This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.
Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama
i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.
(03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.
Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama
i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.
You need to finish waking up. Those are not CUSA teams.
(03-18-2017 08:53 AM)Steve1981 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.
Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama
i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.
You need to finish waking up. Those are not CUSA teams.
Those are his suggested additions for each side of CUSA to get to 10.
I don't see split as the answer because of the basketball auto bid and football revenue sharing that follow the CUSA entity. But I do think we will see more creative scheduling that reduces travel costs, and that may even morph into two more schools (even non-football) willing to join (maybe for no share of the football revenues if they are non-football schools to reduce Olympic sports travel cost).
West core group starts with Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Rice, UTEP and UTSA. East core group has Charlotte, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Marshall, and Old Dominion. The two adds depend on how the central programs (Middle Tennessee, Southern Miss, UAB, and Western Kentucky) prefer to align. And that seems to be the main issue in the splitting talk. If Middle Tennessee, UAB, and Western Kentucky prefer to stay together and go East, football adds are back on the table to complete the West. Which two programs are attractive to Southern Miss in the West? Louisiana is obvious. Maybe this is how Arkansas State finally gets a look, but would they jump?
Most on this board would say yes to the idea of a CUSA split.
There are some problems which I am going to list:
1) CFP contract is for CUSA and not any other new conference that will be formed. This can be adjusted potentially but that is a risk of splitting. The contract is good yet for 9 more seasons so its going to be a while.
2) By the end of the B12 TV deal there may be some realignment. This realignment could give opportunities for schools like SoMiss, WKU and ODU to find a space in the AAC. Do you bother with splitting if the end game is to jump?
3) Where is the value in CUSA anyways? Is there value in creating a better basketball grouping or a better football grouping? I feel like it makes sense to focus on basketball and take in only 1 of the new Florida schools. Perhaps bring in Georgia State because of the media market and basketball.
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Ky
Middle Tenn
Charlotte
Georgia State
UAB
Florida International
8 team conference that requires a smaller revenue split from the NCAA and CFP.
The SBC would be down to 9 and CUSA down to 6. Nobody in the SBC is going to move to CUSA at that point. SBC could instead invite FAU, SoMiss and UTSA into their conference. SBC has a good football brand these days.
That would leave UTEP, Rice and LaTech as independents. They can play with themselves, New Mexico State and BYU as a group of western independents.
I think some of the western schools would want to join the eastern schools instead of the Texas schools like la tech, s miss and UAB. Not to mention utep and rice might want to join the mwc or aac so the west break off seems shaky. Cusa probably would be better off expanding to 16 with Arkansas state and Georgia state to see how that works before splitting.
(03-18-2017 09:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ]Most on this board would say yes to the idea of a CUSA split.
There are some problems which I am going to list:
1) CFP contract is for CUSA and not any other new conference that will be formed. This can be adjusted potentially but that is a risk of splitting. The contract is good yet for 9 more seasons so its going to be a while.
2) By the end of the B12 TV deal there may be some realignment. This realignment could give opportunities for schools like SoMiss, WKU and ODU to find a space in the AAC. Do you bother with splitting if the end game is to jump?
3) Where is the value in CUSA anyways? Is there value in creating a better basketball grouping or a better football grouping? I feel like it makes sense to focus on basketball and take in only 1 of the new Florida schools. Perhaps bring in Georgia State because of the media market and basketball.
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Ky
Middle Tenn
Charlotte
Georgia State
UAB
Florida International
8 team conference that requires a smaller revenue split from the NCAA and CFP.
The SBC would be down to 9 and CUSA down to 6. Nobody in the SBC is going to move to CUSA at that point. SBC could instead invite FAU, SoMiss and UTSA into their conference. SBC has a good football brand these days.
That would leave UTEP, Rice and LaTech as independents. They can play with themselves, New Mexico State and BYU as a group of western independents.
There may be some expanding after the B12 contract is up but it won't be the b12 expanding.
(03-18-2017 10:15 AM)jaredf29 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2017 09:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ]Most on this board would say yes to the idea of a CUSA split.
There are some problems which I am going to list:
1) CFP contract is for CUSA and not any other new conference that will be formed. This can be adjusted potentially but that is a risk of splitting. The contract is good yet for 9 more seasons so its going to be a while.
2) By the end of the B12 TV deal there may be some realignment. This realignment could give opportunities for schools like SoMiss, WKU and ODU to find a space in the AAC. Do you bother with splitting if the end game is to jump?
3) Where is the value in CUSA anyways? Is there value in creating a better basketball grouping or a better football grouping? I feel like it makes sense to focus on basketball and take in only 1 of the new Florida schools. Perhaps bring in Georgia State because of the media market and basketball.
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Ky
Middle Tenn
Charlotte
Georgia State
UAB
Florida International
8 team conference that requires a smaller revenue split from the NCAA and CFP.
The SBC would be down to 9 and CUSA down to 6. Nobody in the SBC is going to move to CUSA at that point. SBC could instead invite FAU, SoMiss and UTSA into their conference. SBC has a good football brand these days.
That would leave UTEP, Rice and LaTech as independents. They can play with themselves, New Mexico State and BYU as a group of western independents.
There may be some expanding after the B12 contract is up but it won't be the b12 expanding.
Don't you think if Oklahoma and Texas hit the door the B12 will want to push back to 12 schools?
Houston, Memphis and Cincinnati probably all find spaces with maybe a Colorado State or BYU getting a shot.
That would open up space in the AAC for some CUSA schools.
None of the CUSA teams add any value to AAC, except maybe MTSU. So, they are not going to help CUSA down size. Presently for some CUSA teams their markets don't benefit the AAC and for the other teams their investment and vision in their programs don't match the AAC. The traveling and scheduling are killing the conference. The cost of travel is too much and not playing each team every year hinders rivalries developing.
With that said, with TV revue and exposer now none existent CUSA has three options if they are going to successfully survive and market the conference.
1. Release the Texas schools and circle the wagons.
2. Add two teams and in basketball & football the east and west only play against each other during championship time
3. Spit the conference down the middle and let each side go their separate ways and add three teams in their region.
(03-18-2017 08:53 AM)Steve1981 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.
Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama
i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.
You need to finish waking up. Those are not CUSA teams.
I need to wake up? Read my post genius--those are teams I'm proposing to add.
No, there will be shifts that shrink C-USA from 14 to as few as 8 schools. UTEP and Rice could go to the MWC. Some others could go to the AAC if the Big 12 or possibly ACC (I have heard rumors) raid the AAC.
(03-18-2017 09:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ]2) By the end of the B12 TV deal there may be some realignment. This realignment could give opportunities for schools like SoMiss, WKU and ODU to find a space in the AAC. Do you bother with splitting if the end game is to jump?
I think this keeps everyone together for now. Is the future Big 12 still viable if Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas flee? Are the remaining programs taking expansion applications, or begging the G5 conferences for safe landing spots?
If a core group keeps the Big 12 name, has a war chest of NCAA basketball credits, and better television contract prospects than the other G5 conferences, they are in control and likely to get applicants from all of the G5 conferences. After those B12 additions are made, the G5 rearranging happens in the central and mountain time zones.
(03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.
Well, you're wrong. Did a deep dive through the current bylaws (2015-16) and the old "X schools played together for Y years" is Not A Thing anymore.
http://csnbbs.com/thread-768543.html
That said, in the NCAA, if the powerful want something, they're likely to get it. And the Powers That Be will not smile on giving the 14 current CUSA schools plus some new friends one of "their" 68 NCAA tournament bids. There's not likely to be much sympathy for FBS schools wanting smaller travel budgets--you're in the big boy division, put on your big boy big wallet pants, is the likely response.
(03-18-2017 10:49 AM)Rabonchild Wrote: [ -> ]1. Release the Texas schools and circle the wagons.
There is no mechanism for this to happen unless the MWC cooperates with membership offers.
(03-18-2017 09:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ]Most on this board would say yes to the idea of a CUSA split.
There are some problems which I am going to list:
1) CFP contract is for CUSA and not any other new conference that will be formed. This can be adjusted potentially but that is a risk of splitting. The contract is good yet for 9 more seasons so its going to be a while.
2) By the end of the B12 TV deal there may be some realignment. This realignment could give opportunities for schools like SoMiss, WKU and ODU to find a space in the AAC. Do you bother with splitting if the end game is to jump?
3) Where is the value in CUSA anyways? Is there value in creating a better basketball grouping or a better football grouping? I feel like it makes sense to focus on basketball and take in only 1 of the new Florida schools. Perhaps bring in Georgia State because of the media market and basketball.
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Ky
Middle Tenn
Charlotte
Georgia State
UAB
Florida International
8 team conference that requires a smaller revenue split from the NCAA and CFP.
The SBC would be down to 9 and CUSA down to 6. Nobody in the SBC is going to move to CUSA at that point. SBC could instead invite FAU, SoMiss and UTSA into their conference. SBC has a good football brand these days.
That would leave UTEP, Rice and LaTech as independents. They can play with themselves, New Mexico State and BYU as a group of western independents.
Might be better in the short run to add 2 to each side of CUSA. The conference would then divide into divisions for all sports and would only play schools from the other divisions in championship games. That's basically the same as splitting--but it preserves all the autobids. You could even allow each division to shop it's 2nd tier deal separatelly. For Instance, the West Tier2 rights might be an excellent fit for Fox Sports SW. It might be easier for each division to get regional coverage that way.
Effectively, it's would be 2 conferences sharing one headquarters and a tv deal (to whatever degree that want to negotiate together).
(03-18-2017 11:31 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2017 09:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ]Most on this board would say yes to the idea of a CUSA split.
There are some problems which I am going to list:
1) CFP contract is for CUSA and not any other new conference that will be formed. This can be adjusted potentially but that is a risk of splitting. The contract is good yet for 9 more seasons so its going to be a while.
2) By the end of the B12 TV deal there may be some realignment. This realignment could give opportunities for schools like SoMiss, WKU and ODU to find a space in the AAC. Do you bother with splitting if the end game is to jump?
3) Where is the value in CUSA anyways? Is there value in creating a better basketball grouping or a better football grouping? I feel like it makes sense to focus on basketball and take in only 1 of the new Florida schools. Perhaps bring in Georgia State because of the media market and basketball.
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Ky
Middle Tenn
Charlotte
Georgia State
UAB
Florida International
8 team conference that requires a smaller revenue split from the NCAA and CFP.
The SBC would be down to 9 and CUSA down to 6. Nobody in the SBC is going to move to CUSA at that point. SBC could instead invite FAU, SoMiss and UTSA into their conference. SBC has a good football brand these days.
That would leave UTEP, Rice and LaTech as independents. They can play with themselves, New Mexico State and BYU as a group of western independents.
Might be better in the short run to add 2 to each side of CUSA. The conference would then divide into divisions for all sports and would only play schools from the other divisions in championship games. That's basically the same as splitting--but it preserves all the autobids. You could even allow each division to shop it's 2nd tier deal separatelly. For those net ace, the West Tier2 rights might be an excellent fit for Fox Sports SW. It might be easier for each division to get regional coverage that way.
Effectively, it's would be 2 conferences sharing one headquarters and a tv deal (to whatever degree that want to negotiate together).
That really seems to be the better option due to the CFP contract.
The other option is for the CUSA west to split and merge with the WAC members which keeps the autobid for basketball.
This could be done probably when it gets closer to the end of the CFP contract and by that time the WAC may be trimmed down enough to not be a big issue. Or....it could be done sooner if the WAC lost members and was on the grace period to break away and make the WAC a FBS conference again.
(03-18-2017 10:49 AM)Rabonchild Wrote: [ -> ]None of the CUSA teams add any value to AAC, except maybe MTSU. So, they are not going to help CUSA down size. Presently for some CUSA teams their markets don't benefit the AAC and for the other teams their investment and vision in their programs don't match the AAC. The traveling and scheduling are killing the conference. The cost of travel is too much and not playing each team every year hinders rivalries developing.
With that said, with TV revue and exposer now none existent CUSA has three options if they are going to successfully survive and market the conference.
1. Release the Texas schools and circle the wagons.
2. Add two teams and in basketball & football the east and west only play against each other during championship time
3. Spit the conference down the middle and let each side go their separate ways and add three teams in their region.
Actually, if the AAC ever added some team[s] from C-USA, it'd be UTEP, UTSA, Rice, Charlotte, Old Dominion and Southern Miss (because of their history with the majority of the AAC schools). Maybe UAB or Marshall for the same reason. They have the markets and overall profile the AAC is looking for.
(03-18-2017 10:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2017 08:53 AM)Steve1981 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.
Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama
i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.
You need to finish waking up. Those are not CUSA teams.
I need to wake up? Read my post genius--those are teams I'm proposing to add.
Ya, saw each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues. Then saw what looked like a league of 10 team league, with east and west divisions without any CUSA teams. Saw the 'Possible Additions' but lost the context as my mind jumped to those teams being a nice conference for the SunBelt.
As others have suggested it would be best to first build up to 16 teams before the split. Think Kittonhead #3 is a key question what would the focus be. There are only 2 G5 conferences with a strong east coast face. As the A10, which UMass is a founding member. What would our plan B, if the AAC never happens. What could make an eastern division of CUSA more appealing. Could not think of a good split that included multiple Florida teams and/or 300 RPI BB teams.
So we have 14 CUSA schools and 10 Sunbelt schools. Add 2 more, JMU and Liberty, for a total of 26.
CUSA North - OD, LU, JMU, Marshall, Charlotte, App
CUSA South - WKU, MT, UAB, Ga St, GS, Coastal
Have the basketball tournament in Charlotte
SBC East - Troy, S Ala, USM, FAU, FIU, La Tech, ULM
SBC West - ULL, ASU, Rice, Tex St, UNT, UTSA, UTEP
Have the basketball Tournament in New Orleans
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
C-USA West + ULL and Texas State would make a nice conference.
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
North Texas
Rice
Southern Miss
Texas State
UAB
UTEP
UTSA