You can't make this stuff up.... :muttering:
WASHINGTON — Congressional investigators probing the controversial "Fast and Furious" anti-gun-trafficking operation on the border with Mexico believe at least six Mexican drug cartel figures involved in gun smuggling also were paid FBI informants, officials said Saturday.
The investigators have asked the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration for details about the alleged informants, as well as why agents at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the Fast and Furious operation, were not told about them.
The development raises further doubts about the now-shuttered program, which was created in November 2009 in an effort to track guns across the border and unravel the cartels' gun-smuggling networks. The gun tracing largely failed, however, and hundreds of weapons purchased in U.S. shops later were found at crime scenes in Mexico.
The FBI and DEA did not tell the ATF about the alleged informants. The ATF and congressional investigators learned later that those agencies apparently were paying cartel members whom the ATF wanted to arrest.
"Operation Fast and Furious was conceived to get some of the bigger fish down there," said one official close to the congressional investigation, who asked not to be identified because the probe is ongoing. "Then it turned out that some of the ones they were zeroing in on actually, mostly likely were paid informants."
The official said at least half-a-dozen cartel figures were being paid by one U.S. law enforcement agency while they were being targeted by another.
"We are learning more about them, and there are six so far that we know about. It's multiples, for sure," the official said.
The official declined to identify the six, but said the individual cited in the letter to the FBI operated along the Texas border with Mexico.
"This guy could die if it got out who he is," the official said. "He'd be killed."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/tops...z1SMzLNkUz
This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
(07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
(07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
(07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
(07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
I'll type this slowly.
Criminals killed US law enforcement agents. Said criminals shot them. Said criminals shot them with guns the US government supplied them.
Putting guns in the hands of criminals was the expressed intent of the program.
Why is it you lefties only want criminals to have guns?
(07-17-2011 03:50 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
I'll type this slowly.
Criminals killed US law enforcement agents. Said criminals shot them. Said criminals shot them with guns the US government supplied them.
Putting guns in the hands of criminals was the expressed intent of the program.
Why is it you lefties only want criminals to have guns?
Why does it matter where the guns came from? It's the criminals that were the problem. The guns didn't do anything, only the criminals. Guns don't kill people. Right?
(07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
It was the ATF, FBI, Justice Dept. and Obabba that have that blood on their hands. An the Libs, the Prez, and UnGrad got no other way to Spin it.
(07-17-2011 03:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:50 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
I'll type this slowly.
Criminals killed US law enforcement agents. Said criminals shot them. Said criminals shot them with guns the US government supplied them.
Putting guns in the hands of criminals was the expressed intent of the program.
Why is it you lefties only want criminals to have guns?
Why does it matter where the guns came from? It's the criminals that were the problem. The guns didn't do anything, only the criminals. Guns don't kill people. Right?
Why does the left only want criminals to have guns?
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I've heard you righties beat that drum for years and years. Now it seems like you've done a 180 on that "principle" since you think there's some political gain to it. So you still sticking by "guns don't kill people", or have you now completely ditched that? I suspect you've only ditched it in this particular instance because it suits you. Unprincipled people will do that.
(07-17-2011 03:52 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 09:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ]This investigation is going all the way to the whitehouse. The Justice Dept., ATF, FBI and Obabba will answer for the deaths involved. How could they not know that people would die because of the Gunwalking operations?
You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
It was the ATF, FBI, Justice Dept. and Obabba that have that blood on their hands. An the Libs, the Prez, and UnGrad got no other way to Spin it.
Wow. That is impressive SOAF. You know for a fact Obama knew about it and had something to do with it. I am sure you got that info from Newsmax or WND.
(07-17-2011 03:52 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:50 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
I'll type this slowly.
Criminals killed US law enforcement agents. Said criminals shot them. Said criminals shot them with guns the US government supplied them.
Putting guns in the hands of criminals was the expressed intent of the program.
Why is it you lefties only want criminals to have guns?
Why does it matter where the guns came from? It's the criminals that were the problem. The guns didn't do anything, only the criminals. Guns don't kill people. Right?
Why does the left only want criminals to have guns?
That Smaug is clouding your brain again isn't it?
(07-17-2011 03:58 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:52 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:42 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:40 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]You mean you right-wingers no longer stand by your dumba$$ argument that guns don't kill people? That's progress. Even if it took irrational hatred of the President to get you there.
We had a state-sanctioned program putting guns in the hands of criminals.
On purpose.
Really.
But guns don't kill people. Right?
It was the ATF, FBI, Justice Dept. and Obabba that have that blood on their hands. An the Libs, the Prez, and UnGrad got no other way to Spin it.
Wow. That is impressive SOAF. You know for a fact Obama knew about it and had something to do with it. I am sure you got that info from Newsmax or WND.
Sum of All Stupidity is very entertaining.
(07-17-2011 03:56 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I've heard you righties beat that drum for years and years. Now it seems like you've done a 180 on that "principle" since you think there's some political gain to it. So you still sticking by "guns don't kill people", or have you now completely ditched that? I suspect you've only ditched it in this particular instance because it suits you. Unprincipled people will do that.
I believe in responsible, reasonable gun ownership. I don't believe in allowing guns to land in the hands of criminals and the mentally/emotionally unstable.
I certainly don't condone government agencies deliberately putting guns into the hands of any of the above.
Now you know my position.
And speaking of switching sides of an argument when it suits you, are you honestly telling me that if this were the John Ashcroft Justice Department, you'd have been just as groovy with it?
(07-17-2011 03:59 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:52 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:50 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:45 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]But guns don't kill people. Right?
I'll type this slowly.
Criminals killed US law enforcement agents. Said criminals shot them. Said criminals shot them with guns the US government supplied them.
Putting guns in the hands of criminals was the expressed intent of the program.
Why is it you lefties only want criminals to have guns?
Why does it matter where the guns came from? It's the criminals that were the problem. The guns didn't do anything, only the criminals. Guns don't kill people. Right?
Why does the left only want criminals to have guns?
That Smaug is clouding your brain again isn't it?
At least I have one to cloud. Neener neener.
(07-17-2011 04:02 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:56 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I've heard you righties beat that drum for years and years. Now it seems like you've done a 180 on that "principle" since you think there's some political gain to it. So you still sticking by "guns don't kill people", or have you now completely ditched that? I suspect you've only ditched it in this particular instance because it suits you. Unprincipled people will do that.
I believe in responsible, reasonable gun ownership. I don't believe in allowing guns to land in the hands of criminals and the mentally/emotionally unstable.
I certainly don't condone government agencies deliberately putting guns into the hands of any of the above.
Now you know my position.
And speaking of switching sides of an argument when it suits you, are you honestly telling me that if this were the John Ashcroft Justice Department, you'd have been just as groovy with it?
I know you're dying to change the direction of the discussion, but I insist you tell us whether you still agree that guns don't kill people. There's no reason not to go on the record about it.
(07-17-2011 04:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:02 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:56 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I've heard you righties beat that drum for years and years. Now it seems like you've done a 180 on that "principle" since you think there's some political gain to it. So you still sticking by "guns don't kill people", or have you now completely ditched that? I suspect you've only ditched it in this particular instance because it suits you. Unprincipled people will do that.
I believe in responsible, reasonable gun ownership. I don't believe in allowing guns to land in the hands of criminals and the mentally/emotionally unstable.
I certainly don't condone government agencies deliberately putting guns into the hands of any of the above.
Now you know my position.
And speaking of switching sides of an argument when it suits you, are you honestly telling me that if this were the John Ashcroft Justice Department, you'd have been just as groovy with it?
I know you're dying to change the direction of the discussion, but I insist you tell us whether you still agree that guns don't kill people. There's no reason not to go on the record about it.
I explained my opinion on guns.
You explain yours.
And "change the direction of the discussion"? You mean like you did?
(07-17-2011 04:10 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:02 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:56 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I've heard you righties beat that drum for years and years. Now it seems like you've done a 180 on that "principle" since you think there's some political gain to it. So you still sticking by "guns don't kill people", or have you now completely ditched that? I suspect you've only ditched it in this particular instance because it suits you. Unprincipled people will do that.
I believe in responsible, reasonable gun ownership. I don't believe in allowing guns to land in the hands of criminals and the mentally/emotionally unstable.
I certainly don't condone government agencies deliberately putting guns into the hands of any of the above.
Now you know my position.
And speaking of switching sides of an argument when it suits you, are you honestly telling me that if this were the John Ashcroft Justice Department, you'd have been just as groovy with it?
I know you're dying to change the direction of the discussion, but I insist you tell us whether you still agree that guns don't kill people. There's no reason not to go on the record about it.
I explained my opinion on guns.
You explain yours.
You seem like a coward. Are you a coward?
(07-17-2011 04:11 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:10 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:02 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 03:56 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ]Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I've heard you righties beat that drum for years and years. Now it seems like you've done a 180 on that "principle" since you think there's some political gain to it. So you still sticking by "guns don't kill people", or have you now completely ditched that? I suspect you've only ditched it in this particular instance because it suits you. Unprincipled people will do that.
I believe in responsible, reasonable gun ownership. I don't believe in allowing guns to land in the hands of criminals and the mentally/emotionally unstable.
I certainly don't condone government agencies deliberately putting guns into the hands of any of the above.
Now you know my position.
And speaking of switching sides of an argument when it suits you, are you honestly telling me that if this were the John Ashcroft Justice Department, you'd have been just as groovy with it?
I know you're dying to change the direction of the discussion, but I insist you tell us whether you still agree that guns don't kill people. There's no reason not to go on the record about it.
I explained my opinion on guns.
You explain yours.
You seem like a coward. Are you a coward?
Oooooh. Calling someone a coward on an internet message board.
That must make you some sort of internet tough guy. Are you an internet tough guy?
I'll give you this: You're light on your feet. You've managed to completely avoid dealing with this thread topic.
(07-17-2011 04:16 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:11 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:10 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2011 04:02 PM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]I believe in responsible, reasonable gun ownership. I don't believe in allowing guns to land in the hands of criminals and the mentally/emotionally unstable.
I certainly don't condone government agencies deliberately putting guns into the hands of any of the above.
Now you know my position.
And speaking of switching sides of an argument when it suits you, are you honestly telling me that if this were the John Ashcroft Justice Department, you'd have been just as groovy with it?
I know you're dying to change the direction of the discussion, but I insist you tell us whether you still agree that guns don't kill people. There's no reason not to go on the record about it.
I explained my opinion on guns.
You explain yours.
You seem like a coward. Are you a coward?
Oooooh. Calling someone a coward on an internet message board.
That must make you some sort of internet tough guy. Are you an internet tough guy?
I'll give you this: You're light on your feet. You've managed to completely avoid dealing with this thread topic.
Yet again you refuse to take a stand. That's very telling.