(04-24-2014 07:53 AM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]So, those of us that told everyone they needed to calm down back at the time JJ was hired can pat themselves on the back? :)
You most certainly can. You bet on the right horse to win -- and it won impressively.
As to whether the "winners" want to persist in taunting their brethren fans holding the losing tickets in this "I-told-you-so contest" is a question for each of us to answer for ourselves.
(04-24-2014 07:58 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2014 07:53 AM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]So, those of us that told everyone they needed to calm down back at the time JJ was hired can pat themselves on the back? :)
You most certainly can. You bet on the right horse to win -- and it won impressively.
As to whether the "winners" want to persist in taunting their brethren fans holding the losing tickets in this "I-told-you-so contest" is a question for each of us to answer for ourselves.
I hope they did bet on the right horse, but it is a little early to spike the football IMO. He is off to a much better than expected start... now lets win some games, raise the ceiling, and take it to the next step.
(04-24-2014 07:57 AM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]I know I shouldn't do this, but here goes............
After 14 months or so my memory isn't what it used to be. What did WS actually lie about? Shouldn't he have been able to conduct the search to find the best candidate in his estimation? Should he have been so transparent in his search as to tell everyone what his plan was and then when it didn't play out as such, he would have had to scramble to get the fan base to rally around the next choice. Many would have wanted his head on a platter had he come out and said I want an "old, retread" coach who knows basketball but may not be able to connect to today's players. I think some of you "fans" are a little too sensitive or have a sense of entitlement that just doesn't exist. The man did the job that he was hired to do. I would think the bottom line would be did he hire a coach that could right the ship(wreck). Just my .02
The danger in my offering an answer to this question is that I need to qualify right up front that (i) I am not an AD, (ii) I don't pretend to be qualified for the job of AD, (iii) my views are only that of a fan and small-time contributor to a school that I didn't even attend and (iv) my views are mine and mine alone.
With that said, here goes.
In the wake of the Coach Taylor departure, and given the disarray of our program, most (but not all) of which was the result of Coach Taylor's spectacular flame out, AD Selig had a very troubled program on his hand. But that trouble was also an opportunity.
In addressing his fan base, who had shown remarkable resilience after the problems of the 2012-2103 season, AD Selig had any number of options as to how best to proceed. What he chose was to give us a sales pitch -- and a promise for a "WOW" factor coach who would immediately get the program back to a winning record. He even described with specificity the attributes he was seeking.
Coach Jones, in hindsight, has done exactly what was needed. As a fan, I couldn't be happier. But he was not the "WOW" factor promised by our AD. He was not anything close to the specific description of what WS told us would be the profile of out next coach. And, worst of all, Coach Jones came with a history that was hauntingly reminiscent of some of the problems that we had just experienced with Coach Taylor.
Did it matter in the end? Clearly not. Coach Jones has done a spectacular job -- in just one season!
But if you are prepared to forgive AD Selig for the hash that he made of the hiring process, then you are a much more forgiving person than I am. I expect professional behavior and up-front statements from the professionals that I hire.
Just for some historical reference. Dean Smith was once hung in effigy. Mike Krzyzewski was once targeted for ouster by a group of Duke fans because of his early record.
I too was unhappy with the hiring of Jeff Jones. Today I find myself very pleased with his first effort as our coach. But just as I received some A's in college I also received some lowers grades too. So I will not be issuing any apologies for my original opinion until his transcript has been made more complete. For the moment though, kudos to the coach and bad on me for doubting him!
I never had an issue with those who criticized Selig for the manner in which he layed out the search. I will say if the info I was told, not from someone in the AD but from a person who would know inside details, is correct, I better understand why things turned out the way they did.
What I thought was absurd are the following: That Selig was going to hire Jone all the while because they were buddies and that everything else was a smoke screen. Question: Why would he do that when it's his job and reputation on the line with the performance of the department? It makes no sense to me. Life isn't black and white; things happen that change plans and force re-evaluations of goals.
On Jones, people got way too personal here. He'll be a failure here because a) he's too old, b) he's fat, c) he won't be able to relate to today's players, d) he had an issue 20 years ago that should have negated him replacing someone who had a different issue the last couple of years. Some here got all carried away by VCU envy; that's right, a young coach who pushed their program ahead of ours and left us gasping to catch up (and we will). It was all very knee jerk and, to me, it showed a sad lack of class.
I don't care whether anyone comes here to apologize or not. I doubt Jones is wasting any time poring over these posts. I didn't go to ODU but I support the program (110% club) because I like the people there I've met, I love attending games and seeing my local school do well and because I want to see the day when the "little guy" wrestles its way into the big circle. That's going to take time and I'm willing to enjoy the trip there; others think it should be done with the snap of fingers. I totally don't get that.
(04-24-2014 07:58 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]As to whether the "winners" want to persist in taunting their brethren fans holding the losing tickets in this "I-told-you-so contest" is a question for each of us to answer for ourselves.
I wasn't taunting, and I did not start this thread patting myself on the back. The comment was tongue in cheek. We should all be happy. We all get the benefit when ODU wins, not just those that were "right".
(04-24-2014 08:22 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]I never had an issue with those who criticized Selig for the manner in which he layed out the search. I will say if the info I was told, not from someone in the AD but from a person who would know inside details, is correct, I better understand why things turned out the way they did.
What I thought was absurd are the following: That Selig was going to hire Jone all the while because they were buddies and that everything else was a smoke screen. Question: Why would he do that when it's his job and reputation on the line with the performance of the department? It makes no sense to me. Life isn't black and white; things happen that change plans and force re-evaluations of goals.
On Jones, people got way too personal here. He'll be a failure here because a) he's too old, b) he's fat, c) he won't be able to relate to today's players, d) he had an issue 20 years ago that should have negated him replacing someone who had a different issue the last couple of years. Some here got all carried away by VCU envy; that's right, a young coach who pushed their program ahead of ours and left us gasping to catch up (and we will). It was all very knee jerk and, to me, it showed a sad lack of class.
I don't care whether anyone comes here to apologize or not. I doubt Jones is wasting any time poring over these posts. I didn't go to ODU but I support the program (110% club) because I like the people there I've met, I love attending games and seeing my local school do well and because I want to see the day when the "little guy" wrestles its way into the big circle. That's going to take time and I'm willing to enjoy the trip there; others think it should be done with the snap of fingers. I totally don't get that.
A coworker told me back in 2011, a UVA guy, that WS wanted to hire JJ. Unfortunately the CAAZone didn't archive the ODU stuff, but I did find this conversation from MonarchNation back in 2011. Ironically, the UVA guy sold me on Jones and I was the one pumping him up while some of the people that jumped on board with him early were trashing him.
http://www.monarchfans.com/forum/viewtop...s&start=12
Quote: EverRespect » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:27 pm
Just a thought if we have to replace Blaine Taylor.
What about Jeff Jones?
He has ties to Wood via UVA and was looked at for the Western Kentucky job when it came up. He recruits well, maybe a good fit? No?
Quote:EverRespect » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:06 am
My pick is still Jeff Jones. Wojo is also an interesting choice, though I doubt he would be here very long. VCU has been successful thus far playing a stepping stone role, but I think stability is better in the long run.
Quote: Monarchman1 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:56 am
Jeff Jones...please...he couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. I hope Wood realizes the importance of keeping BT. I say he stays.
Quote:ODU True Blue » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:32 pm
Would you really want the type of person that Jones' recruited at UVA here? No way. I am not into basketball players cutting people up. Also, not interested in a scandal with the BB coach banging the hired help. No thanks. Keep Jeff Jones out of here. It wasn't his won loss record that was his undoing at UVA it was who he was doing that got him canned.
(04-24-2014 08:23 AM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2014 07:58 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]As to whether the "winners" want to persist in taunting their brethren fans holding the losing tickets in this "I-told-you-so contest" is a question for each of us to answer for ourselves.
I wasn't taunting, and I did not start this thread patting myself on the back. The comment was tongue in cheek. We should all be happy. We all get the benefit when ODU wins, not just those that were "right".
I didn't at all take it that way, and in hindsight the word "taunting" was way too strong. I should have said "make an issue of", or something equally vague.
In any event, my apologies to anyone who got the impression that I was sore with them. I am not.
My intention in commenting on this thread was simply to address what I consider to have been a bit of second guessing regarding my previous doubts about Coach Jones (which I do not consider to have been "a little odd", to quote Fatalisk, at least not given the clumsy circumstances in which AD Selig introduced Coach Jones to the ODU community).
The funniest part of that is the "JJ can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag". It's clear that JJ can coach his butt off.
That's why we post on the internet, and others get paid lots of $$$ to make those decisions.
Ever, that's very interesting and, ironically, just the opposite of what I heard about WS always wanting to hire Jeff. (sigh)
(04-24-2014 06:48 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2014 11:49 PM)Fatalisk Wrote: [ -> ]I have never stated my opinion on the hire, but I thought most here reacted very emotionally and unfairly. I thought it was a little odd how we reacted as a whole when he was hired. I think this team will be good if he gets talent to work with. His pre-game and in-game coaching abilities don't worry me.
That the initial reactions to Coach Jones' hiring were emotional and (in hindsight) ultimately wrong is pretty much the entire point of this thread. Note that the majority of comments being offered are in the nature of hat-in-hand acknowledgments from those who were vocally opposed to the hiring of Coach Jones. It takes a big man (or woman) to publicly admit that you were wrong. This thread speaks highly of our many loyal ODU fans -- who can admit they were wrong in their initial views on the hiring of Coach Jones.
It is a different question entirely as to whether those initial views were unfair. My personal view is that the adverse reactions to Coach Jones hiring was a very fair and completely understandable reaction by a fan base that had just been flat-out lied to by its AD (and, yes, I use that word advisedly). It takes a big man to apologize. The biggest apology in this scenario is owed by Wood Selig, who unfortunately appears to me to be something of a little man.
Finally, that you find it all a little odd that ODU fans cared enough to speak out about the hiring of Coach Jones is (at least in my view) kind of pointless.
Okay. You were wrong (hopefully) and acted like a douchebag. It was definitely unfair to give Jones the welcome he received. LOL at it taking a big man to admit being wrong on this forum. I said it was a little odd how fans reacted. I never said it was odd that fans care.
LINK
(04-24-2014 06:48 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]It's akin to being told by someone that they never would have bet on the horse you just lost money on, after the race is already over. But thanks for sharing.
No it's not. I wasn't thrilled with the hire either; but I never commented on that. I made comments concerned with our reaction back then. Especially about bashing Jones' personal background.
LINK
(04-23-2014 07:30 AM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2014 06:08 AM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2014 09:02 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Jones was a great coach even before he came to ODU. I had no doubt he could turn the program around. I commend those who gave their support from day one.
A lot of people on this board didn't want to give the guy a chance because they thought there were better candidates in the pool. And by better I mean younger, more attractive (ie playing style and sideline antics) coaches in the pool. When reality there wasn't. Was Andy Enfeld originally a canidate before USC came and swooped him up? Yes. But what a lot of people don't understand is the guys who made up dunk city weren't even his recruits. So while he was able to win, he didn't even recruit those guys. Look at what FGCU did this year... Way too much talent on that team (sarcasm alert).
People looked at Jeff and saw old white man. Hell he was even referred to as a retread. What people didn't look at is how he assesmbled his staff. Do you think that staff occurred by chance? Jeff knows basketball. Jeff knows how to win games. And Jeff knows how to get kids and parents to come to odu.
Jeff took a crappy product and turned it around in one year. That's not luck that's skill. And while it's mighty big (again sarcasm) of people to admit they were wrong, it's not even necessary because Jeff didn't take the odu job to turn naysayers into believers of his coaching ability. He took it to turn a dying program into a solid mid major
Bingo!!! Fans tend to think they know more than the professionals.. Especially when its a message board..you can fling a buch crap out and the results on the scoreboard will either support or refute your position.. That's why the ebb and flow of any thread had its naysayer domination and then at times the rose colored folks had their fun.. It's a 50/50 position .. Instead the more level headed folks look at their Monarchs as their team through thick and thin and continually support them regardless of the scoreboard.. In my mind they are always on target because your support never fails and thus you are/were always right in supporting the program...even if you were shamed for accepting mediocrity ... I always scratched my head when some would rather us lose to support their position rather than support the program irregardless.. Using terms such as the jury's still out or I will wait until we win championships before I will cast my judgement is ridiculous ..
I agree 100% with both comments!
(04-24-2014 08:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2014 07:57 AM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]I know I shouldn't do this, but here goes............
After 14 months or so my memory isn't what it used to be. What did WS actually lie about? Shouldn't he have been able to conduct the search to find the best candidate in his estimation? Should he have been so transparent in his search as to tell everyone what his plan was and then when it didn't play out as such, he would have had to scramble to get the fan base to rally around the next choice. Many would have wanted his head on a platter had he come out and said I want an "old, retread" coach who knows basketball but may not be able to connect to today's players. I think some of you "fans" are a little too sensitive or have a sense of entitlement that just doesn't exist. The man did the job that he was hired to do. I would think the bottom line would be did he hire a coach that could right the ship(wreck). Just my .02
The danger in my offering an answer to this question is that I need to qualify right up front that (i) I am not an AD, (ii) I don't pretend to be qualified for the job of AD, (iii) my views are only that of a fan and small-time contributor to a school that I didn't even attend and (iv) my views are mine and mine alone.
With that said, here goes.
In the wake of the Coach Taylor departure, and given the disarray of our program, most (but not all) of which was the result of Coach Taylor's spectacular flame out, AD Selig had a very troubled program on his hand. But that trouble was also an opportunity.
In addressing his fan base, who had shown remarkable resilience after the problems of the 2012-2103 season, AD Selig had any number of options as to how best to proceed. What he chose was to give us a sales pitch -- and a promise for a "WOW" factor coach who would immediately get the program back to a winning record. He even described with specificity the attributes he was seeking.
Before I add my thoughts on Wood Selig, I appreciat the letter which was Smitty's op, it was well written. My reaction to the Jeff Jones hire was mildly negative for about a half hour, but then I gave it some thought and came to my conclusion that he seemed like a solid hire for us.
Regarding Wood Selig and his handling of the hire, I think that he thought that Andy Enfield was close to a done deal when he made the "WOW" factor comments in reference to him. Selig, like most of us, did not foresee FGCU's unpredictable and exciting run going much further and he overplayed his hand. IMO Selig was more guilty of miscalculation and caving in to pressure than he was of dishonesty.
I know many here are not fans of Mr. Selig, but I am. In my exploration of various message boards of other teams and conferences it seems like the AD is usually a very convenient punching bag for fans, and IMO Wood Selig has been far from immune from this. As an example, early in this baseball season some were questioning Selig's hiring of Coach Finwood as being a poor choice (to be fair, looking back it was only one or two comments,) and seemed ready to lay blame at his feet for that, which is fine as he did make the hire, however, I don't recall a single post remarking what a great hire Finwood actually was or giving Selig credit for it (sorry ODU drunkard, I missed yours.) I have also not seen a bunch of credit going Selig's way as regard to our football program's success and some of the scheduling coups he has pulled off (most notably with VT.) I have however seen it mentioned several times that any success ODU enjoys is in spite of Selig rather than because of him and I think that is a very unfair statement at best. While I think he has made several missteps in regard to his communications with fans and the press, I also think he acts in the best interest of ODU athletics.
I will add preemtively that I am neither a family member, friend, or neighbor of Wood Selig.
* NOTE despite it being attached to a q oute by you AdoptedMonarch, the above rant was not directed at you or any other poster, merely my observations.
Terrific post, Painted. To me, there's another part of this that disturbs people. Wood has his hand out constantly, a far different approach than the previous AD. I know I was a bit taken aback at how constant the money-generating machine is at work over there, then I thought about how much it costs to be successful -- hell, just to compete. We don't have a huge donor base, or a cadre of people with millions to throw around who are firmly invested in ODU sports. Like me, we give what we can. That makes everyone's job overt there more challenging, especially when you have a president, AD and football coach with major, verbalized aspirations. It makes Wood come off as greedy and money-hungry; in reality, he's doing what he has to to make us competitive and moving forward.
(04-24-2014 10:23 AM)paintedblue Wrote: [ -> ]I know many here are not fans of Mr. Selig, but I am. In my exploration of various message boards of other teams and conferences it seems like the AD is usually a very convenient punching bag for fans, and IMO Wood Selig has been far from immune from this. As an example, early in this baseball season some were questioning Selig's hiring of Coach Finwood as being a poor choice (to be fair, looking back it was only one or two comments,) and seemed ready to lay blame at his feet for that, which is fine as he did make the hire, however, I don't recall a single post remarking what a great hire Finwood actually was or giving Selig credit for it (sorry ODU drunkard, I missed yours.) I have also not seen a bunch of credit going Selig's way as regard to our football program's success and some of the scheduling coups he has pulled off (most notably with VT.) I have however seen it mentioned several times that any success ODU enjoys is in spite of Selig rather than because of him and I think that is a very unfair statement at best. While I think he has made several missteps in regard to his communications with fans and the press, I also think he acts in the best interest of ODU athletics.
jumpshooter is right. These are all excellent points. pb.
I suppose it comes down to a matter of perception. You see the many challenges that AD Selig faces, and are willing to forgive any mis-steps so long as success is the end result. That's a perfectly acceptable standard, and one which would make for a more pleasant world if that were the standard universally applied to all of us. But of course it is not.
I see a highly paid professional, one who is not only responsible for the success of the program but for doing it right. In some contexts, it is fine to simply be lucky. In the professional world, luck is not enough. You are also expected to be good at what you do.
Perhaps AD Selig truly is very good at what he does. I have no first-hand knowledge, and I am willing to defer to you and jumpshooter on this point since it sounds as if you both do. But based solely on the one time when I was actually paying attention -- the hiring of Coach Jones and his introduction to a wounded and needy fanbase -- I can't say that I was left with a high degree of confidence.
And that is all I will have to say on the subject, acknowledged "d-bag" that I apparently am (per Fatalisk).
(04-24-2014 08:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2014 07:57 AM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]I know I shouldn't do this, but here goes............
After 14 months or so my memory isn't what it used to be. What did WS actually lie about? Shouldn't he have been able to conduct the search to find the best candidate in his estimation? Should he have been so transparent in his search as to tell everyone what his plan was and then when it didn't play out as such, he would have had to scramble to get the fan base to rally around the next choice. Many would have wanted his head on a platter had he come out and said I want an "old, retread" coach who knows basketball but may not be able to connect to today's players. I think some of you "fans" are a little too sensitive or have a sense of entitlement that just doesn't exist. The man did the job that he was hired to do. I would think the bottom line would be did he hire a coach that could right the ship(wreck). Just my .02
The danger in my offering an answer to this question is that I need to qualify right up front that (i) I am not an AD, (ii) I don't pretend to be qualified for the job of AD, (iii) my views are only that of a fan and small-time contributor to a school that I didn't even attend and (iv) my views are mine and mine alone.
With that said, here goes.
In the wake of the Coach Taylor departure, and given the disarray of our program, most (but not all) of which was the result of Coach Taylor's spectacular flame out, AD Selig had a very troubled program on his hand. But that trouble was also an opportunity.
In addressing his fan base, who had shown remarkable resilience after the problems of the 2012-2103 season, AD Selig had any number of options as to how best to proceed. What he chose was to give us a sales pitch -- and a promise for a "WOW" factor coach who would immediately get the program back to a winning record. He even described with specificity the attributes he was seeking.
Coach Jones, in hindsight, has done exactly what was needed. As a fan, I couldn't be happier. But he was not the "WOW" factor promised by our AD. He was not anything close to the specific description of what WS told us would be the profile of out next coach. And, worst of all, Coach Jones came with a history that was hauntingly reminiscent of some of the problems that we had just experienced with Coach Taylor.
Did it matter in the end? Clearly not. Coach Jones has done a spectacular job -- in just one season!
But if you are prepared to forgive AD Selig for the hash that he made of the hiring process, then you are a much more forgiving person than I am. I expect professional behavior and up-front statements from the professionals that I hire.
Well stated. I guess my question is how does one know that he didn't go after the "wow" hire but couldn't land said coach then decided on a solid hire that he believed in. How do we know he lied?
Can we try and clear up one more, IMO, misconception? That is that it was Wood who said he wanted to be the "face of the program." It wasn't. It was Ed Miller, in light of Taylor being gone, Wendy being gone, who wrote in VP something to the effect that Wood was now clearly the face of the program. I never agreed with that statement, never saw anything to lead me to believe that that was Wood's goal. It was the clever turn of a phrase, and some here took it and ran to portray him as an ego-mainac. I believe that was short-sighted.
The story I heard from someone I trust is that Enfield was the first guy. Would have been a WOW hire, I guess. They were close, then So Cal came along. There were a couple of assistant coaches in line for vetting next and, during that process, it was discovered that serious personal, ongoing problems were discovered. Then a member of the Board suggested taking a look at Jones, Gilmore, I believe. Her son played for him and loved him. Jones interviewed with the committee and knocked it out of the park. End of my (so-called) knowledge
WS seems to truly enjoy being AD here at ODU. With that being said, I just don't get why he would intentionally lie to the fan base and create a storm when he didn't need to. What a great thread for creating dialogue.
P.S. I believe JJ has done an outstanding job in selecting a staff, not just the assistant coaches. He also did an amazing job of keeping players here despite the trying times (kids today will leave at the 1st sign of trouble, both personally or team wise).
(04-24-2014 11:02 AM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2014 08:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2014 07:57 AM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]I know I shouldn't do this, but here goes............
After 14 months or so my memory isn't what it used to be. What did WS actually lie about? Shouldn't he have been able to conduct the search to find the best candidate in his estimation? Should he have been so transparent in his search as to tell everyone what his plan was and then when it didn't play out as such, he would have had to scramble to get the fan base to rally around the next choice. Many would have wanted his head on a platter had he come out and said I want an "old, retread" coach who knows basketball but may not be able to connect to today's players. I think some of you "fans" are a little too sensitive or have a sense of entitlement that just doesn't exist. The man did the job that he was hired to do. I would think the bottom line would be did he hire a coach that could right the ship(wreck). Just my .02
The danger in my offering an answer to this question is that I need to qualify right up front that (i) I am not an AD, (ii) I don't pretend to be qualified for the job of AD, (iii) my views are only that of a fan and small-time contributor to a school that I didn't even attend and (iv) my views are mine and mine alone.
With that said, here goes.
In the wake of the Coach Taylor departure, and given the disarray of our program, most (but not all) of which was the result of Coach Taylor's spectacular flame out, AD Selig had a very troubled program on his hand. But that trouble was also an opportunity.
In addressing his fan base, who had shown remarkable resilience after the problems of the 2012-2103 season, AD Selig had any number of options as to how best to proceed. What he chose was to give us a sales pitch -- and a promise for a "WOW" factor coach who would immediately get the program back to a winning record. He even described with specificity the attributes he was seeking.
Coach Jones, in hindsight, has done exactly what was needed. As a fan, I couldn't be happier. But he was not the "WOW" factor promised by our AD. He was not anything close to the specific description of what WS told us would be the profile of out next coach. And, worst of all, Coach Jones came with a history that was hauntingly reminiscent of some of the problems that we had just experienced with Coach Taylor.
Did it matter in the end? Clearly not. Coach Jones has done a spectacular job -- in just one season!
But if you are prepared to forgive AD Selig for the hash that he made of the hiring process, then you are a much more forgiving person than I am. I expect professional behavior and up-front statements from the professionals that I hire.
Well stated. I guess my question is how does one know that he didn't go after the "wow" hire but couldn't land said coach then decided on a solid hire that he believed in. How do we know he lied?
Because one of the wow factor hires just took the UNCW job...pretty sure we could have gotten him.
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