But if they had been there then the B12 would have had more than ten members and Baylor's distribution would have been lower.

I took this of importance. "They left less than a week before FOX & ESPN presented a good deal to the Big 12."

I'm sure they don't want to make the same mistake again regarding athletic revenue not school affiliations in conferences from their last move from Big 12 to Pac 12-10.

We won't be getting a chart comparing to Missouri, A&M, & Nebraska any time soon.

(07-20-2023 11:20 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  But if they had been there then the B12 would have had more than ten members and Baylor's distribution would have been lower.

Possibly in the first couple years before FOX re-upped prior to 2012. After that it might have led to a bigger deal and more dollars. Either way staying would not have cost them nearly as much.

(07-20-2023 11:26 AM)Yedis Wrote:  Now show the chart that comparing Missouri, A&M, & Nebraska

Nebraska's long buy in with BTN and the COVID year might be even or negative vs Big 12 but long term will dwarf the B12. I'd have to see the numbers.

A&M and Mizzou are clearly out ahead.

Damn...almost a $70M differential, that's brutal.

If Colorado stays in the PAC and they sign a deal in the $20M-$25M range that gap will reach over $100M over the next 5 years.

What about the money from research collaborations and grants? That has to be factored in, no?

(07-20-2023 11:20 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  But if they had been there then the B12 would have had more than ten members and Baylor's distribution would have been lower.

If they'd been there then the OVERALL PIE in the big 12 would have been larger, likely by around the amount of the average big 12 payout. I'm not sure how this is difficult to grasp.

(07-20-2023 11:26 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(07-20-2023 11:20 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  But if they had been there then the B12 would have had more than ten members and Baylor's distribution would have been lower.

Possibly in the first couple years before FOX re-upped prior to 2012. After that it might have led to a bigger deal and more dollars. Either way staying would not have cost them nearly as much.

I'm not saying they would have had higher distributions, just that an adjustment would need to be made to find the true cost.

(07-20-2023 11:34 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  What about the money from research collaborations and grants? That has to be factored in, no?

That's another ball of wax to get at what's real and what's BS.

How much of increased grants was inflation?
How much was happening anyway?

Tying it down specifically to league affiliation is speculative at best.

(07-20-2023 11:26 AM)Yedis Wrote:  We won't be getting a chart comparing to Missouri, A&M, & Nebraska any time soon.

Actually, it took Nebraska about a decade, perhaps a bit longer, to make more than they would have made if they'd just stayed in the big 12. And have you bothered to look at SEC vs big 12 distributions? We were only about $7m ahead of the big 12 last year. The delta doesn't really get big until OUT join the SEC. Ironically, if A&M, Nebraska, Missouri and CU had never left, the big 12 would probably be making as much as any Conference these days, despite our unhappiness with each other. Though I'm really glad that we did all leave, the overall value of the 4 programs is roughly the same as it would have been, but A&M probably has a larger share than we would have as a middle of the pack/afterthought in the big 12.

(07-20-2023 11:26 AM)Yedis Wrote:  We won't be getting a chart comparing to Missouri, A&M, & Nebraska any time soon.

The moment one has a realistic chance of coming back there would be lol

Nebraska would be the only close one due to long term reduced B1G shares and COVID taking their revenue for 2020.

(07-20-2023 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(07-20-2023 11:26 AM)Yedis Wrote:  Now show the chart that comparing Missouri, A&M, & Nebraska

Nebraska's long buy in with BTN and the COVID year might be even or negative vs Big 12 but long term will dwarf the B12. I'd have to see the numbers.

A&M and Mizzou are clearly out ahead.

We're probably about as much ahead as CU is behind, or within spittin' distance of it.

(07-20-2023 11:34 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  What about the money from research collaborations and grants? That has to be factored in, no?

Why would it be? CU was already AAU before they joined the Pac, and the Pac has no overt organization like the BTAA(CIC). Last year, I did a deep dive on Utah's jump in research dollars since joining the Pac, it came to within a few % of the overall jump in total NSF research spending on a per-school basis. I'm not ready to do that for CU just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if their arc was similar. Ie, a big jump, but one that largely mirrors the overall jump in research spending nationwide, and one that's thus difficult to attribute to a new Athletic Conference affiliation.

(07-20-2023 11:45 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(07-20-2023 11:34 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  What about the money from research collaborations and grants? That has to be factored in, no?

Why would it be? CU was already AAU before they joined the Pac, and the Pac has no overt organization like the BTAA(CIC). Last year, I did a deep dive on Utah's jump in research dollars since joining the Pac, it came to within a few % of the overall jump in total NSF research spending on a per-school basis. I'm not ready to do that for CU just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if their arc was similar. Ie, a big jump, but one that largely mirrors the overall jump in research spending nationwide, and one that's thus difficult to attribute to a new Athletic Conference affiliation.

Link to your research on that?

This is what the U Colorado System has for research revenue numbers, broken down by campus. Stark difference from Big 12 timeframe to now, both in raw numbers and increases. If people want to align that with the national averages, or Big 12 averages of similar research revenue increases, that is an additional piece to reconcile and remove other factors. But as of now, there is a clear uptick since joining the Pac 12.

Perhaps if he has the numbers for the Big 12 schools (old members), you can take the increased average and see what the delta is for that compared to UC and perhaps that shows any affiliation differences.

(07-20-2023 11:54 AM)NegativeOptimist Wrote:  


This is what the U Colorado System has for research revenue numbers, broken down by campus. Stark difference from Big 12 timeframe to now, both in raw numbers and increases. If people want to align that with the national averages, or Big 12 averages of similar research revenue increases, that is an additional piece to reconcile and remove other factors. But as of now, there is a clear uptick since joining the Pac 12.

Perhaps if he has the numbers for the Big 12 schools (old members), you can take the increased average and see what the delta is for that compared to UC and perhaps that shows any affiliation differences.

1. The uptick started in 2009 while still a b12 member, then dropped in 2011 after CU left. The 2010 level wasn’t surpassed until 2017.
2. Was the Andchutz steady rise in research also from being in the pac12?

To be fair, the Longhorn Network was projected to be a death sentence for the Big 12.

Who knew the PAC Network would prove to be more detrimental.

If, say, Colorado remained in the XII but Missouri, Nebraska, and Texas A&M still left, I suspect the XII would still have only been a 10-school conference after solely adding TCU. If that happened, West Virginia would've joined the AAC as #11. PAC doesn't expand past 10.

XII: Baylor, Colorado, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech
AAC: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Houston, Memphis, Rutgers, SMU, South Florida, Temple, West Virginia

B1G expands to 14 with Maryland and Rutgers. ACC now has a different option to reload at 14: Connecticut or Louisville or West Virginia. I think they go with West Virginia. The ACC divisions are modified slightly for the Backyard Brawl. AAC expands to 12 with East Carolina, Tulane, and Tulsa. Navy and Wichita St never join the AAC. The ACC divisions are modified slightly.

ACC
Atlantic: Boston College, Clemson, Florida St, North Carolina St, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, West Virginia
Coastal: Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech

When Oklahoma/Texas join the SEC and UCLA/USC announce their joining the B1G, the PAC is desperate at 8 and add Utah and San Diego St for 10. The ACC adds Cincinnati and Louisville. The XII adds BYU, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, and Tulane for 14.

PAC: Arizona, Arizona St, California, Oregon, Oregon St, San Diego St, Stanford, Utah, Washington, Washington St

ACC
Atlantic: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia, Wake Forest
Eastern: Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

XIV
East: Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, TCU, Tulane
West: BYU, Colorado, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech

* I do think conferences would still go divisionless but that's not fun. *