The article here notes the AD resigned after unilaterally declining an NIT bid, which he apparently did because of costs and the transfer portal. Interesting to me that a school in the basketball crazy A-10 would be that concerned about costs (maybe they weren’t and that’s why the AD had to go?), but the portal issue and the potential for kids leaving for bigger schools seems realignment related IMHO.

If he has done a good job that seems like a silly reason to fire him

More like a don't do that again

(03-23-2024 01:29 PM)IWantToTalkToRalphSampson Wrote:  The article here notes the AD resigned after unilaterally declining an NIT bid, which he apparently did because of costs and the transfer portal. Interesting to me that a school in the basketball crazy A-10 would be that concerned about costs (maybe they weren’t and that’s why the AD had to go?), but the portal issue and the potential for kids leaving for bigger schools seems realignment related IMHO.

Not sure the A-10 is "basketball crazy" given some of the schools' attendance figures.

no wonder he turned it down, he came from Duke

(03-23-2024 01:29 PM)IWantToTalkToRalphSampson Wrote:  The article here notes the AD resigned after unilaterally declining an NIT bid, which he apparently did because of costs and the transfer portal. Interesting to me that a school in the basketball crazy A-10 would be that concerned about costs (maybe they weren’t and that’s why the AD had to go?), but the portal issue and the potential for kids leaving for bigger schools seems realignment related IMHO.

(03-23-2024 03:07 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  no wonder he turned it down, he came from Duke

I was going to say the exact thing. These elite snobs don’t know or care about anything except the elite.

If you are the head coach and your AD stabs you and your program in the back like that, I’d be keeping the old resume updated. And if I was a player there and wasn’t in the portal already, I’d be in now for sure.

What an arrogant POS. He’s a “fundraising” expert supposedly. Fine. But does he have any idea what he’s raising these funds for? The players and fans don’t seem to be in his equation.

If having a successful enough season that you get invited to the NIT and that isn’t worth the money it costs to participate to you, you shouldn’t be working with college athletes. You’ve got your priorities screwed up.

The University, the athletics/athletes, and alums aren’t there to serve the current administration. You are there to serve THEM. He’s got it backwards.

I don’t know that I’d get all that worked up about this normally. It’s akin to a good football program declining a minor bowl invite bc it costs too much to attend, and you’d rather spend that time recruiting and fundraising. The AD’s mistake was not consulting others and believing that a program with 5 NCAAT trips in the last 50 years should decline the NIT.

It's extremely flattering you guys all think we were invited to the NIT, but that's just not how it works.

The article is grossly misleading. There were rumors that he was looking for new career opportunities and this was more "Yeah, I'm not staying here" than the primary reason for his resignation. He was never a good fit. He's a fundraiser/capital projects guy, which sounds good because we need better facilities and more money; but he was more of an "internal fundraiser" from alums, and not an "outreach guy" growing the brand. We need THAT more because our alums are already all in and giving all they can. There's just not a lot of us since we have like 40,000 living alumni total.

ESPN is just slamming everyone who turned down the NIT because it's their property.

Bonaventure's decision to inform the NIT they wouldn't participate was totally logistics, personnel and most importantly the NIT procedure.

Look at the list of schools that "declined" an NIT bid: Oregon State was 12-19 and #165 in the NET. Do you really think they "got invited but turned it down?" NO. It's preemptive. You're not extended an invite and get to accept or decline and they announce the bracket after people accept. You have to tell them "Sure, whatever you decide, we'll do." Or "don't include us."

Maybe because I talk us up so much you think we were among the top 68 at-large bids to the post season. We had a bad season. We were 85th in the NET, with eight P6 teams right behind us and our own conference's regular season co-champ behind us. (We were the 7 seed in the A-10, but fourth in NET).

We were looking at like 42nd in line for the NIT.

It's not "Arrogance" or whatever. It's the fact that "we're probably not making it, we have six healthy scholarship players, and we're 7 hours from home Saturday night and don't know if we should stay here or go home, and won't know if we made a great or terrible decision until it's way too late.

That's what the "concerned about COST" part is: In order to have legs for an NIT road game and not spend two straight days traveling 7+ hours each, we have to go home Saturday night or stay in NYC through Monday morning. And we don't know if staying in NYC is just pissing away tens of thousands of dollars because we missed the NIT.


It's simple game theory: 3 travel options, 3 NIT outcomes (At a Big East team, at someone else, not invited) = nine scenarios.
Five of them are bad for your competitive chances, and three of those are also more expensive.
One of them is great but more expensive.
One of them is a horrific waste of money
Two of them are the same as if you tell the NIT not to consider you.

If we're invited by the NIT on Saturday evening with "You're playing at either St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence or Villanova on Tuesday" while we're still in NYC, obviously we accept. If they won't give us any information, you're not gambling tens of thousands of dollars on that outcome.

(03-23-2024 05:27 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  ESPN is just slamming everyone who turned down the NIT because it's their property.

Yup.

And, fwiw, having watched NIT games in the past, it gets annoying hearing the commentary about how a program seems to always be compared to the blue-bloods or top of the conference. Like, for Bonaventure, do you want to hear about Syracuse or Big East schools during a telecast? Do you want to hear about how the season may not have gone the direction you wanted? Do you want to hear about how hard next season might be, or, god forbid, if you have a potential “hot commodity” coach, how likely he’s going to dump this program to join a major one? To a point where the basketball game is just background noise. Any “enthusiam” is phoned in? That’s what these programs should be doing for ESPN, students, and viewers?

I hope next year is even worse for this tournament. I love it that teams sat out. It’s a meaningless event now more than ever.

(03-23-2024 06:29 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-23-2024 05:27 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  ESPN is just slamming everyone who turned down the NIT because it's their property.

Yup.

And, fwiw, having watched NIT games in the past, it gets annoying hearing the commentary about how a program seems to always be compared to the blue-bloods or top of the conference. Like, for Bonaventure, do you want to hear about Syracuse or Big East schools during a telecast?

I hope next year is even worse for this tournament. I love it that teams sat out. It’s a meaningless event now more than ever.

Well, that's absolutely been the most annoying thing about ESPN as a broadcaster forever. I watch a ton of the non-P6 Championship Week coverage and they just bring up the SEC and ACC brackets on the screen during other conference tournaments ALL THE TIME, with no context, no transition, just interrupting the game they're doing. And it's to the point where you can HEAR the confusion/obligation in the voices of the announcers. They might as well just say "And my producer is informing me that we are contractually obligated to pimp the SEC for the next 15 seconds." It's like station identification at this point.


But the two issues with the NIT are:
#1 - Why is the portal opening after Selection Sunday and not AFTER THE POSTSEASON (like free agency in every pro sports league?!?!). The whole point of the NIT is for development, to set the stage for next season for teams who are expecting to be "a year older and better" next year. Which is just gone in the NIL era.

#2 - Treating the selection of the NIT field like the NCAA selection show.

Back like 20 years ago, they had a list of teams they wanted to include, TALKED with schools about options and arenas/hosting, and while they didn't tell you exactly what was going on (and it was often confusing/weird), you'd know like three places you could go. They actually used to release the NIT bracket like midway through the second round!

And that drastically changes if we're jerks for declining or not.

(03-23-2024 05:27 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  It's extremely flattering you guys all think we were invited to the NIT, but that's just not how it works.

The article is grossly misleading. There were rumors that he was looking for new career opportunities and this was more "Yeah, I'm not staying here" than the primary reason for his resignation. He was never a good fit. He's a fundraiser/capital projects guy, which sounds good because we need better facilities and more money; but he was more of an "internal fundraiser" from alums, and not an "outreach guy" growing the brand. We need THAT more because our alums are already all in and giving all they can. There's just not a lot of us since we have like 40,000 living alumni total.

ESPN is just slamming everyone who turned down the NIT because it's their property.

So myself and others are clear- did he turn down an actual offer or preemptively decline a potential offer?

And if he preemptively decline an NIT bid, is it simply to save face that they couldn’t even get in the NIT, or was there a real reason besides money involved?

It seems pretty bizarre for a school that spends millions upon millions of dollars flying teams all over the country to compete to plead poverty when they have enough success to move on.

Or if not pleading poverty, doing the math and deciding the kids aren’t worth it. With that said, what exactly are athletics fund raisers raising this money for in their minds? STRICTLY capital projects? And if so, capital projects that are intended to lead to what precisely? A chance at some season successes perhaps? Or just as a monument and edifice to the fund raisers themselves perhaps?

There is also some uncertainty about Syracuse and if they were actually offered a bid or not.
Is this a "You can't fire me , I quit" scenario?

(03-23-2024 07:27 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(03-23-2024 05:27 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  It's extremely flattering you guys all think we were invited to the NIT, but that's just not how it works.

The article is grossly misleading. There were rumors that he was looking for new career opportunities and this was more "Yeah, I'm not staying here" than the primary reason for his resignation. He was never a good fit. He's a fundraiser/capital projects guy, which sounds good because we need better facilities and more money; but he was more of an "internal fundraiser" from alums, and not an "outreach guy" growing the brand. We need THAT more because our alums are already all in and giving all they can. There's just not a lot of us since we have like 40,000 living alumni total.

ESPN is just slamming everyone who turned down the NIT because it's their property.

So myself and others are clear- did he turn down an actual offer or preemptively decline a potential offer?

And if he preemptively decline an NIT bid, is it simply to save face that they couldn’t even get in the NIT, or was there a real reason besides money involved?

It seems pretty bizarre for a school that spends millions upon millions of dollars flying teams all over the country to compete to plead poverty when they have enough success to move on.

Or if not pleading poverty, doing the math and deciding the kids aren’t worth it. With that said, what exactly are athletics fund raisers raising this money for in their minds? STRICTLY capital projects? And if so, capital projects that are intended to lead to what precisely? A chance at some season successes perhaps? Or just as a monument and edifice to the fund raisers themselves perhaps?

Definitely feels like there's more to this story.

I wasn’t aware you had to pay your own bills in the NIT.

(03-23-2024 08:29 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  I wasn’t aware you had to pay your own bills in the NIT.

I don’t know myself, by post 8 in this thread mentioned cost a lot, so that’s what I based my statements on.

It doesn’t seem like you’d have to since it’s an NCAA event.

(03-23-2024 05:44 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Bonaventure's decision to inform the NIT they wouldn't participate was totally logistics, personnel and most importantly the NIT procedure.

Look at the list of schools that "declined" an NIT bid: Oregon State was 12-19 and #165 in the NET. Do you really think they "got invited but turned it down?" NO. It's preemptive. You're not extended an invite and get to accept or decline and they announce the bracket after people accept. You have to tell them "Sure, whatever you decide, we'll do." Or "don't include us."

Maybe because I talk us up so much you think we were among the top 68 at-large bids to the post season. We had a bad season. We were 85th in the NET, with eight P6 teams right behind us and our own conference's regular season co-champ behind us. (We were the 7 seed in the A-10, but fourth in NET).

We were looking at like 42nd in line for the NIT.

It's not "Arrogance" or whatever. It's the fact that "we're probably not making it, we have six healthy scholarship players, and we're 7 hours from home Saturday night and don't know if we should stay here or go home, and won't know if we made a great or terrible decision until it's way too late.

That's what the "concerned about COST" part is: In order to have legs for an NIT road game and not spend two straight days traveling 7+ hours each, we have to go home Saturday night or stay in NYC through Monday morning. And we don't know if staying in NYC is just pissing away tens of thousands of dollars because we missed the NIT.


It's simple game theory: 3 travel options, 3 NIT outcomes (At a Big East team, at someone else, not invited) = nine scenarios.
Five of them are bad for your competitive chances, and three of those are also more expensive.
One of them is great but more expensive.
One of them is a horrific waste of money
Two of them are the same as if you tell the NIT not to consider you.

If we're invited by the NIT on Saturday evening with "You're playing at either St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence or Villanova on Tuesday" while we're still in NYC, obviously we accept. If they won't give us any information, you're not gambling tens of thousands of dollars on that outcome.

The NIT now gives each power conferences two bids. Utah is the only PAC 12 team in the NIT, so presumably they did invite every PAC 12 team, including Oregon State.

(03-23-2024 06:29 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-23-2024 05:27 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  ESPN is just slamming everyone who turned down the NIT because it's their property.

Yup.

And, fwiw, having watched NIT games in the past, it gets annoying hearing the commentary about how a program seems to always be compared to the blue-bloods or top of the conference. Like, for Bonaventure, do you want to hear about Syracuse or Big East schools during a telecast? Do you want to hear about how the season may not have gone the direction you wanted? Do you want to hear about how hard next season might be, or, god forbid, if you have a potential “hot commodity” coach, how likely he’s going to dump this program to join a major one? To a point where the basketball game is just background noise. Any “enthusiam” is phoned in? That’s what these programs should be doing for ESPN, students, and viewers?

I hope next year is even worse for this tournament. I love it that teams sat out. It’s a meaningless event now more than ever.

If they want to keep the NIT a going concern, for one thing they could or possibly should return to their previous policy of only inviting teams, regardless of conference, that are at least .500 or better. Oregon State, UCLA, Southern California, and Stanford would have automatically been excluded, saved their athletics departments from having to put out a press release, and all around saved on a degree of drama.

For a lot of teams even in the Power Conferences, if you're borderline .500 at the end of the regular season and pretty much need to win your conference tournament or at least make it to the championship game to even get a #16 seed First Four spot, maybe encourage them to announce earlier if they'll take an NIT bid if they can't or don't make the NCAA. If they're gonna do it after conference tournaments are over anyway, get it over and out of the way sooner and allow coaches, players, and fans to move on a week or so sooner.

Or instead of inviting bottom of the barrel Power conference teams that had higher expectations and may just want to move on and consider the NIT beneath them or a waste of time, offer 2 or 3 more spots to mid major programs, or return to the policy of inviting mid major regular season champs that don't win their conference tournaments. If the NIT is truly that irrelevant, what's the difference between the #2 Southern Conference or Sun Belt team as opposed to a #10 or #11 SEC or ACC team that might be more of the mindset to just call it a season and focus on next season, retirement, post college stuff for players that can't or aren't going pro, whatever.

Had I been on the NIT selection committee, I would have much preferred a 20-13 St. Bonaventure squad over a 16-17 Xavier.

As for the Bonnies themselves, they recently went 1 and done in the 2021 NCAA Tournament, won 3 games in the 2022 NIT, then, proceeded to go 14-18 in the 2022-23 season. St. Bonaventure isn't Duke, UNC, Kentucky, or UCLA. After a loosing season in 2023, an NIT bid this year after having 6 more wins and 5 fewer losses then the previous season would have definitely been a step up after a year of nothing.

It’s funny that P6 schools declined the NIT after they went to the trouble of reserving spots for them.

Let’s be honest. Nobody cares about the NIT except for the participants. If somehow we had a Duke-UNC final that might get some attention but not much. If they expand the NCAA to 80 that’s another 12 teams scraped off the top of the heap, which will further decrease the NIT’s appeal. Let’s at least restore the autobids for regular season champs of one bid leagues. At least reward them with something.

Well, the power conferences have opined what they wanted: more NCAAT bids. Not NIT. This was a concession, but not what was requested. Now, we get to see the entitlement flushed out when these power conferences all turn down these invitations. And I know that's a bit of a cheap shot given the portal, end-of-season operations with coaching searches, and other administrative functions, but, this season has been one for folks (especially critics) to spotlight.

(03-23-2024 07:27 PM)Todor Wrote:  So myself and others are clear- did he turn down an actual offer or preemptively decline a potential offer?

This is my point: No actual offers are made** It's just like the NCAA Selection Show: You will find out at the announcement if you're in or not; but if you tell them to NOT consider you, then you won't be in it.

** They MIGHT go through the list with auto-bids for the P6, since this is the first year they've done that, and why else would Oregon St be on the list as TDenverFan points out.

(03-23-2024 07:27 PM)Todor Wrote:  And if he preemptively decline an NIT bid, is it simply to save face that they couldn’t even get in the NIT, or was there a real reason besides money involved?

That's been explained, kinda. #1 - Portal/Injuries. 3 kids were out, including both posts. That's six healthy scholarship guys. Are you going to win?

#2 - logistics and cost. The cost isn't the NIT, it's BETWEEN the A-10 tournament and the NIT that you're doing a cost-benefit analysis on.

(03-23-2024 07:27 PM)Todor Wrote:  It seems pretty bizarre for a school that spends millions upon millions of dollars flying teams all over the country to compete to plead poverty when they have enough success to move on.

Or if not pleading poverty, doing the math and deciding the kids aren’t worth it. With that said, what exactly are athletics fund raisers raising this money for in their minds? STRICTLY capital projects? And if so, capital projects that are intended to lead to what precisely? A chance at some season successes perhaps? Or just as a monument and edifice to the fund raisers themselves perhaps?

These are valid points, but I think we're all looking at this backward from hindsight.

It's 7 pm on Saturday, we're 7 hours from home, 85 in the NET, 40th in line for the 32-bid NIT.
We don't know the NCAA field either. Seton Hall and St. John's hadn't been left out yet! NC State and Oregon hadn't gotten NCAA bids yet.
We know we have six healthy scholarship guys and four guys are in the last year of eligibility.

There's three travel options: (1) Bus home Saturday, (2) bus home Sunday, (3) Bus Home Monday. Each extra day is like $15 grand.
There's three NIT outcomes: (A) Play road at a Big East team, (B) play road at somewhere else, © or not be invited.

That creates 9 scenarios:

1A = two trips in 3 days, no legs, no cost but you're not gonna win. That's bad.
1B = two trips in 2 days, worse legs, extra cost and you're not going to win. Really bad.
1C = GREAT! Costs you $30k but you have the legs to try and beat a Big East team.

2A = two trips in 3 days, not good on legs. You're not going to win. That's bad
2B = two trips in 2 days, horrible on legs, you're not going to win. That's bad.
2C = one trip, good on legs. but costs $30k.

3A = Travel doesn't matter, no cost.
3B = Travel doesn't matter, you spent $15k for nothing
3C = Travel doesn't matter, you spend $30k for nothing.


But you don't know which one will be the right choice until 9 pm Sunday night.

I think we made the right call. I understand fans are ticked, and I think the AD resigned because he wasn't a good fit, he knew it, and he just didn't have it in him to win the fans back after this.