(03-25-2024 06:54 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Well, the power conferences have opined what they wanted: more NCAAT bids. Not NIT. This was a concession, but not what was requested.

They definitely have a greater desire for more Tourney bids than for guaranteed NIT bids, but four of the six took more than their guaranteed two "exempt" NIT bids, a fifth (the SEC) took both of their exempt bids and only the PAC-12, who won't be a power basketball conference next year, left one of their exempt bids on the table.

Quote: Now, we get to see the entitlement flushed out when these power conferences all turn down these invitations.

There's only one power conference that turned down an "exempt" NIT spot, but there are obviously a number of power conference schools that did.

(1) Unlike the Tourney, and unlike the NIT decades back, pretty much nobody watches the early round except the fans of the teams playing, so ESPN, the media partner, wanted more teams in the NIT with larger fan bases.

(2) The conferences were like, "sometimes it'll be useful to go to the NIT, sometimes it isn't, so give us two picks, and odds are we'll have two schools who want to go."

But since the "exempt" schools means that the first four out rule only actually means anything for non-power-conferences, the other four first-round hosts should be reserved for non-power-conference schools, with first four out schools having first call, and then regular season champions not in the Tourney in NET order.

(03-24-2024 07:32 PM)ETSUfan#2 Wrote:  Had I been on the NIT selection committee, I would have much preferred a 20-13 St. Bonaventure squad over a 16-17 Xavier.

As for the Bonnies themselves, they recently went 1 and done in the 2021 NCAA Tournament, won 3 games in the 2022 NIT, then, proceeded to go 14-18 in the 2022-23 season. St. Bonaventure isn't Duke, UNC, Kentucky, or UCLA. After a loosing season in 2023, an NIT bid this year after having 6 more wins and 5 fewer losses then the previous season would have definitely been a step up after a year of nothing.

One of the things that makes St. Bonaventure a good program is that we know who we are and are okay with it, and just want to be the best version of that we can be.

You mention the losing season last year, that's because we had 5 junior starters in 2021 (NCAA trip) coming back for 2022 (preseason ranked but PG injury tanked NCAA chances, hence NIT semis run). Literally had zero returning points/minutes in 2023.

We've won 18+ (or prorated to that because of COVID) games in 11 of the last 13 years.

2012 NCAA tournament, 2018 NCAA Tournament. Also 2000.
Should have gone to the 2016 NCAA Tournament when we were the highest rated RPI team ever to be left out and Oklahoma Joe screwed us to invite his buddies from Tulsa.

I get what you're trying to say: Programs like St. Bonaventure shouldn't be turning down NIT bids. And I agree. I just want to point out that "programs like St. Bonaventure" sounds backhanded, so my first reaction is defensive about how good this program is.

We know we're small and have "no business" being as good as we are. That's WHY we take the NIT seriously. Why we don't think it's beneath us, we'd love to be in the NIT.

That's why our fans are so mad we turned it down.

But on Saturday, we did not know we'd be invited, we did not know Seton Hall and St. John's would miss the NCAA (because we didn't know Oregon, NC State and UAB were about to win their conferences), and we did know we were 85th in the NET, had six healthy guys and probably wouldn't win an NIT game if we got to play one.

(03-23-2024 05:44 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Bonaventure's decision to inform the NIT they wouldn't participate was totally logistics, personnel and most importantly the NIT procedure.

Look at the list of schools that "declined" an NIT bid: Oregon State was 12-19 and #165 in the NET. Do you really think they "got invited but turned it down?" NO. It's preemptive. You're not extended an invite and get to accept or decline and they announce the bracket after people accept. You have to tell them "Sure, whatever you decide, we'll do." Or "don't include us."

Maybe because I talk us up so much you think we were among the top 68 at-large bids to the post season. We had a bad season. We were 85th in the NET, with eight P6 teams right behind us and our own conference's regular season co-champ behind us. (We were the 7 seed in the A-10, but fourth in NET).

We were looking at like 42nd in line for the NIT.

Yet the NIT took St. Joe's, who had a lower NET than St. Bonaventure AND lost to St. Bonaventure head-to-head. Admittedly, St. Bonaventure (my daughter's school) had a schizophrenic season, beating Loyola twice (including the conference tournament) and losing to George Washington and Saint Louis, the two worst teams in the conference (the latter at home.)

Quote:It's not "Arrogance" or whatever. It's the fact that "we're probably not making it, we have six healthy scholarship players, and we're 7 hours from home Saturday night and don't know if we should stay here or go home, and won't know if we made a great or terrible decision until it's way too late.

That's what the "concerned about COST" part is: In order to have legs for an NIT road game and not spend two straight days traveling 7+ hours each, we have to go home Saturday night or stay in NYC through Monday morning. And we don't know if staying in NYC is just pissing away tens of thousands of dollars because we missed the NIT.


It's simple game theory: 3 travel options, 3 NIT outcomes (At a Big East team, at someone else, not invited) = nine scenarios.
Five of them are bad for your competitive chances, and three of those are also more expensive.
One of them is great but more expensive.
One of them is a horrific waste of money
Two of them are the same as if you tell the NIT not to consider you.

If we're invited by the NIT on Saturday evening with "You're playing at either St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence or Villanova on Tuesday" while we're still in NYC, obviously we accept. If they won't give us any information, you're not gambling tens of thousands of dollars on that outcome.

What really hurt them IMHO was the fact that they were the only mid-major to opt out of the NIT, unless you consider Memphis a mid-major (and their overall history befits high major status better than St. Bonaventure's). Beyond their control, of course, but if Pitt had accepted an NIT bid, St. Bonaventure would have been the logical first round opponent. Of course, on Saturday it still looked like Pitt might make the NCAA tournament.

(03-25-2024 01:57 PM)tf8693 Wrote:  Yet the NIT took St. Joe's, who had a lower NET than St. Bonaventure AND lost to St. Bonaventure head-to-head. Admittedly, St. Bonaventure (my daughter's school) had a schizophrenic season, beating Loyola twice (including the conference tournament) and losing to George Washington and Saint Louis, the two worst teams in the conference (the latter at home.)


What really hurt them IMHO was the fact that they were the only mid-major to opt out of the NIT, unless you consider Memphis a mid-major (and their overall history befits high major status better than St. Bonaventure's). Beyond their control, of course, but if Pitt had accepted an NIT bid, St. Bonaventure would have been the logical first round opponent. Of course, on Saturday it still looked like Pitt might make the NCAA tournament.

Yeah, I mean it's obvious that the St. Joe's slot would probably have gone to us had we not opted out. The ideal situation for the Bonnies would have been "Stay in NYC Saturday night through Wednesday morning, be well rested to take on Seton Hall." (And schmooze their AD).

But you can't possibly know that's how it plays out on Saturday at 7 pm when you have to decide where your team bus is going.

The other factor is WE don't know who knew each other were opting out. If we knew Syracuse and Pitt were opting out, and we all expected St. John's and Seton Hall to make the NCAA (again, Saturday at 7 pm)... the our decision makes A LOT more sense.


I think what our AD very poorly articulated (because it's difficult) is that being on that graphic with 16 other P6 schools doesn't actually hurt.

I bet more people knew we were a "postseason team" from that graphic and the AD story and this thread than from our results on the court and if we'd actually been in the NIT bracket.

St Bona should have just driven home after the A10 tourney on Saturday and waited to see where they were placed. This is what the other teams did.

President realeased a statement, apologized to students, alumni & boosters.

said it will never happen again