are the primary focus.
Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.
Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.
At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.
Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.
I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.
Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.
Maybe this was all planned. The AD office needed a massive shake-up to evolve and modernize. They brought in a wreckingball to do the dirty work, but got it out before everything was destroyed. The 7 will be reinstated for now, but probably Track/XC/Swimming will be the only ones to be viable and stay beyond the next few years. Donations may jump now out of perceived alumni satisfaction with her exit, specifically to those sports in need. We now have the collective mindset that we should in fact be spending more total dollars, in line with our peers on the money-sports. Arena being built. COA being given. Attempts at building the brand. Attention to conference affiliation and potential to leave CAA. Now for someone who can be the game manager.
(10-06-2020 03:21 PM)Jimmy Bly Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 03:13 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 03:06 PM)Eight Legger Wrote: [ -> ]Spider here. I know you guys all hate Huge's guts, but from my perspective she was trying to elevate a program that needed elevating. Laycock's teams were horrible the last few years and getting worse. Did you really want to make Shaver coach for life despite the fact he never won anything? Not sure I understand the disdain for her, aside from the fact she came in with clear (albeit lofty) goals, then set out to achieve them.
Is it because she wasn't a W&M lifer? Is she being blamed alone for cutting sports? Surely that's not a decision that she had ultimate authority to make. Besides, when there's no revenue coming in, what are the alternatives? Lots of schools are having to cut sports.
Are you really firing her because of some stolen lines in a press release? I guess I just don't get it. Good luck in your next hire.
She said she looked everywhere for money for the other sports and couldn't find any from donors, yet the Swim alums were able to get over a million dollars in pledge donations in a week. W&M just finished a multi-year fundraising campaign that raised a billion dollars, and there was no mention of these sports needing increased support or they would be cut. In late June, she said there were no plans to cut any sports. Then she announced the sports were cut in a virtual meeting with athletes that lasted 5-10 minutes.
The decision to elevate basketball and football is not the problem. The problem is the way it was done, and what appears to be many lies told to the W&M students and alums (and possibly to her boss), on top of what seems to be rampant disrespect for anyone except 7 figure donors. (IMO)
So, no, it is not over a plagiarized press release.
I agree with this except for the part about not mentioning there being a danger to these programs during the fundraising drive.
If you had told people that within a year, we’d be in a 100 year economic and social event where students couldn’t come to campus (edit: without massive restrictions and no events) and revenues would be down historic levels, they probably would have laughed. You simply cannot fundraise for that.
That being said, once the situation became clear, she probably should have stated that the programs are in jeopardy and fundraised specifically for those, instead of just hitting the big red button. I just have a hard time knocking people for not foreseeing once in a century financial issues.
I don't think this was a decision made just b/c of the COVID crisis. I think it was the plan (apparently a secret plan) and perhaps COVID sped it up a bit.
(10-06-2020 03:24 PM)NoBidNation Wrote: [ -> ]Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.
Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.
At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.
Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.
I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.
Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.
I agree 100%. My personal belief is that Huge was executing (very poorly) an agreed upon vision. I don't think there is any way that Rowe and the BOV were blindsided. And if they were blindsided, then they weren't doing their jobs either.
(10-06-2020 03:22 PM)Tribester Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of schools have cut sports during COVID, including multiple power five schools. To my knowledge, we are the only school that had a temper tantrum about such cuts. This is why we will always be small time in the college athletics world. We could have been in the ACC, but people had a temper tantrum and it never came to be. Huge was trying to elevate football and basketball to a higher level at the expense of Olympic sports, which MANY schools do in the country. If W&M wants to treat all sports equally, even though almost every other school focuses on football/basketball so be it. But then join the Patriot League or drop to Division III, where academics are the primary focus.
"Appeal to the Majority".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkoMdnCS...Lt&index=1
Thanks, Blow Gym rat).
(10-06-2020 03:22 PM)Tribester Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of schools have cut sports during COVID, including multiple power five schools. To my knowledge, we are the only school that had a temper tantrum about such cuts. This is why we will always be small time in the college athletics world. We could have been in the ACC, but people had a temper tantrum and it never came to be. Huge was trying to elevate football and basketball to a higher level at the expense of Olympic sports, which MANY schools do in the country. If W&M wants to treat all sports equally, even though almost every other school focuses on football/basketball so be it. But then join the Patriot League or drop to Division III, where academics are the primary focus.
A lot of schools, in fact most schools, haven't had to cut anything.
We're not immune to the financial hit obviously, but it seems pretty clear to me that alumni were willing to fundraise money to keep (at least some) of the sports going. Seems like if nothing else Huge did a poor job even attempting to save any sports.
So now can we say we have officially decided that hiring her was a HUGE mistake?
(10-06-2020 03:30 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020 03:24 PM)NoBidNation Wrote: [ -> ]Feels to me like administration/the BOV is scapegoating Huge for something that they also were pushing for.
Look, you can tell your anecdotes about how Huge is cold in person, or write about how your unnamed sources in the athletic dept think she's an aggressive and unsettling leader. Sure, maybe that's true, and I get that fundraising is part of an AD's job -- but that's not why she's being let go now.
At the very least, Huge had a vision for W&M athletics. One that was shared by those who hired her on the BOV and the President that joined her. The disconnect between admin/BOV and at least some of the community (a very angry, vocal slice of the community) does not go away.
Are there going to be ways to move forward with 7 sports? Yeah, I think status quo + more donations is a reasonable place to be in for now. But at some point you have to figure out where on the sliding scale you are between "D3-esque liberal arts school that focuses on Olympic sports" and "Villanova," and moving either way requires sacrifice.
I guess what I'm saying is that at this point, any way you resolve the issues within Tribe Athletics makes some group very unhappy.
Edit: I'm not saying Huge didn't deserve to be let go. Her handling of this entire situation was horrendous. But some of that blame needs to shift to her supervisors as well.
I agree 100%. I personal belief is that Huge was executing (very poorly) an agreed upon vision. I don't think there is any way that Rowe and the BOV were blindsided. And if they were blindsided, then they weren't doing their jobs either.
Bingo.
Relatedly: Out of the people who have opposed Huge on this, there are really two groups. Those who disagree with the end goal, and those who agree with the end goal but were turned against by the process.
I fall in that second group, to some extent. I was on board with the arena, new logos, UA deal (ftr, I hated firing Tony). But to cut sports, you have to clear a certain level of trust with the community that she just never built.
I think if Huge/the school had done due diligence on this, it might have gone through. But this just seemed like a pet project instead of a necessity to benefit the school at large. And the PR disaster following it was more than enough to need to get rid of somebody.
Time to regroup, heal from a three year disaster, and move on. Really hope Rowe brings in someone great...this will be a monumental hire.
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When Shaver was let go I had an email exchange with Samantha. We agreed to disagree, and I offered only this advice. If you want things to move forward on a positive footing at W&M, there is nothing more important than transparency. Clearly she did not heed my advice.
(10-06-2020 03:22 PM)Tribester Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of schools have cut sports during COVID, including multiple power five schools. To my knowledge, we are the only school that had a temper tantrum about such cuts. This is why we will always be small time in the college athletics world. We could have been in the ACC, but people had a temper tantrum and it never came to be. Huge was trying to elevate football and basketball to a higher level at the expense of Olympic sports, which MANY schools do in the country. If W&M wants to treat all sports equally, even though almost every other school focuses on football/basketball so be it. But then join the Patriot League or drop to Division III, where academics are the primary focus.
Sounds like there are no shortage of College’s you could support that have your desired model of slashing Olympic sports in favor of basketball and football. Perhaps you should pick one of them? I’m sorry the bulk of the W&M fan base subscribes to such antiquated values. No need to drop conferences though, we’ll just roll up our collective sleeves and take bold action. You’re welcome to join the effort to boost all sports, which is what the folks having a so called “temper tantrum” are attempting to do.