In order to actually be right on the one thing you like to brag about--the 15k attendance rule--it has to actually go into effect the way it is written. I think that's still a longshot. And if you are wrong about that and they modify it, then you are batting .000, somewhat lower than the combined winning percentages of your deteriorating football and never good basketball programs this year.
All indications I've seen is that they will modify that proposal, not for our sake, but because they see a number of headaches it will create for the big boys.
Keep in mind that no team has failed to meet the attendance requirements yet because no season has begun with any attendance requirements in effect. Please come back in a few years when we can study your one thought in greater detail!
Your jealousy over the attention others are getting and your denials about your motives are very hollow and apparent to even the disinterested.
WKU TJeff--a lot of people have posters like pal. on ignore, which is why he gets less response these days. He has one idea, one agenda, and a lot of anger over the MAC's rejection of YSU. I'm a mod, so I don't put anyone on ignore. A sad psychological study, I agree.
paladin1aa Wrote:Jeff -- " See I told you so " comes AFTER the fact. I am not negative. I have a different opinion .But I always wait for someone to make a dumb position before I come on. Not hate , debate !!
There is a lot that I let go by.
My arguement on 15k was correct.
My arguement on losing MAC schools to 15k will prove correct.
You want the MAC ?? Good luck !! Staying there is the problem.
I like the MAC guys. Some of them aren't too bright, but I enjoy the debate. Some of them are funny. Some of them are nasty. Some of them don't know their butt.
If one of them comes on with a point I can support, I will.
Right now, this is folly !!
So what is your point?
Seriously.
If you are MAC commissioner, what do you do?
I'm tired of your negativity. You aren't adding anything here.
I think you are just pissed off because Youngstown State isn't in the MAC.
Get over it. They might be asked to join in a few years. Now isn't the time.
Jeff -- I am not on here pushing YSU. If you stay in the GFC , we will keep you. If you go MAC , I will wish you good luck. You'll need it.
Whoops, I see the guys are on my butt. Schaden, if I am the MAC commish, I sit tight. Watch the fall out. Also watch for better opportunities. Why compound one mistake with another. Let 15k settle out.
And Axe,give it up. Wrong about 15k. Wrong about changing it. Wrong about amending it. And you will be wrong on it going in. You will also be affected. Sorry, but Kent is dogmeat !!
Being right is not being negative. You guys have been wrong. Admit it.. Now if you want to agree with me that Toledo & Marshall win divisions this year , O.K. If you want to disagree, I'll debate that.
I talk YSU on their site. OSU on their site. This is MAC.
Now , guys, where have I been wrong ?? If you want to talk about the future, fine. I may not take your position, depending on what it is !! I may !!
paladin1aa Wrote:Jeff -- I am not on here pushing YSU. If you stay in the GFC , we will keep you. If you go MAC , I will wish you good luck. You'll need it.
Whoops, I see the guys are on my butt. Schaden, if I am the MAC commish, I sit tight. Watch the fall out. Also watch for better opportunities. Why compound one mistake with another. Let 15k settle out.
And Axe,give it up. Wrong about 15k. Wrong about changing it. Wrong about amending it. And you will be wrong on it going in. You will also be affected. Sorry, but Kent is dogmeat !!
Being right is not being negative. You guys have been wrong. Admit it.. Now if you want to agree with me that Toledo & Marshall win divisions this year , O.K. If you want to disagree, I'll debate that.
I talk YSU on their site. OSU on their site. This is MAC.
Now , guys, where have I been wrong ?? If you want to talk about the future, fine. I may not take your position, depending on what it is !! I may !!
Personally, we really just don't want your opinion at all, since you don't have a stake in this at all.
How's that?
paladin1aa Wrote:Jeff -- I am not on here pushing YSU. If you stay in the GFC , we will keep you. If you go MAC , I will wish you good luck. You'll need it.
Whoops, I see the guys are on my butt. Schaden, if I am the MAC commish, I sit tight. Watch the fall out. Also watch for better opportunities. Why compound one mistake with another. Let 15k settle out.
And Axe,give it up. Wrong about 15k. Wrong about changing it. Wrong about amending it. And you will be wrong on it going in. You will also be affected. Sorry, but Kent is dogmeat !!
Being right is not being negative. You guys have been wrong. Admit it.. Now if you want to agree with me that Toledo & Marshall win divisions this year , O.K. If you want to disagree, I'll debate that.
I talk YSU on their site. OSU on their site. This is MAC.
Now , guys, where have I been wrong ?? If you want to talk about the future, fine. I may not take your position, depending on what it is !! I may !!
You talk about the sky falling, if it does ok. We start again and band with schools remaining in 1-A. There will be 8 MAC schools remaining for sure maybe a couple more. We might snatch up a couple remaning sunbelt/cusa teams that need a home. I dont see why you think the MAC is fallen apart, people take you for being a YSU homer and bringing smack about the end of the MAC to this board, hence the reason for the attacks.
Never said MAC was done for. Have always said MAC survives. But it does so less a few schools. Said that months ago. I was attacked. Said 15 k was here and staying . Was attacked.
I support a MAC I-A. Get grief for it. Tell you some candidates are not right for MAC. Get grief.
Try this on for size. After the 15k settles out and the teams that are leaving go, a few conferences realign and PRESTO---------------------- you & C-USA are talking mutual re-alignment.
Can't wait for that circus to start.
Bottom line, I figure let's invite WKU and MTSU in and see if they stick. If not, we try something else.
I don't see a harm in trying this.
The worst that can happen is we end up kicking them out because we don't want a nonfootball playing member. And we might not do that: Western Kentucky is a heck of a basketball program.
Not a bad position. But if WKU can't make or stick to 15k, they will be gone , good BB or not.
Both of those schools won't hang with Northern schools. As the fall
out rolls thru I-A and conferences realign, they are both going South.
Something happens to Sunbelt. Something comes out of it. OVC & Sunbelt are Southern conferences and both WKU & MTSU fan bases are oriented to the South. There may be some teams coming out of the Southern Conference (SoCon) to go I-A. That will prove too tempting to these schools.
If they come, fine. I don't see them staying long or not having 15k problems.
ex Cincy Kid Wrote:Actually, there is precedent for a IAA not usually averaging 15K to move up to IA and then make it.......................any guesses who it is?? Well, if you can believe it, it's........... UCF!
UCF's last 5 years in IAA land:
91: 14,988 avg.
92: 8,480
93: 11,788
94: 22,950 (nice bump there!)
95: 12,833
96: First year of IA
So, see, all is "not lost"! And now KT should be squarely in WKU's corner that it can be done! 
Very true,
I was saying that WKU attendance was a little soft... till I looked at our 1AA attendance. So I see WKU as a possible good choice... but I am not sure why the MAC is not also talking to Temple for football only... or army and Navy? Why MTSU? Seems like their our some decent choices closer to the MAC's current footprint.
No_Bull Wrote:So I see WKU as a possible good choice... but I am not sure why the MAC is not also talking to Temple for football only... or army and Navy? Why MTSU? Seems like their our some decent choices closer to the MAC's current footprint.
I believe Army and Navy do not want to join a conference. I think we may have talked to them about membership and that is how the whole Patriot Bowl thing came about.
Temple - couple of things could be the case here. First I have heard talk about Temple to the MAC for football only, of course that is all rumors and who knows. Second, Temple's administration really doesn't care enough about playing DI-A football. I could very easily see them in I-AA within the next few years. Third, there desire to keep all other sports in the A-10 killed their chances of going to C-USA and could be the reason they will probably be independent after this season. Fourth, Temple doesn't have the potential for more fans in football. WKU does have that potential.
As for Temple being closer to the MAC footprint.......it is an 8 hour drive from Toledo to Philadelphia. My guess is that Toledo to Bowling Green, KY is about 6-7 hours. I don't see a difference there, plus WKU and MTSU give the MAC a sort of southern presence which helps us in recruiting down there.
It takes me 6-6.5 hours from Bowling Green to Toledo on my way back to Auburn Hills, MI. :)
WKU fan
I'm a little late to the party, but I'll welcome WKU to the conference if the rumor mill turns out to the true. Although I'm not holding my breath quite yet.
In earlier posts where people are guessing "divisions", I see MTSU's name popping up a lot. Was there some other speculation about them that I missed?
Well, we've seen a lot of "dooms-dayers" around this site, and most of them tend to be from posters of schools leaving the conference in a year. And one of the "doomsday" predictions was the "5 IA home game" requirement. Well, I got news for y'all......that stupid requirement was already tabled until at least the 2006 season. So, what's next? Does the NCAA risk a lawsuit from long-standing members in good standing like Kent State because a rule that the NCAA said was intended to keep out IAA wannabe's is used to force out long-standing programs that would like to remain committed (scholarships, etc.) to IA football? I'd say that remains to be seen, guys.
If Paladin is right and the proposed attendance rules are enacted, it's quite plausible that 2-3 MAC programs could be in trouble.........probably all the more reason to look at realistic options for expansion. Even if WKU doesn't end up being a strong candidate in football, they bring a rich hoops tradition and a geography not outside that of a number of conference members. I'm not trying to come on like an endorsement of WKU, but I can certainly see the logic in the conference having discussions with them, particularly if it's a "package" deal with MTSU.
We deal with constant critcism of the conference around here for being content with the status quo.....mostly from Herd fans and KT, but as soon as the conference seemingly makes a proactive move, we get the same "nay-sayers (and to his credit KT hasn't been one of them this time) telling us what a useless gesture it is. The negatism gets pretty predictable, and tiresome.
ex Cincy Kid Wrote:Well, we've seen a lot of "dooms-dayers" around this site, and most of them tend to be from posters of schools leaving the conference in a year. And one of the "doomsday" predictions was the "5 IA home game" requirement. Well, I got news for y'all......that stupid requirement was already tabled until at least the 2006 season. So, what's next? Does the NCAA risk a lawsuit from long-standing members in good standing like Kent State because a rule that the NCAA said was intended to keep out IAA wannabe's is used to force out long-standing programs that would like to remain committed (scholarships, etc.) to IA football? I'd say that remains to be seen, guys.
If Paladin is right and the proposed attendance rules are enacted, it's quite plausible that 2-3 MAC programs could be in trouble.........probably all the more reason to look at realistic options for expansion. Even if WKU doesn't end up being a strong candidate in football, they bring a rich hoops tradition and a geography not outside that of a number of conference members. I'm not trying to come on like an endorsement of WKU, but I can certainly see the logic in the conference having discussions with them, particularly if it's a "package" deal with MTSU.
We deal with constant critcism of the conference around here for being content with the status quo.....mostly from Herd fans and KT, but as soon as the conference seemingly makes a proactive move, we get the same "nay-sayers (and to his credit KT hasn't been one of them this time) telling us what a useless gesture it is. The negatism gets pretty predictable, and tiresome.
I'm not being a naysayer. I think WKU would be a good fit. I'm simply saying that I don't believe MTSU would be, considering there are several teams in the MAC with attendance issues already.
Temple football only would be good, but it seems as though you guys want nothing to do with that after the UCF experiment.
I honestly hope the MAC succeeds. I will roote for all non BCS teams (a slap in the face) to succeed. It just seems like many fans on this board are very critical of CUSA for no apparent reason.
I've heard no RUMOR of MTSU, and seems all the MTSU fans are happy gambling with the SBC and are not interested in the MAC. I don't understand that. It does make sense though to bring WKU and MTSU together. They would be GREAT Travel partners for the MAC. Fly into Nashville for a game with MTSU on thursday, then play WKU on Saturday and fly back. MTSU is 1.5 hours away from WKU.
It would also help attendance for both schools in football. I am suprised MTSU fans are not interested.
[QUOTE]It's an honest reaction.
The real whopper was that the guy also suggested a move from the Sun Belt to the MAC is lateral... which is plain nuts.
I think most WKU fans understand the MAC is a step up. But Kentucky is the home of Louisville -- meaning WKU fans seem more familiar with Conference USA. Some fans regularly pine for entry into Conference USA and won't be satisfied with anything else.
I may post over there later and encourage them to keep an open mind about the MAC and point out a few things. But I'm not going to get defensive about it. I'm pretty sure once they get to know our league, they'll begin to fully appreciate it and understand just how close it is, competitively, to Conference USA Lite.[QUOTE]
Kentucky is the home of WKU. Most WKU fans despise Louisville. One reason that WKU fans want Conf USA is because we almost got in it several years ago but we were blocked by UofL from going. They wanted to be the only Kentucky school in the conference so they kept us from getting in. So you see some WKU fans still pine for what we lost. I on the other hand along with most of the posters on the "Haven" want the MAC. WKU joined the SBC thinking it was gonna grow into a good conference. It was for a few years, but then we had some teams leave. Now we don't have much to like about the Sun Belt. Most of the other Sun Belt teams don't like us because they say that we think we are better than them just because we strive to better our situation. I think WKU is better than the SBC. WKU is the 9th winningest program in NCAA history with 1000+ wins. We have a very rich tradition and the Sun Belt doesn't help our national prominance at all. So I hope that WKU joins the MAC. Because that will be a step up into returning back to where WKU belongs. The MAC is a very fast growing power conference. IMHO the MAC is one of the top 3 "mid-major" conferences in the land. And if the MAC continues to strive for the best like they are now, then it will be ranked higher than several of the so called "major" conferences.
I hope these rumors are true. The MAC and WKU are a perfect fit for one another.
--Rojogrande
"If I am wrong about something , I'll be the first to admit it. But I am batting 1000 with these guys."
Paladin1aa, I will be looking for your statement. You know the one I am talking about. The 15K rule. How about if you are wrong you stop posting for a few months since your record will be 0%. :D
The WKU board seems to be filled with dread about this leaking out..............I also wonder if the MAC and WKU wanted the NCAA to finalize its April meeting recommendations (i.e. attendance, etc.) and C-USA to announce its intentions (and then see the possible impact on the WAC and SunBelt) before going public with this? You'd think that MTSU would be a part of the discussions, but I suspect they wouldn't be ready to jump unless the SunBelt appeared to be in trouble, whereas WKU's motivation may have been mostly the IA upgrade to football, although the MAC would be a better spot for their hoops as well.
WKU could go 1-A in the Sun Belt tomorrow if they wanted. The Sun Belt commish has tried. WKU knows their are better situations than the Sun Belt or we'd already be playing Sun Belt football.
I hope all these rumors prove true or we're all going to look pretty foolish.
Diddle Bum Wrote:WKU could go 1-A in the Sun Belt tomorrow if they wanted. The Sun Belt commish has tried. WKU knows their are better situations than the Sun Belt or we'd already be playing Sun Belt football.
I hope all these rumors prove true or we're all going to look pretty foolish.
You already do.