(02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:16 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 06:50 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]Why don't you believe he could have said it? A shove is violence? You get called the "n" word and see how good it feel. Smart is 20 yrs old. That old azz man has lived a lifetime. Too many grown azz folks get off on yelling at young adults playing a game.
It struck me how old the guy was, as well, but you don't put your hands on someone else. I said the same thing when OJS man got assaulted by Pierre Hamburglar-Niles.
And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
They were both out of line. Both of them.
(02-09-2014 08:16 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: [ -> ]It has been reported that he did. It has been reported that the same fan has been verbally abusive to players in previous games. Add in that now he is to apologize and be banned from games the rest of the season? Smells to me like there were witnesses to the exchange, or they would not be imposing these penalties on the fan, nor would he be accepting them without making a huge stink.
Both were in the wrong, absolutely... but I grew up in SW Atlanta and have lived all over the south, and white guys better not bust out the N word without understanding the risks involved. It's a sure enough fighting word, and if you invoke it you better be sure of the situation and who you are talking to, and even then it's better never uttered.
Hell, even Richard Pryor quit using it.
I may be wrong, but I don't think he was banned...I believe he "volunteered" not to attend.
My guess is that TT realized what a PR nightmare they're in and compensated him to not attend
If there are witnesses (there should be plenty, as the two weren't exactly close to each other at the time), I expect they'll publicly support the claim of a racial slur very soon
There is video confirming that no racial slur was used.
(02-09-2014 08:47 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote: [ -> ]There is video confirming that no racial slur was used.
You're ruining the argument
From Gary Parrish's column:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...e-only-one
"The video clearly showed Smart commit a foul, fall down, get up and shove a fan in the front row. That alone was worthy of a suspension. So the Big 12 got this right.
"My actions last night were inappropriate and do not reflect myself or Texas Tech -- a university I love dearly. I regret calling Mr. Smart a 'piece of crap' but I want to make it known that I did not use a racial slur of any kind."
That's part of the statement released Sunday by Orr.
Let's get into that for a moment.
I suppose we'll never know for sure exactly what Orr said to provoke Smart. But it's only fair to note that Orr denied using racial slurs, and nobody is on record contradicting that version of events. So, for the sake of this conversation, let's assume all Orr did was what he said he did, which is call Smart a "piece of crap" while the All-American was lying in front of him.
Isn't that still ridiculous?
Honest to God, I can't think of another public place where an old white man calling a young black man a "piece of crap" is mostly considered acceptable behavior, and yet something like that happens at basketball games on the regular. Sticks and stones, I guess. But the words hurled by fans sitting within a few feet of players are often ugly, and I've wondered for a while why those words are allowed. That doesn't mean players should respond by shoving fans; I hope I've been clear enough about that. But fans should know it's not an OK thing to do, and schools should discipline ticket-holders when necessary.
So perhaps that'll be the good that comes from this mess. Maybe schools will start paying attention to verbal abuse, fans will start being less aggressive, and the next idiot who has convinced himself it's fun to taunt college athletes on a personal level will start instead treating players with a degree of human decency.
It's doubtful, I know.
But Marcus Smart isn't the only one who needs to learn from this deal."
I agree on all points band dad.
(02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:16 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]It struck me how old the guy was, as well, but you don't put your hands on someone else. I said the same thing when OJS man got assaulted by Pierre Hamburglar-Niles.
And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
I would argue that part of character is learning to walk away from stupid people.
(02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:16 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]It struck me how old the guy was, as well, but you don't put your hands on someone else. I said the same thing when OJS man got assaulted by Pierre Hamburglar-Niles.
And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
Interesting that you didnt copy his post completely and left off where he said that both were in the wrong, and then say Smaug is not saying what Orr should or should have not done.
And are you suggesting that players should go after fans who say bad things to them as long as they know they might face repercussions?
(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
I (along with several others) are on record saying that both were idiots. I haven't seen anybody say that the fan was completely justified…
however, there are people (mostly you) saying that Smart was completely justified…here's the irony…your main argument for his justification was a racial slur. however, when there's proof that the slur wasn't used (the main point in your argument), who hold tight to your argument.
there hasn't been one post (that I've seen) in which you've acknowledged one little bit that theres even the slightest chance that Smart was in the wrong, in any way…in makes your argument seem blindly biased
(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
You are choosing not to read what everybody wrote then. I don't see one post in this thread that says Orr was in the right.
(02-09-2014 11:20 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:40 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]And you don't call a young black male a n***a.
You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
Circle the part where I defended that *******, even once.
The only one here defending anyone's behavior is you defending Smart's.
I have read what has been said. What I haven't seen is a focus on what Orr said (or the accusation thereof). We want to talk about how Smart reacted and how he needs to control his anger, lets talk about what Orr did and ways to prevent that from happening in the future.
If you haven't been called the "N" word before then you truly cannot understand what it is like to be called such a thing. Why is it that we still have to deal with such ignorance in today's society? Yes. I know it is one of many things that is wrong in today's world and it is only propagated by TV and so forth. But it doesn't justify these negative actions.
Again, Smart has to learn from this and I am sure he will. The bigger picture is the comment from Orr, not Smart's reaction to it. I'm sure Smart has been called many things by folks during a basketball game and hasn't reacted to it. But this type of comment crosses the line and Smart or any other individual regardless of race, religion, or nationality should not have to deal with this type of stuff.
Now and I done with my soapbox, you may continue with your discussions.
From what I gather, Orr said he called Smart "a piece of crap". Not exactly a nice thing to say to anyone – at any time. This fan would have yelled the same "crap" at an opposing white player in the same circumstances.
(02-10-2014 07:01 AM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 11:20 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 07:44 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, and I never defended the clown. I'm just pointing out that nobody's hands are clean.
There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
I (along with several others) are on record saying that both were idiots. I haven't seen anybody say that the fan was completely justified…
however, there are people (mostly you) saying that Smart was completely justified…here's the irony…your main argument for his justification was a racial slur. however, when there's proof that the slur wasn't used (the main point in your argument), who hold tight to your argument.
there hasn't been one post (that I've seen) in which you've acknowledged one little bit that theres even the slightest chance that Smart was in the wrong, in any way…in makes your argument seem blindly biased
I haven't said Smart was completely justified and I have said Smart has to learn from this. However, I do understand why he reacted the way he did if Orr did refer to him by that word. It really is that simple. My argument is not blind bias, but I do believe some of you are very naive.
I'm not seeking agreement from any of you. Some of you will want to believe Orr and others Smart. I maintain Smart does not react the way he did nor would Orr offer an apology and ban himself from attending Tech games if it didn't go down like Smart said. Your choice to choose the side you want to believe.
You know my stance and it's the way I feel. I go back to the title of this thread and the initial insinuation behind it. It's pretty much whatever from this point on.
This isn't the first time Smart has reacted poorly for the world to see though. That's the difference. Do you remember what happened in the Palace? You simply cannot go into the stands and touch fans.
Yes, something needs to be done about fans. Nobody should feel that buying a ticket gives them the right to talk to another human being any way they feel like. And this ******* is not the first fan to say something that he wouldn't say to somebody out on the streets.
You however described a personal situation in your life where some idiot in public called you something terrible. Something was actually done to him in a real life situation without violence being involved.(you really may want to reconsider how you would react to that as well, because going to jail over some racist idiot really isn't worth it) I actually think the fan issue is going to be addressed in some form because of this incident.
Unfortunately, Smart is the celebrity here. People know him, and people are going to look at him and say WTF is he thinking. Again, it appears that he was called a piece of crap. But even if the guy used the N word, is shoving him and getting a 3 game suspension really worth it? Smart has a future to think about. Orr isn't going to change, because he is who he is at 60.
(02-10-2014 08:19 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-10-2014 07:01 AM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 11:20 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:34 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (02-09-2014 08:12 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]There is not even a reaction from Smart if the comment isn't made. Now we're expecting a 19-20 yr old to take the higher road from the negative action of 60 yr old plus male.
Back in 2004, I was in Columbus, OH with Schard, Slinkie, Attalla, MC Blazers and others for the NCAA Dance. UAB had just beat Washington and we were having drinks at a pub next to the arena. There wasn't too many blacks in the place that night and two ignorant white males apparently had drank some courage and decided to tell me n****as didn't belong in the establishment.
MC overheard what they said to me and if not for the bouncers in the place, business was about to be handled. I will not tolerate being called that word and I have no problem beating someone down that refers to me by that name regardless of color or religion.
And you'd have gone to jail, because beating people up is against the law.
So F'n what Smaug. I don't hear you all talking about what the other guy should have or should not have done. Just the reaction from Smart. If Smart had not said anything, no one would have known that guy made the derogatory comment towards him.
Sometimes you do things knowing the repercussions. I also understand that some of you don't get it either.
I (along with several others) are on record saying that both were idiots. I haven't seen anybody say that the fan was completely justified…
however, there are people (mostly you) saying that Smart was completely justified…here's the irony…your main argument for his justification was a racial slur. however, when there's proof that the slur wasn't used (the main point in your argument), who hold tight to your argument.
there hasn't been one post (that I've seen) in which you've acknowledged one little bit that theres even the slightest chance that Smart was in the wrong, in any way…in makes your argument seem blindly biased
I haven't said Smart was completely justified and I have said Smart has to learn from this. However, I do understand why he reacted the way he did if Orr did refer to him by that word. It really is that simple. My argument is not blind bias, but I do believe some of you are very naive.
I'm not seeking agreement from any of you. Some of you will want to believe Orr and others Smart. I maintain Smart does not react the way he did nor would Orr offer an apology and ban himself from attending Tech games if it didn't go down like Smart said. Your choice to choose the side you want to believe.
You know my stance and it's the way I feel. I go back to the title of this thread and the initial insinuation behind it. It's pretty much whatever from this point on.
So despite there being no proof that there is anything racial to this story, and video evidence that he said piece of crap, you are insisting on going on the premise that Orr went racial. You say that there is no reason for Smart to react that way unless it was racial. How do you know? Do you know him personally? As stated, he has shown evidence of being a hothead and he was in the thick of a tight game at the closing seconds when his team was about to lose a crucial game. I can see him snapping under those circumstances.
THIS IS NOT DEFENDING ORR!!!!! Just pointing out that Smart could have reacted like he did to non racial taunts, which is apparently what happened.
(02-10-2014 09:12 AM)DragonClaw Wrote: [ -> ]Jackie Robinson.
...has nothing to do with this incident