Southeast Missouri has opted out of the "Indians" mascot name, and copied their new one from MU. At least they didn't choose "Eagles."
<a href='http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/ncaa/06/30/bc.semissouri.nickname.ap/index.html' target='_blank'>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/bask...e.ap/index.html</a>
Oh, now, hey! I like the nickname "Otahkians". It's just fun to say Oh-TAHK-eeeans.
Ohtahkians.
Ohtahkians.
We are the otahkians. I bet writing a fight song would be a b!tch, however.
MacLord Wrote:Southeast Missouri has opted out of the "Indians" mascot name, and copied their new one from MU. At least they didn't choose "Eagles."
<a href='http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/ncaa/06/30/bc.semissouri.nickname.ap/index.html' target='_blank'>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/bask...e.ap/index.html</a>
As long as they were giving in to the Correctoids, I find it odd that SE Missouri wouldn't take this opportunity to chose an unique or regionally significant nickname. At least they had a lot of local and university input into the process. That courtesy was denied to the EMU community during the Sheldon's regime march to correctness. I give CMU a lot of credit for maintaining their nickname and providing outreach to the local Chippewa community.
I still find it interesting that the Irish community doesn't march on South Bend and the Greeks leave East Lansing unmolested but find a band of American Indians and they'll ride this issue into political power every time.
DexterEagle Wrote:I still find it interesting that the Irish community doesn't march on South Bend and the Greeks leave East Lansing unmolested but find a band of American Indians and they'll ride this issue into political power every time.
It's not every Native American, and I think they've been spurred on by guilt-ridden whites.
I agree w/ your point about ND and MSU. Don't forget U$C and Idaho.
"We're human beings not mascots" Blah, blah, blah. Funny how Irish folks *love* Notre Dame.
You could even argue that point when thinking of Cowboys, Cornhuskers, Hoosiers or Cavaliers. Not to mention pro teams like the Vikings, Steelers, Celtics and Packers.
More power to CMU, SDSU, Ark St and any others.
Quote:More power to CMU, SDSU, Ark St and any others
Actually, SDSU has had quite a bit of drama involving their mascot...
Actually, it seems to me that whether it's offensive or not is not up to you or me, but the offended party in question. If the indigenous peoples of the continent feel that it's offensive, then it is and it should be eradicated. As for ND, like you said, the Irish like it. As such, not offensive. I, being white and male, can't judge whether the name "Indian" is offensive or not. I can only take what I am told and follow their wishes.
DexterEagle Wrote:. . . find a band of American Indians and they'll ride this issue into political power every time.
Which I guess is why a secret cabal of Native Americans is running the country today, eh?
:rolleyes:
DrTorch Wrote:"We're human beings not mascots" Blah, blah, blah. Funny how Irish folks *love* Notre Dame.
Irish seem to love ND, but they're not the Notre Dame Drunken, Lazy Irish.
Redskins IS a derogatory term to those called that once. If they have a problem with that, I think people should be sensitive to that. If the Chippewa tribe doesn't mind CMU using it, then I'm all for CMU using it.
I don't believe any of the rest of your examples are actually derogatory terms.
Sometimes this topic is very difficult for me to even delve into after the way the rush to PC Prez at EMU and his band of lackeys (aka Board of Regents) destroyed a great tradition in abandoning the Huron nickname.
Most know that there was no great outcry from the Native American community to change the name and most supported keeping it. It was just a bunch of guilt-ridden white folks making themselves feel better and giving themselves a heavy handed pat on the back for being seen as oh so sensitve.
Anyway, it was bad enough that we abandoned our Huron tradition but then we had to add to the travesty by choosing a humdrum name like Eagles. I thought, since it was a done deal, we should have at least been creative and called ourselves the Emus!
Like others, I am glad to see CMU did not make the change when the PC crowd came gunning for them. Geez, that was tough...I hate saying anything nice about that school up north.
HuskieDan Wrote:Redskins IS a derogatory term to those called that once. If they have a problem with that, I think people should be sensitive to that. If the Chippewa tribe doesn't mind CMU using it, then I'm all for CMU using it.
I don't believe any of the rest of your examples are actually derogatory terms.
No one brought up the term "Redskins".
Secondly, 'Indians' is not a derogatory term either.
Thirdly, the examples are in response to the quote, "We're human beings, not mascots." If you'd check before you start post for the sake of posting, you'd find that 'Steelers', 'Cowboys', 'Vandals', etc are all human beings too.
DrTorch Wrote:Secondly, 'Indians' is not a derogatory term either.
To you or to the people that it represents? Do they believe that it is derogatory and are they offended at teams using it as a nickname? Again, it affects them, not you.
The Flash Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:Secondly, 'Indians' is not a derogatory term either.
To you or to the people that it represents? Do they believe that it is derogatory and are they offended at teams using it as a nickname? Again, it affects them, not you.
How do you know I don't have Native American lineage?
Nevertheless, I conceded that some people don't like the term now...but I question how those concerns got raised. Particularly when the concerns are couched in an absurd comment like the one I keep quoting.
DrTorch Wrote:HuskieDan Wrote:Redskins IS a derogatory term to those called that once. If they have a problem with that, I think people should be sensitive to that. If the Chippewa tribe doesn't mind CMU using it, then I'm all for CMU using it.
I don't believe any of the rest of your examples are actually derogatory terms.
No one brought up the term "Redskins".
Secondly, 'Indians' is not a derogatory term either.
Thirdly, the examples are in response to the quote, "We're human beings, not mascots." If you'd check before you start post for the sake of posting, you'd find that 'Steelers', 'Cowboys', 'Vandals', etc are all human beings too.
Are "Steelers", "Cowboys" and "Vandals" another term for a currently employed racial description utilized on government questionnaires such as a census (Native Americans vs. Indians)?
More to the point, as the Flash points out, it's about what those you're referring to think.
I'm not too into the whole PC thing, but if a group believes a term to be derogatory, I think it should be re-considered whether it should be used in this type of scenario.
Oddly, though, I don't like all the XXXX-American distinctions, like African-Americans. What am I supposed to refer to a black person as if I'm in England?
DrTorch Wrote:DexterEagle Wrote:I still find it interesting that the Irish community doesn't march on South Bend and the Greeks leave East Lansing unmolested but find a band of American Indians and they'll ride this issue into political power every time.
...
I agree w/ your point about ND and MSU. Don't forget U$C and Idaho.
These analogies fall far short.
America never did anything to the Irish that remotely compares to what it did to American Indians.
Yes, the Irish were once discriminated against in this country. But it wasn't anything like what America did to American Indians. It was very nearly genocidal.
Further, although we hate to admit it, there is a reason so many vast numbers of American sports teams have names that evoke American Indians. It's because our fathers and grandfathers and greatgrandfathers believed American Indians were wild-eyed savage killers -- and nothing more.
Before high schools, colleges and universities began dropping their Indian-related nicknames, "Indians" was one of the top ten most common nicknames for sports teams in America -- along with tigers, lions, bears, eagles, etc.
Animals that kill.
I agree with Dexter, mostly. I liked "Hurons." I grew up near the Huron River, and I liked the way it evoked a sense of place. I think it could have been saved. Also, I admire Central Michigan for the work it has done in outreach to the Saginaw Chippewa and education of its own community.
But, honestly, "Redskins" absolutely had to go at Miami -- and I think (and hope) that nickname's days are numbered in Washington.
And if the Cleveland MLB team drops "Indians" for something cooler (like "Spiders"), I'll smile. I'd be very happy about that.
Shawnee Asshats.
Hey, that's pretty catchy!
Part of me gets really upset when I read these stories. But then part of me says, "What's it matter what the nickname is?" I support the name at the front ie. KENT STATE not so much the nickname FLASHES. To me it's a bigger insult when schools completely change their name, like Northeastern Lousiana becoming Lousiana Monroe, or Lafayette, whichever one it it now.
I was happy when Kent put the "State" back into its sports teams. Look at old photos up until 99 or 2000. All the uniforms just said "Kent." The teams were only to be referred to as "Kent." It's like they figured dropping the "State" from the name would make people forget the May 4, 1970 shootings.
WE ARE
-clap clap-
KENT STATE!!
-clap clap-
DexterEagle Wrote:I still find it interesting that the Irish community doesn't march on South Bend and the Greeks leave East Lansing unmolested but find a band of American Indians and they'll ride this issue into political power every time.
Bowling Green sororities should be admired for the tolerance for not marching on the Marshall campus to protest Marshall's insensitive nickname. Then again, it might just be their inability to march that keeps them from picketing.
DrTorch Wrote:Secondly, 'Indians' is not a derogatory term either.
Thirdly, the examples are in response to the quote, "We're human beings, not mascots." If you'd check before you start post for the sake of posting, you'd find that 'Steelers', 'Cowboys', 'Vandals', etc are all human beings too.
Two points.
First we are not now nor have we ever been Indians. We do not live in India we live in North America.
Second the "Steelers" are not human beings. The term refers to the steel industry and US Steel not to steel workers. The logo on the side of the helmet was the US Steel emblem.
DevilGrad Wrote:Shawnee Asshats.
Hey, that's pretty catchy!
I find that highly offensive.
Schadenfreude Wrote:And if the Cleveland MLB team drops "Indians" for something cooler (like "Spiders"), I'll smile. I'd be very happy about that.
I'd be really happy if they'd just drop Cheif Wahoo. That logo has got to be the most racist thing in sports.