(06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Even if that's true, which I doubt, OU will simply leave at the first opportunity if their concerns are not addressed.
(06-25-2015 06:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: [ -> ]The PAC's issue in regards to schools like BYU, Baylor and TCU isn't that they are religious based. It is about whether or not they push that on everyone that attends.
SMU doesn't push religion. But they are owned by the Methodist church. No way they are getting in the Pac 12.
(06-25-2015 06:22 PM)CougarRed Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 06:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: [ -> ]The PAC's issue in regards to schools like BYU, Baylor and TCU isn't that they are religious based. It is about whether or not they push that on everyone that attends.
SMU doesn't push religion. But they are owned by the Methodist church. No way they are getting in the Pac 12.
Then they would be fine. The USC was once part of the Methodist church. SMU wont get into the PAC for other reasons. TCU has put so much distance between themselves and SMU that their old rivalry seems to not be of much value anymore.
(06-25-2015 06:17 PM)CougarRed Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Even if that's true, which I doubt, OU will simply leave at the first opportunity if their concerns are not addressed.
Boren is setting the stage for a Texoma 4 exit. Boren can look at expansion candidates and the Big 12 left overs and say he tried.
(06-25-2015 06:17 PM)CougarRed Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Even if that's true, which I doubt, OU will simply leave at the first opportunity if their concerns are not addressed.
Remember, you have Football Coaches saying one thing and Athletic Directors saying one thing and Presidents saying one thing.
And that is just at one school.
For example, Rutgers President could care less if they even fielded sports yet he just won the lottery. Go figure?
(06-25-2015 08:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 08:21 AM)Stay Cool Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 08:12 AM)SDSUguy Wrote: [ -> ]Frank the Tank's Big 12 expansion index refresher:
http://frankthetank.me/2013/10/30/the-bi...-all-over/
No NIU there? I've gotta imagine they'd be under the location subject... or at least above freaking Temple
As you NIU have said, "DatMarketYo". Temple owns a bigger piece of the Philadelphia market than NIU does of the Chicago market.
Temple is so far behind Northern Illinois. There is really no support, and no viewers. Tulane, Rice, SMU and Houston should be removed from the list.
Colorado State and Boise State's basketball is much better than UNLV's the past couple of years.
Memphis football fans show more support even when they are losing.
(06-25-2015 12:31 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 11:52 AM)VirginiaPirate Wrote: [ -> ]Back on track: The best expansion options out there will need to bring a similar football culture, eastern location to partner with WVU, competitive record vs. P5, and new markets for the B12.
The best options bringing these are Cincy, Memphis, East Carolina, and UCF.
After that I would say Temple and USF.
Followed by UCONN and Navy and Army.
Temple? really?
I don't think the Big XII is about markets quite as much as the B1G or SEC....I think what they need more of is content, ie. schools that can make a splash immediately
I like BYU, Boise State, and UCF
San Diego State, East Carolina, and Cincinnati are also good
Sadly the western schools are not in the running. So forget all the schools west of the Rockies to get in. Colorado State, New Mexico, Air Force, Wyoming and North Dakota State could be on the list.
Colorado State and North Dakota State can bring a splash.
So, the eastern schools in the running are Northern Illinois (splash), Cincinnati, East Carolina, Memphis, UCF, Old Dominion, USF, Georgia Southern and Toledo all could be teams in the east that could make a splash. Georgia Southern was the best team out of the Sun Belt that have been strong the past couple of years against P5 conferences including a win at Florida.
(06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Is this really coming from the universities or from the Big 12 conference office who is mainly run by Texas? I disagree when West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State and TCU are for expansion. I do not think West Virginia would be against expansion because it will hurt them in a long run if they do not expand now.
I think Oklahoma might have gotten an offer from the Big 10, and they are trying to get the Big 12 to get a Network, and bring in more teams. If Oklahoma do not get what they want? I could see they will accept an invite from the Big 10, and leave tomorrow. They could afford to pay the exit fees. The other schools not named Texas and Oklahoma can not afford it.
(06-25-2015 07:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Is this really coming from the universities or from the Big 12 conference office who is mainly run by Texas? I disagree when West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State and TCU are for expansion. I do not think West Virginia would be against expansion because it will hurt them in a long run if they do not expand now.
I think Oklahoma might have gotten an offer from the Big 10, and they are trying to get the Big 12 to get a Network, and bring in more teams. If Oklahoma do not get what they want? I could see they will accept an invite from the Big 10, and leave tomorrow. They could afford to pay the exit fees. The other schools not named Texas and Oklahoma can not afford it.
So much fail in this post. LET ME EXPLAIN THIS CLEARLY FOR YOU--
THE BIG 12 IS NOT EXPANDING.
BOREN PUT UT AND THE REST OF THE BIG 12 ON NOTICE--- THEY ARE NOT HAPPY.
Boren is doing UT's dirty work because the Big 12 is dying.
(06-25-2015 08:11 PM)RaiderRed Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 07:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Is this really coming from the universities or from the Big 12 conference office who is mainly run by Texas? I disagree when West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State and TCU are for expansion. I do not think West Virginia would be against expansion because it will hurt them in a long run if they do not expand now.
I think Oklahoma might have gotten an offer from the Big 10, and they are trying to get the Big 12 to get a Network, and bring in more teams. If Oklahoma do not get what they want? I could see they will accept an invite from the Big 10, and leave tomorrow. They could afford to pay the exit fees. The other schools not named Texas and Oklahoma can not afford it.
So much fail in this post. LET ME EXPLAIN THIS CLEARLY FOR YOU-- THE BIG 12 IS NOT EXPANDING.
BOREN PUT UT AND THE REST OF THE BIG 12 ON NOTICE--- THEY ARE NOT HAPPY.
Boren is doing UT's dirty work because the Big 12 is dying.
RE B12 NOT EXPANDING: IDKKKKK - fast food joints, mass produced chain restaurant food, red meat-heavy diets, and drive throughs certainly aren't doing that area of the country's belt line any favors....
(06-25-2015 08:11 PM)RaiderRed Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 07:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 04:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ]Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4m4 minutes ago OU’s Boren “pretty much alone” in wanting expansion among Big 12 presidents sources told @ESPN
Is this really coming from the universities or from the Big 12 conference office who is mainly run by Texas? I disagree when West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State and TCU are for expansion. I do not think West Virginia would be against expansion because it will hurt them in a long run if they do not expand now.
I think Oklahoma might have gotten an offer from the Big 10, and they are trying to get the Big 12 to get a Network, and bring in more teams. If Oklahoma do not get what they want? I could see they will accept an invite from the Big 10, and leave tomorrow. They could afford to pay the exit fees. The other schools not named Texas and Oklahoma can not afford it.
So much fail in this post. LET ME EXPLAIN THIS CLEARLY FOR YOU-- THE BIG 12 IS NOT EXPANDING.
BOREN PUT UT AND THE REST OF THE BIG 12 ON NOTICE--- THEY ARE NOT HAPPY.
Boren is doing UT's dirty work because the Big 12 is dying.
You may be right on this. It would at least explain why the B12 isn't doing what every single person in the nation says they should do, expand. It explains why, despite Bowlsby lying about money, that actually the B12 contract stipulates that additional teams raises the contract so nobody loses money (on tier 1 payout). I mean, you read that and think, "Why lie about it? Why not expand"? But if it's dying and the Texoma four are bolting, then it makes sense now.
Taking what Raider Red said, it kind of makes sense...
So when you look at the B12 it doesn't make sense to common folk why they don't expand. They are the smallest P5, they have the smallest amount of TV sets, they are Texas centric, etc etc etc.
We were told adding two teams will make them further divide the pie. But then it came out that this was a lie and on Tier 1, the contract stipulates that if they add teams, the contract increases per add so nobody loses money.
You see WVA on an island which is pointless.
So you look at the B12 and it just doesn't make sense why they don't expand.
But one option is, UT, OU, OSU, and Tech all know they are bolting and so they are strip mining this thing before they leave.
"Boran at OU said they need to expand" you say. Yeah, but maybe that was just so after they bolt he can save face and say, "I tried".
The Texoma Four bolting and leaving the B12, which is dying for dead at least provides a reasonable reason why they B12 hasn't/isn't expanding and would support Bowlsby's comments about no expansion.
If this happens, we still win (on a smaller scale) because you have to believe the B12 left overs will combine with UC, and select others. Won't be a power conference, but will be better than we have now.
(06-25-2015 08:41 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote: [ -> ]Taking what Raider Red said, it kind of makes sense...
So when you look at the B12 it doesn't make sense to common folk why they don't expand. They are the smallest P5, they have the smallest amount of TV sets, they are Texas centric, etc etc etc.
We were told adding two teams will make them further divide the pie. But then it came out that this was a lie and on Tier 1, the contract stipulates that if they add teams, the contract increases per add so nobody loses money.
You see WVA on an island which is pointless.
So you look at the B12 and it just doesn't make sense why they don't expand.
But one option is, UT, OU, OSU, and Tech all know they are bolting and so they are strip mining this thing before they leave.
"Boran at OU said they need to expand" you say. Yeah, but maybe that was just so after they bolt he can save face and say, "I tried".
The Texoma Four bolting and leaving the B12, which is dying for dead at least provides a reasonable reason why they B12 hasn't/isn't expanding and would support Bowlsby's comments about no expansion.
If this happens, we still win (on a smaller scale) because you have to believe the B12 left overs will combine with UC, and select others. Won't be a power conference, but will be better than we have now.
Boren isn't serious. He's merely trying to gain some bargaining position for something he wants. Don't read too much into it. This is a game that has been played several times before. And you are only half right. It wouldn't divide the TV payout into smaller portions, but it would divide the playoff and bowl money into smaller slices so he still has a point.
I'd like to see the Big 12 expand simply because to former conference mates likely get the call. That's good for me. But I do think losing the round robin is a hard pill for the non Texas/Oklahoma teams to swallow.
Lets put this to rest once and for all. This is my last post on the subject. I see how TCU has attempted to distance themselves from the "bible school" label. I get your point.
Funny how you never mentioned Bright Divinity and when I did you never acknowledged it. I quickly knew there was a reason so I dug deeper and this is what I found. PRetty obvious why you didn't want to talk about it.
Unfortunately all they did was create another bible focused school on TCU's campus and call it another name. Here is some information that clearly demonstrates that there are students taking bible focused classes and majors on TCU's campus. They even carry TCU student ID cards, can use TCU facilities, and even take TCU classes while they work on their religious education at Brite Divinity School. So I think it's pretty clear in my mind that TCU is in fact a bible school trying to pretend that they aren't. I do appreciate teh discussion as I learned somethign and I dont' think many Big 12 fans know the truth about TCU's religious side. All those who claimed otherwise are clearly hiding the bible college within TCU's campus. The funny part is how they even talk about athletics and show the TCU stadium on the Brite website. And you want to tell me they are not associated, LMAO Here is the info from Brite Divinity School.
http://www.brite.edu/admissions/student-life/campus/
Brite Divinity School and Texas Christian University are independent institutions that share a rich historical relationship and enjoy a shared heritage, affiliation, traditions, and values with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Both institutions recognize the benefits of a supportive and collaborative relationship especially in areas of teaching and scholarly programs.
IMG_0537
Located on the campus of TCU, Brite is surrounded by the vitality and resources of a major university. Students at Brite receive a TCU I.D. card that grants Brite students are encouraged to make use of the TCU Writing Center, where Brite’s Writing Consultant is on staff. They also have ready access to the TCU Health and Counseling Center.full access to every aspect of university life, including a large interdisciplinary library, a state-of-the-art recreational center, world-class lectures, fine arts performances and sporting events.
TCU_stadium
[b]Graduate level courses across a variety of disciplines at TCU are open to Brite students and may, with permission, be taken as electives within a student’s program.With their TCU I.D., students at Brite may receive a Trinity Rail Express Pass, which grants free access to the Fort Worth bus system, the Trinity Rail system, connecting Dallas and Fort Worth, and the DART (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) system in Dallas.
[/b]
Now stop telling me I'm wrong and admit you were wrong. Nobody in their right mind believes you after reading the Brite website. Clearly you were covering up the truth you lying SOB's. Glad we got that straight.
(06-25-2015 09:23 PM)Okielite Wrote: [ -> ]Lets put this to rest once and for all. This is my last post on the subject. I see how TCU has attempted to distance themselves from the "bible school" label. I get your point.
Funny how you never mentioned Bright Divinity and when I did you never acknowledged it. I quickly knew there was a reason so I dug deeper and this is what I found. PRetty obvious why you didn't want to talk about it.
Unfortunately all they did was create another bible focused school on TCU's campus and call it another name. Here is some information that clearly demonstrates that there are students taking bible focused classes and majors on TCU's campus. They even carry TCU student ID cards, can use TCU facilities, and even take TCU classes while they work on their religious education at Brite Divinity School. So I think it's pretty clear in my mind that TCU is in fact a bible school trying to pretend that they aren't. I do appreciate teh discussion as I learned somethign and I dont' think many Big 12 fans know the truth about TCU's religious side. All those who claimed otherwise are clearly hiding the bible college within TCU's campus. The funny part is how they even talk about athletics and show the TCU stadium on the Brite website. And you want to tell me they are not associated, LMAO Here is the info from Brite Divinity School.
http://www.brite.edu/admissions/student-life/campus/
Brite Divinity School and Texas Christian University are independent institutions that share a rich historical relationship and enjoy a shared heritage, affiliation, traditions, and values with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Both institutions recognize the benefits of a supportive and collaborative relationship especially in areas of teaching and scholarly programs.
IMG_0537
Located on the campus of TCU, Brite is surrounded by the vitality and resources of a major university. Students at Brite receive a TCU I.D. card that grants Brite students are encouraged to make use of the TCU Writing Center, where Brite’s Writing Consultant is on staff. They also have ready access to the TCU Health and Counseling Center.full access to every aspect of university life, including a large interdisciplinary library, a state-of-the-art recreational center, world-class lectures, fine arts performances and sporting events.
TCU_stadium
[b]Graduate level courses across a variety of disciplines at TCU are open to Brite students and may, with permission, be taken as electives within a student’s program.With their TCU I.D., students at Brite may receive a Trinity Rail Express Pass, which grants free access to the Fort Worth bus system, the Trinity Rail system, connecting Dallas and Fort Worth, and the DART (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) system in Dallas.
[/b]
Now stop telling me I'm wrong and admit you were wrong. Nobody in their right mind believes you after reading the Brite website. Clearly you were covering up the truth you lying SOB's. Glad we got that straight.
The seminary was separated from the main campus in the same way it has been at Emory, Duke, Princeton, Harvard, and Yale. The mores of the religious do not bind the lectures of the undergraduate and graduate schools of the campus in other disciplines. Little else matters. I told you to stop and you didn't. B.Y.U. allows the religious polity to dictate what may or may not be taught in some other areas of the University. That is why the PAC objected to them. There is no comparison and your argument is ridiculous. You are now officially warned. Stop trolling. Save religious discussions for more appropriate boards and do not derail another thread with spurious arguments about subjects you know little about. JR
(06-25-2015 08:41 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote: [ -> ]Taking what Raider Red said, it kind of makes sense...
So when you look at the B12 it doesn't make sense to common folk why they don't expand. They are the smallest P5, they have the smallest amount of TV sets, they are Texas centric, etc etc etc.
We were told adding two teams will make them further divide the pie. But then it came out that this was a lie and on Tier 1, the contract stipulates that if they add teams, the contract increases per add so nobody loses money.
You see WVA on an island which is pointless.
So you look at the B12 and it just doesn't make sense why they don't expand.
But one option is, UT, OU, OSU, and Tech all know they are bolting and so they are strip mining this thing before they leave.
"Boran at OU said they need to expand" you say. Yeah, but maybe that was just so after they bolt he can save face and say, "I tried".
The Texoma Four bolting and leaving the B12, which is dying for dead at least provides a reasonable reason why they B12 hasn't/isn't expanding and would support Bowlsby's comments about no expansion.
If this happens, we still win (on a smaller scale) because you have to believe the B12 left overs will combine with UC, and select others. Won't be a power conference, but will be better than we have now.
I sometimes wonder if it might just be better to let the schools that want out go so we can get a group that all rows in the same direction. It just seems like the conference is run by morons because we don't' agree on anything. One minute we say 10 is great, next we crown 1 true champion(s), then WVU AD starts talking about expansion, OU President is as well. I simply believe that there is no long term plan for success in the conference. Just a pattern of reacting only when forced to do so and simply doing nothing proactive. We set the trends at one point, no nobody is copying what we are doing for good reason.
(06-25-2015 10:49 AM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 10:37 AM)Okielite Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 10:21 AM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 10:17 AM)Okielite Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 10:12 AM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. But maybe they now regret it? We all make decisions that appear right at the time but then later we re-think them.
Didn't we have a thread recently about the biggest mistake in recent conference realignment and the PAC turning down OU-OSU seemed to be for many on these boards the biggest mistake.
Cheers,
Neil
Seems tome that one big issue with the PAC is how to divide divisions. Right now they split CA and everyone seems happy. But go tell CU that they are in a Texoma division and they will vote no. My guess is that the best way for the PAC to expand is to add 6 teams and keep the existing divisions intact. I suspect their dream scenario is TT, UT, OU, OSU, KU, KSU. Would get them everything from KC to San Antonio along with a bug chunk of Houston.
I think the PAC sees it best as 4 pods/divisions with a 3-2-2-2 scheduling set-up, which is why they will not oppose the championship rules change and will seek 4 Texahoma schools, even if ultimately they need to substitute TCU for Texas if UT is adamant about not going west.
Cheers,
Neil
I don't see the PAC adding a bible school. If they were going to do that BYU would be in the conference instead of Utah IMO. I think other schools like Rice or even Houston would be more appealing to the PAC than TCU.
Back in 2010, weren't they willing to take Baylor? I see Baylor as being much more a bible school than TCU. If they were only willing to take Baylor for UT's sake, then Houston may be the way to go. But TCU seems to me to be the better football add.
Cheers,
Neil
No. In fact when Baylor started playing politics to be included in the the group of Big12 schools headed to the PAC instead of Colorado, the PAC immediately jumped the gun and invited invited Colorado to cut out Baylor. They wanted no part of Baylor.
Then the Texoma move fell apart and the PAC had to invite Utah to get an even number of 12.
(06-25-2015 09:31 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2015 09:23 PM)Okielite Wrote: [ -> ]Lets put this to rest once and for all. This is my last post on the subject. I see how TCU has attempted to distance themselves from the "bible school" label. I get your point.
Funny how you never mentioned Bright Divinity and when I did you never acknowledged it. I quickly knew there was a reason so I dug deeper and this is what I found. PRetty obvious why you didn't want to talk about it.
Unfortunately all they did was create another bible focused school on TCU's campus and call it another name. Here is some information that clearly demonstrates that there are students taking bible focused classes and majors on TCU's campus. They even carry TCU student ID cards, can use TCU facilities, and even take TCU classes while they work on their religious education at Brite Divinity School. So I think it's pretty clear in my mind that TCU is in fact a bible school trying to pretend that they aren't. I do appreciate teh discussion as I learned somethign and I dont' think many Big 12 fans know the truth about TCU's religious side. All those who claimed otherwise are clearly hiding the bible college within TCU's campus. The funny part is how they even talk about athletics and show the TCU stadium on the Brite website. And you want to tell me they are not associated, LMAO Here is the info from Brite Divinity School.
http://www.brite.edu/admissions/student-life/campus/
Brite Divinity School and Texas Christian University are independent institutions that share a rich historical relationship and enjoy a shared heritage, affiliation, traditions, and values with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Both institutions recognize the benefits of a supportive and collaborative relationship especially in areas of teaching and scholarly programs.
IMG_0537
Located on the campus of TCU, Brite is surrounded by the vitality and resources of a major university. Students at Brite receive a TCU I.D. card that grants Brite students are encouraged to make use of the TCU Writing Center, where Brite’s Writing Consultant is on staff. They also have ready access to the TCU Health and Counseling Center.full access to every aspect of university life, including a large interdisciplinary library, a state-of-the-art recreational center, world-class lectures, fine arts performances and sporting events.
TCU_stadium
[b]Graduate level courses across a variety of disciplines at TCU are open to Brite students and may, with permission, be taken as electives within a student’s program.With their TCU I.D., students at Brite may receive a Trinity Rail Express Pass, which grants free access to the Fort Worth bus system, the Trinity Rail system, connecting Dallas and Fort Worth, and the DART (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) system in Dallas.
[/b]
Now stop telling me I'm wrong and admit you were wrong. Nobody in their right mind believes you after reading the Brite website. Clearly you were covering up the truth you lying SOB's. Glad we got that straight.
The seminary was separated from the main campus in the same way it has been at Emory, Duke, Princeton, Harvard, and Yale. The mores of the religious do not bind the lectures of the undergraduate and graduate schools of the campus in other disciplines. Little else matters. I told you to stop and you didn't. B.Y.U. allows the religious polity to dictate what may or may not be taught in some other areas of the University. That is why the PAC objected to them. There is no comparison and your argument is ridiculous. You are now officially warned. Stop trolling. Save religious discussions for more appropriate boards and do not derail another thread with spurious arguments about subjects you know little about. JR
Warning?? for what? LAffin. Then go ahead and ban me. I havent' done anything other than embarrass a few people including yourself. It takes more than one person to argue so go ahead and band the other people who continued arguing as well, including yourself. I have not broken any forum rules.
Gotta admit, he has provided nothing but factual material even though I don't agree that TCU is a bible school. He could prove that SMU is part of the Vatican as most of our students are Catholic,.