07-17-2020, 09:36 AM
A combined Akron-Kent State would be huge enrollment wise- approximately 55,000. That would vault them over is by almost 10,000 students as the second largest university in the state.
(07-17-2020 09:28 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ](07-17-2020 08:32 AM)OKIcat Wrote: [ -> ](07-17-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ](07-16-2020 11:15 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-16-2020 09:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dang. The University of Akron just took 1/5 of their full time faculty off the books. Terminated 97 and had 21 quit or retire that won’t be replaced...out of just 570.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020...sity-akron
This has been building at Akron for a decade. They had a delusional President who spent money hand over fist in an attempt to turn them into OSU (and used to publicly brag that they would shortly become the first choice public university for Northeast Ohio kids within a few years) and then walked away before the financial house of cards came tumbling down. Their enrollment has been declining for years. They built a 60M football stadium that's 80% empty most Saturdays. They can blame this on COVID all they want, but their day of reckoning was coming virus or not. I hope Kent State makes good use of their soon to be downtown branch.
Maybe UC should beat them to the punch and open up the UC-Northeast Branch.
Even the mention of it would send a shockwave through Cowtown. I like it. And that polymer science unit would open a new opportunity for extending UC's considerable research and education in STEM fields.
It would've two years ago before it was strip-mined by Duke University. As 1985 said, this has been written on the wall for years...and we've both been throwing out the regional education consortium model on here for quite some time. NE Ohio is going to be the pilot case for that.
(07-17-2020 08:32 AM)OKIcat Wrote: [ -> ](07-17-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ](07-16-2020 11:15 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-16-2020 09:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dang. The University of Akron just took 1/5 of their full time faculty off the books. Terminated 97 and had 21 quit or retire that won’t be replaced...out of just 570.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020...sity-akron
This has been building at Akron for a decade. They had a delusional President who spent money hand over fist in an attempt to turn them into OSU (and used to publicly brag that they would shortly become the first choice public university for Northeast Ohio kids within a few years) and then walked away before the financial house of cards came tumbling down. Their enrollment has been declining for years. They built a 60M football stadium that's 80% empty most Saturdays. They can blame this on COVID all they want, but their day of reckoning was coming virus or not. I hope Kent State makes good use of their soon to be downtown branch.
Maybe UC should beat them to the punch and open up the UC-Northeast Branch.
Even the mention of it would send a shockwave through Cowtown. I like it. And that polymer science unit would open a new opportunity for extending UC's considerable research and education in STEM fields.
(07-18-2020 09:58 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-17-2020 08:32 AM)OKIcat Wrote: [ -> ](07-17-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ](07-16-2020 11:15 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-16-2020 09:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dang. The University of Akron just took 1/5 of their full time faculty off the books. Terminated 97 and had 21 quit or retire that won’t be replaced...out of just 570.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020...sity-akron
This has been building at Akron for a decade. They had a delusional President who spent money hand over fist in an attempt to turn them into OSU (and used to publicly brag that they would shortly become the first choice public university for Northeast Ohio kids within a few years) and then walked away before the financial house of cards came tumbling down. Their enrollment has been declining for years. They built a 60M football stadium that's 80% empty most Saturdays. They can blame this on COVID all they want, but their day of reckoning was coming virus or not. I hope Kent State makes good use of their soon to be downtown branch.
Maybe UC should beat them to the punch and open up the UC-Northeast Branch.
Even the mention of it would send a shockwave through Cowtown. I like it. And that polymer science unit would open a new opportunity for extending UC's considerable research and education in STEM fields.
I don't think OSU would really care all that much. OSU is one of about 12-15 public universities in the country that's reached a critical mass of endowment, fundraising, research funding and student selectivity where they can safely float above the rest of their state system. If OSU had any designs on Akron's polymer program, they would have poached it a long time ago. They probably didn't because they're already strong in Chemistry and Chemical Engineering and didn't need the political blowback of poaching another state school's one point of pride.
Wright State is a more interesting case though, should it need to be absorbed by another university. I'm not sure that UC could stop OSU there. OSU literally founded WSU back in the day and already has strong research ties with WPAFB plus the support of the politicians and ties to the DoD. I think the best course of action for UC would not be to take the Ono angle of competing against OSU but rather attempt to be their partner in the takeover. Given that Aerospace Engineering is one of the few departments where UC not only holds their own with OSU but is arguably stronger, this could be an area where UC could take a proactive, non-confrontational approach to OSU to reshape the system and undo the bad blood from the Ono years.
(07-19-2020 09:12 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ]People really need to understand how strong of a marketing tool football is to boost enrollment. For a school like UC that has made it their stated mission to increase enrollment as a financial cornerstone, the loss of football would be massive.
And I'm not just talking about the hypothesized "flutie effect", but the presence of major Division 1 athletics in general. It's been a huge staple of UC's recent growth.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
(07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
(07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
(07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
(07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).(07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
(07-25-2020 09:47 AM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).(07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
(07-25-2020 09:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 09:47 AM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).(07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ]Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
The WSU thing is interesting. UC can't "win," but if it pursues a conciliatory non-competitive path with OSU (the opposite of what Ono would do), it can end up in a constructive collaboration where it doesn't lose. If I take off the black and red glasses for a moment, I think it's up to UC to show the good faith here and demonstrate to OSU that it can be a constructive partner rather than a rival. Ono did everything he could to throw gasoline on the relationship and then dance around with a zippo in his hand, but with him gone and a new OSU President coming in, there is a window to take a different path.
(07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
(07-25-2020 02:06 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 09:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 09:47 AM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).(07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
The WSU thing is interesting. UC can't "win," but if it pursues a conciliatory non-competitive path with OSU (the opposite of what Ono would do), it can end up in a constructive collaboration where it doesn't lose. If I take off the black and red glasses for a moment, I think it's up to UC to show the good faith here and demonstrate to OSU that it can be a constructive partner rather than a rival. Ono did everything he could to throw gasoline on the relationship and then dance around with a zippo in his hand, but with him gone and a new OSU President coming in, there is a window to take a different path.
Spot on we should genuflect to the God of OSU and hope for some crumbs from them.
(07-25-2020 03:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
I agree about Toledo. IMO, they're in pretty decent shape and are neck-and-neck with Kent to be #3 after UC. Although I'm not the one on this board who works there....
A question to Mr. 1985 - what do you mean by "academic empire building?" Do you mean that they went into too much debt to build new buildings? Or they opened programs with high fixed costs whose demand will dry up? Or something else?
(07-25-2020 03:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
I agree about Toledo. IMO, they're in pretty decent shape and are neck-and-neck with Kent to be #3 after UC. Although I'm not the one on this board who works there....
A question to Mr. 1985 - what do you mean by "academic empire building?" Do you mean that they went into too much debt to build new buildings? Or they opened programs with high fixed costs whose demand will dry up? Or something else?
(07-25-2020 09:47 AM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).(07-25-2020 07:54 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.
I don't know about Vedder's description of OU. I think he might be looking back at his institution with some rose colored glasses. OU didn't move to selective admissions until well after OSU did and never caught up or came close to OSU or Miami. I remember them having a decent reputation for undergrad but nothing special. Probably the best thing that happened to them was OSU's forced open admissions in the 60s and 70s so they could market themselves as "OSU's no different than US!" Recently, they have really stagnated though, and UC has firmly moved past them as an undergraduate college as evidenced by both rankings and admissions selectivity.
If I had to handicap the field, it'd be something like this:
Above The Fray: OSU (too much endowment, fundraising, research funding, admissions demand and political power for anyone else to be in their orbit)
Thrive: UC (clearly has established itself as the state's secondary comprehensive research university, solid fundraising and endowment, big time athletic department. The goal in the next decade is to expand its reach into being a truly statewide institution.)
Survive Intact: Miami (Solid finances, strong--though ultimately limited due to the university's culture--admissions demand. I may not care for the place, but they've carved out their own peculiar little niche that works for them. The one caveat is that if their Chicago pipeline dries up all bets are off since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU right now, and they've never been able to build that out of state demand in the West or Northeast as successfully as they've strip mined the Chicago suburbs.)
Survive But Not Without Pain and Changes: OU, KSU, BGSU (these schools are going to have to face up to the folly of their ridiculous academic empire building over the last 50 years and will face serious restructuring. They did not pass GO, they did not get 2 billion dollar endowments and they do not get to be OSU)
In Real Danger: UT, CSU, Shawnee State, Youngstown State
Bring Out Cha Dead!: Akron (say hello to KSU's new Urban campus), Wright State (OSU's WPAFB research extension, come on down!)
I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.
Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.
OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
(07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ](07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b
Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.