(04-23-2014 06:08 AM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2014 09:02 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Jones was a great coach even before he came to ODU. I had no doubt he could turn the program around. I commend those who gave their support from day one.
A lot of people on this board didn't want to give the guy a chance because they thought there were better candidates in the pool. And by better I mean younger, more attractive (ie playing style and sideline antics) coaches in the pool. When reality there wasn't. Was Andy Enfeld originally a canidate before USC came and swooped him up? Yes. But what a lot of people don't understand is the guys who made up dunk city weren't even his recruits. So while he was able to win, he didn't even recruit those guys. Look at what FGCU did this year... Way too much talent on that team (sarcasm alert).
People looked at Jeff and saw old white man. Hell he was even referred to as a retread. What people didn't look at is how he assesmbled his staff. Do you think that staff occurred by chance? Jeff knows basketball. Jeff knows how to win games. And Jeff knows how to get kids and parents to come to odu.
Jeff took a crappy product and turned it around in one year. That's not luck that's skill. And while it's mighty big (again sarcasm) of people to admit they were wrong, it's not even necessary because Jeff didn't take the odu job to turn naysayers into believers of his coaching ability. He took it to turn a dying program into a solid mid major
I don't disagree with any of that. It was very difficult to predict, however, how Jones would pan out here. We knew he was a good basketball mind, but ODU is a different game than any of his experience. He was not a stellar recruiter at American. Then again, who would be? He showed promise at UVA, which has a limitless ceiling, but also left it a mess. Took them 20 years and many coaches to dig out of that hole.
Also agree with the football prediction. I am very concerned moving forward and hope Bentley can emerge as the heir apparent. We need to score 40+ points to win games and that is a lofty expectation for a QB. We know TH can do it with a veteran line, but he doesn't have that luxury this year. Excited to see what he can do, but anxious in the same sense.
(04-23-2014 06:08 AM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2014 09:02 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Jones was a great coach even before he came to ODU. I had no doubt he could turn the program around. I commend those who gave their support from day one.
A lot of people on this board didn't want to give the guy a chance because they thought there were better candidates in the pool. And by better I mean younger, more attractive (ie playing style and sideline antics) coaches in the pool. When reality there wasn't. Was Andy Enfeld originally a canidate before USC came and swooped him up? Yes. But what a lot of people don't understand is the guys who made up dunk city weren't even his recruits. So while he was able to win, he didn't even recruit those guys. Look at what FGCU did this year... Way too much talent on that team (sarcasm alert).
People looked at Jeff and saw old white man. Hell he was even referred to as a retread. What people didn't look at is how he assesmbled his staff. Do you think that staff occurred by chance? Jeff knows basketball. Jeff knows how to win games. And Jeff knows how to get kids and parents to come to odu.
Jeff took a crappy product and turned it around in one year. That's not luck that's skill. And while it's mighty big (again sarcasm) of people to admit they were wrong, it's not even necessary because Jeff didn't take the odu job to turn naysayers into believers of his coaching ability. He took it to turn a dying program into a solid mid major
Bingo!!! Fans tend to think they know more than the professionals.. Especially when its a message board..you can fling a buch crap out and the results on the scoreboard will either support or refute your position.. That's why the ebb and flow of any thread had its naysayer domination and then at times the rose colored folks had their fun.. It's a 50/50 position .. Instead the more level headed folks look at their Monarchs as their team through thick and thin and continually support them regardless of the scoreboard.. In my mind they are always on target because your support never fails and thus you are/were always right in supporting the program...even if you were shamed for accepting mediocrity ... I always scratched my head when some would rather us lose to support their position rather than support the program irregardless.. Using terms such as the jury's still out or I will wait until we win championships before I will cast my judgement is ridiculous ..
The man had a very good first year at ODU when compared with the prior year's results. He has now added a front line that should be able to even up an existing deficiency. However the best improvement he has made at ODU IMO is the move he made in his first few months of arrival--assembling a staff designed to both recruit, mentor and coach. No knock at anyone in the past specifically, but this bench is the real deal.
My view is this is by far the best (but not highest level) job Jeff Jones has ever had and he is taking its potential very seriously.
(04-23-2014 07:59 AM)FearTheLion Wrote: [ -> ]The man had a very good first year at ODU when compared with the prior year's results. He has now added a front line that should be able to even up an existing deficiency. However the best improvement he has made at ODU IMO is the move he made in his first few months of arrival--assembling a staff designed to both recruit, mentor and coach. No knock at anyone in the past specifically, but this bench is the real deal.
My view is this is by far the [b]best (but not highest level) job Jeff Jones has ever had and he is taking its potential very seriously.[/b]
Indeed. This says it all.
(04-23-2014 07:30 AM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2014 06:08 AM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2014 09:02 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Jones was a great coach even before he came to ODU. I had no doubt he could turn the program around. I commend those who gave their support from day one.
A lot of people on this board didn't want to give the guy a chance because they thought there were better candidates in the pool. And by better I mean younger, more attractive (ie playing style and sideline antics) coaches in the pool. When reality there wasn't. Was Andy Enfeld originally a canidate before USC came and swooped him up? Yes. But what a lot of people don't understand is the guys who made up dunk city weren't even his recruits. So while he was able to win, he didn't even recruit those guys. Look at what FGCU did this year... Way too much talent on that team (sarcasm alert).
People looked at Jeff and saw old white man. Hell he was even referred to as a retread. What people didn't look at is how he assesmbled his staff. Do you think that staff occurred by chance? Jeff knows basketball. Jeff knows how to win games. And Jeff knows how to get kids and parents to come to odu.
Jeff took a crappy product and turned it around in one year. That's not luck that's skill. And while it's mighty big (again sarcasm) of people to admit they were wrong, it's not even necessary because Jeff didn't take the odu job to turn naysayers into believers of his coaching ability. He took it to turn a dying program into a solid mid major
Bingo!!! Fans tend to think they know more than the professionals.. Especially when its a message board..you can fling a buch crap out and the results on the scoreboard will either support or refute your position.. That's why the ebb and flow of any thread had its naysayer domination and then at times the rose colored folks had their fun.. It's a 50/50 position .. Instead the more level headed folks look at their Monarchs as their team through thick and thin and continually support them regardless of the scoreboard.. In my mind they are always on target because your support never fails and thus you are/were always right in supporting the program...even if you were shamed for accepting mediocrity ... I always scratched my head when some would rather us lose to support their position rather than support the program irregardless.. Using terms such as the jury's still out or I will wait until we win championships before I will cast my judgement is ridiculous ..
It works both ways. The blind support many have also allowed the 3-year slow moving train wreck that was Blaine Taylor to happen. Nobody wanted us to lose to support our position, only beating the drums for change sooner rather than later. Am I the only one that noticed WS never extended Blaine's contract after the Butler game as the Pilot reported they were going to do (or was it after the Baylor game)? The "naysayers" weren't the only ones that saw it coming. Of course none of this has anything to do with Jones, but it is ok to be skeptical and critical. In fact, it is necessary with any administration, be it athletic, political, or business. It's usually the media's job, but Molinaro is the only local guy that will do it and his criticism is more ODU hate than intelligent analysis.
This coaching combo of Jones and Stith should work. I wasn't against the hiring of Jeff, the thing i didn't want was some vcu coach here. Jones and Stith are like Lennon and McCartney. They should write great songs. Play on.
(04-23-2014 07:20 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree with any of that. It was very difficult to predict, however, how Jones would pan out here. We knew he was a good basketball mind, but ODU is a different game than any of his experience. He was not a stellar recruiter at American. Then again, who would be? He showed promise at UVA, which has a limitless ceiling, but also left it a mess. Took them 20 years and many coaches to dig out of that hole.
Also agree with the football prediction. I am very concerned moving forward and hope Bentley can emerge as the heir apparent. We need to score 40+ points to win games and that is a lofty expectation for a QB. We know TH can do it with a veteran line, but he doesn't have that luxury this year. Excited to see what he can do, but anxious in the same sense.
I've seen this criticism stated repeatedly on the board and it's unfair IMO. Yes, he left a mess at UVA. However, the hires they made after he left dug a bigger hole. Gillen got them to the NCAA tourney 3 years after Jones resigned. He then turned that tourney trip into nothing but repeated NIT invites. The team was said to be out of control and Gillen's relaxed demeanor didn't help. How is that on Jones? Leitao brought them to the dance in his second year, then the players got tired of listening to him and they returned to mediocrity. How is that on Jones?
15 years of a mediocrity is not on one man, that's an issue with bad hires and the program as a whole.
(04-23-2014 06:15 AM)GO_MONARKS Wrote: [ -> ]P.S.S.
BEAT VCU!!!
^ This. Even Blaine could handle that once a year.
The jury is out for at least 1 more if not 2 more seasons.
"I don't disagree with any of that. It was very difficult to predict, however, how Jones would pan out here. We knew he was a good basketball mind, but ODU is a different game than any of his experience. He was not a stellar recruiter at American. Then again, who would be? He showed promise at UVA, which has a limitless ceiling, but also left it a mess. Took them 20 years and many coaches to dig out of that hole."
Hmmm, some facts about UVA basketball: Holland took UVA to 9 NCAAs, 4 NITs. Jones, his successor, went to 5 NCAAs, 1 NIT. His successor, Pete Gillen, went to 4 NITs and 1 NCAA, Leitao 1 of each and Bennett now 2 NCAAS and 1 NIT. IMO it is inaccurate and revisionist history to say it took UVA 20 years to dig out of a hole Jones left it in when we're talking 6 NITs and 4 NCAAs since he left. It's a program with a history of steep declines: Jones final year there 11-19; Gillen's 14-15; Leitao's 10-18. . . . if it took him only one year to get an ODU program headed in the right direction after the disaster that was Blaine at the end, I'm not buying that it took UVA 20 years post Jones, not with those number of postseason appearances.
Some think UVa was a basketball power school before Terry Holland and Jeff Jones got there. They only had one post-season appearance from 1905 to 1975.
Jeff Jones was either a player or coach at UVa for 12 of their 18 NCAA appearances.
Nice letter Smitty. Well put.
We continue to move in the right direction in ODUMBB after a really dark period. I have no reason to not believe brighter days are ahead and maybe even heights we have, to date, not reached. I'm excited and I am,
Proud To Be A Monarch!
(04-23-2014 08:28 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]"I don't disagree with any of that. It was very difficult to predict, however, how Jones would pan out here. We knew he was a good basketball mind, but ODU is a different game than any of his experience. He was not a stellar recruiter at American. Then again, who would be? He showed promise at UVA, which has a limitless ceiling, but also left it a mess. Took them 20 years and many coaches to dig out of that hole."
Hmmm, some facts about UVA basketball: Holland took UVA to 9 NCAAs, 4 NITs. Jones, his successor, went to 5 NCAAs, 1 NIT. His successor, Pete Gillen, went to 4 NITs and 1 NCAA, Leitao 1 of each and Bennett now 2 NCAAS and 1 NIT. IMO it is inaccurate and revisionist history to say it took UVA 20 years to dig out of a hole Jones left it in when we're talking 6 NITs and 4 NCAAs since he left. It's a program with a history of steep declines: Jones final year there 11-19; Gillen's 14-15; Leitao's 10-18. . . . if it took him only one year to get an ODU program headed in the right direction after the disaster that was Blaine at the end, I'm not buying that it took UVA 20 years post Jones, not with those number of postseason appearances.
Fine, don't buy it. I don't count NITs for an ACC team and I don't count Bennett since he is the one that actually appears to have turned it around. UVA won 21 tournament games from '81 to '95 and only 1 from '96 to '14. Really has nothing to do with anything anyway. As I said, plenty of blame to go around aside from Jones, who was very young at the time. Let's hope he gets us back as a top 50 staple.
Oh, I see. It's only the facts you make up in your head that matter . . . and I must have missed the post where you said there was plenty of blame to go around, but I'll take your word for it . . . Bottom line here is that we're a work in progress, not fully back and with some questions about how all of these new pieces are gonna mesh. You're not ready to sing Kumbaya (sp?) and offer peace to someone who did nothing but apply for a job and get it and do very well his first year. Whatever.
I have never stated my opinion on the hire, but I thought most here reacted very emotionally and unfairly. I thought it was a little odd how we reacted as a whole when he was hired. I think this team will be good if he gets talent to work with. His pre-game and in-game coaching abilities don't worry me.
(04-23-2014 11:49 PM)Fatalisk Wrote: [ -> ]I have never stated my opinion on the hire, but I thought most here reacted very emotionally and unfairly. I thought it was a little odd how we reacted as a whole when he was hired. I think this team will be good if he gets talent to work with. His pre-game and in-game coaching abilities don't worry me.
That the initial reactions to Coach Jones' hiring were
emotional and (in hindsight) ultimately wrong is pretty much the entire point of this thread. Note that the majority of comments being offered are in the nature of hat-in-hand acknowledgments from those who were vocally opposed to the hiring of Coach Jones. It takes a big man (or woman) to publicly admit that you were wrong. This thread speaks highly of our many loyal ODU fans -- who can admit they were wrong in their initial views on the hiring of Coach Jones.
It is a different question entirely as to whether those initial views were
unfair. My personal view is that the adverse reactions to Coach Jones hiring was a very fair and completely understandable reaction by a fan base that had just been flat-out lied to by its AD (and, yes, I use that word advisedly). It takes a big man to apologize. The biggest apology in this scenario is owed by Wood Selig, who unfortunately appears to me to be something of a little man.
Finally, that you find it all a
little odd that ODU fans cared enough to speak out about the hiring of Coach Jones is (at least in my view) kind of pointless. It's akin to being told by someone that they never would have bet on the horse you just lost money on, after the race is already over. But thanks for sharing.
So, those of us that told everyone they needed to calm down back at the time JJ was hired can pat themselves on the back? :)
I was in the "let's wait and see" crowd, so I'll give myself a half-pat.
(04-24-2014 07:54 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote: [ -> ]I was in the "let's wait and see" crowd, so I'll give myself a half-pat.
We should form a club.
I was pretty pissed when Jones was hired. I said some things I shouldn't have said. Glad to be wrong.
(04-24-2014 06:48 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2014 11:49 PM)Fatalisk Wrote: [ -> ]I have never stated my opinion on the hire, but I thought most here reacted very emotionally and unfairly. I thought it was a little odd how we reacted as a whole when he was hired. I think this team will be good if he gets talent to work with. His pre-game and in-game coaching abilities don't worry me.
That the initial reactions to Coach Jones' hiring were emotional and (in hindsight) ultimately wrong is pretty much the entire point of this thread. Note that the majority of comments being offered are in the nature of hat-in-hand acknowledgments from those who were vocally opposed to the hiring of Coach Jones. It takes a big man (or woman) to publicly admit that you were wrong. This thread speaks highly of our many loyal ODU fans -- who can admit they were wrong in their initial views on the hiring of Coach Jones.
It is a different question entirely as to whether those initial views were unfair. My personal view is that the adverse reactions to Coach Jones hiring was a very fair and completely understandable reaction by a fan base that had just been flat-out lied to by its AD (and, yes, I use that word advisedly). It takes a big man to apologize. The biggest apology in this scenario is owed by Wood Selig, who unfortunately appears to me to be something of a little man.
Finally, that you find it all a little odd that ODU fans cared enough to speak out about the hiring of Coach Jones is (at least in my view) kind of pointless. It's akin to being told by someone that they never would have bet on the horse you just lost money on, after the race is already over. But thanks for sharing.
I know I shouldn't do this, but here goes............
After 14 months or so my memory isn't what it used to be. What did WS actually lie about? Shouldn't he have been able to conduct the search to find the best candidate in his estimation? Should he have been so transparent in his search as to tell everyone what his plan was and then when it didn't play out as such, he would have had to scramble to get the fan base to rally around the next choice. Many would have wanted his head on a platter had he come out and said I want an "old, retread" coach who knows basketball but may not be able to connect to today's players. I think some of you "fans" are a little too sensitive or have a sense of entitlement that just doesn't exist. The man did the job that he was hired to do. I would think the bottom line would be did he hire a coach that could right the ship(wreck). Just my .02