A quick search indicates that SFA is indeed looking for a university system to join. Texas Tribune and other outlets are reporting this.

SFA is exploring this right now and might make a quick decision before the legislative session begins in January. Enrollment has been dropping at SFA the last several years and apparently there is a consensus among faculty that the university should join a system. They are now one of only two Texas public universities not in a system.

According to a presentation that the president gave the SFA regents (easy to find), four university systems are expressing an interest: UT, A&M, Texas State, and Texas Tech. Here is what I think:

UT System - probably working the least hard to get them. Likely expressing a modest interest in case SFA has a burning desire. The clean, parallel naming in the UT System would be a big problem. SFA will not give up their name (and nor should they). Culturally, not the tightest fit.

A&M System - would enthusiastically welcome SFA with open arms. A&M System forestry service might have some synergies with SFA's forestry program. Good cultural fit. SFA would be allowed to keep its name, similar to Tarleton keeping its name.

Texas State System - attractive if SFA wants a weak system that does not offer a lot of services to member institutions. Legislative clout of this system is not the best, but it is probably fine.

Texas Tech System - likely also wants them as much as A&M System. Good cultural fit. The Tech System is more legit since recently adding Angelo State and Midwestern University.

SFA has been stuck and facing enrollment issues for a few years. I wonder if any of the four systems have a plan to rekindle interest in enrollment. Were I SFA I would want to know the plan for growth since so many vibrant universities are growing, even in difficult times.

Their name and who their daddy means nothing to prospective students. Anyone who thinks a high school student makes a decision based on that, isn’t very smart.

(10-15-2022 08:01 PM)RCI Wrote:  SFA has been stuck and facing enrollment issues for a few years. I wonder if any of the four systems have a plan to rekindle interest in enrollment. Were I SFA I would want to know the plan for growth since so many vibrant universities are growing, even in difficult times.

Well, SFA should have its own growth plan, but a system might help them do it. Would be interesting to know what enticements systems might be offering or suggesting to win SFA. Certain resources could be directed to SFA.

One immediate advantage to joining a system with a strong office (which is all of them except the Texas State System) is that SFA could reduce some of its own administrative overhead. For instance, SFA could shed its own legal affairs office and let the system handle that. That's one example of a money-saver to SFA.

Accessing PUF funding is likely at the top of SFA’s wish list, which gives the UT and TAMU systems an advantage.

https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

(10-15-2022 08:28 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Their name and who their daddy means nothing to prospective students. Anyone who thinks a high school student makes a decision based on that, isn’t very smart.

Agree on daddy, but disagree on the name. The people I know who went to SFA were at least in part influenced by the "name", meaning whatever traditions and reputation are associated with it. Within Texas - and to be realistic that's their market - it's well known to high school students.

What they offer is the traditional, away from home, college town experience but at much lower cost than a private school. Some name like "University of Texas at Nacogdoches" sounds like a commuter branch campus.

(10-15-2022 07:28 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  A quick search indicates that SFA is indeed looking for a university system to join. Texas Tribune and other outlets are reporting this.

SFA is exploring this right now and might make a quick decision before the legislative session begins in January. Enrollment has been dropping at SFA the last several years and apparently there is a consensus among faculty that the university should join a system. They are now one of only two Texas public universities not in a system.

According to a presentation that the president gave the SFA regents (easy to find), four university systems are expressing an interest: UT, A&M, Texas State, and Texas Tech. Here is what I think:

UT System - probably working the least hard to get them. Likely expressing a modest interest in case SFA has a burning desire. The clean, parallel naming in the UT System would be a big problem. SFA will not give up their name (and nor should they). Culturally, not the tightest fit.

A&M System - would enthusiastically welcome SFA with open arms. A&M System forestry service might have some synergies with SFA's forestry program. Good cultural fit. SFA would be allowed to keep its name, similar to Tarleton keeping its name.

Texas State System - attractive if SFA wants a weak system that does not offer a lot of services to member institutions. Legislative clout of this system is not the best, but it is probably fine.

Texas Tech System - likely also wants them as much as A&M System. Good cultural fit. The Tech System is more legit since recently adding Angelo State and Midwestern University.

I think you're right on the UT System just being polite.

And if they did join, they'd need to worry about some vice chancellor who fancies himself a "thought leader of disruptive innovation" proposing to merge them with UT Tyler.

(10-15-2022 07:28 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  A quick search indicates that SFA is indeed looking for a university system to join. Texas Tribune and other outlets are reporting this.

SFA is exploring this right now and might make a quick decision before the legislative session begins in January. Enrollment has been dropping at SFA the last several years and apparently there is a consensus among faculty that the university should join a system. They are now one of only two Texas public universities not in a system.

According to a presentation that the president gave the SFA regents (easy to find), four university systems are expressing an interest: UT, A&M, Texas State, and Texas Tech. Here is what I think:

UT System - probably working the least hard to get them. Likely expressing a modest interest in case SFA has a burning desire. The clean, parallel naming in the UT System would be a big problem. SFA will not give up their name (and nor should they). Culturally, not the tightest fit.

A&M System - would enthusiastically welcome SFA with open arms. A&M System forestry service might have some synergies with SFA's forestry program. Good cultural fit. SFA would be allowed to keep its name, similar to Tarleton keeping its name.

Texas State System - attractive if SFA wants a weak system that does not offer a lot of services to member institutions. Legislative clout of this system is not the best, but it is probably fine.

Texas Tech System - likely also wants them as much as A&M System. Good cultural fit. The Tech System is more legit since recently adding Angelo State and Midwestern University.

The other thing to consider about the Texas State system is a lot of SFA’s peer schools historically are in that system: formerly Southwest Texas State, Sam Houston, Lamar are all there.

(10-16-2022 06:12 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  Accessing PUF funding is likely at the top of SFA’s wish list, which gives the UT and TAMU systems an advantage.

https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

So...the TSUS & TAMUS is SOL on PUF???

(10-17-2022 02:55 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-16-2022 06:12 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  Accessing PUF funding is likely at the top of SFA’s wish list, which gives the UT and TAMU systems an advantage.

https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

So...the TSUS & TAMUS is SOL on PUF???

UT and TAMU systems both have access to PUF funds. Not all schools in the system receive funding though. Don’t as me how that determination is made. I’m clueless.

(10-17-2022 05:39 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 02:55 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-16-2022 06:12 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  Accessing PUF funding is likely at the top of SFA’s wish list, which gives the UT and TAMU systems an advantage.

https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

So...the TSUS & TAMUS is SOL on PUF???

UT and TAMU systems both have access to PUF funds. Not all schools in the system receive funding though. Don’t as me how that determination is made. I’m clueless.

access to the PUF funds used to be reserved mostly for the tier one schools. tier one as far as texas universities goes depends on research dollars, number of phd's graduated per year and some other stuff. not to be confused with Carnegie tier one. ut/a&m/uta/tech/houston/utd/unt are tier one unless they have added any new ones in the last year or two.

I visited the Sawmill, SFA message board, and the vast majority of the posters preferred the UT system after reading the the presentations from the four systems. If this means anything.

(10-17-2022 08:55 AM)TexanFan Wrote:  I visited the Sawmill, SFA message board, and the vast majority of the posters preferred the UT system after reading the the presentations from the four systems. If this means anything.

seems like the U of H system would be good for them. In east texas and maybe give them a few degree programs they dont already have. plenty houston area kids probably go there.

(10-17-2022 08:43 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 05:39 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 02:55 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-16-2022 06:12 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  Accessing PUF funding is likely at the top of SFA’s wish list, which gives the UT and TAMU systems an advantage.

https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

So...the TSUS & TAMUS is SOL on PUF???

UT and TAMU systems both have access to PUF funds. Not all schools in the system receive funding though. Don’t as me how that determination is made. I’m clueless.

access to the PUF funds used to be reserved mostly for the tier one schools. tier one as far as texas universities goes depends on research dollars, number of phd's graduated per year and some other stuff. not to be confused with Carnegie tier one. ut/a&m/uta/tech/houston/utd/unt are tier one unless they have added any new ones in the last year or two.

I don’t claim any expertise here. I’m just going by the infographic in the link which shows that PUF funding is limited to UT and TAMU system schools, with the UT system (Which would include UTA) receiving more than TAMU. https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

Edit to add- I believe this is the funding source you referenced https://www.highered.texas.gov/instituti...und-nruf/. The NRUF and PUF are different pots of gold for the chosen few. Lol.

(10-17-2022 10:10 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 08:43 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 05:39 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 02:55 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(10-16-2022 06:12 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  Accessing PUF funding is likely at the top of SFA’s wish list, which gives the UT and TAMU systems an advantage.

https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

So...the TSUS & TAMUS is SOL on PUF???

UT and TAMU systems both have access to PUF funds. Not all schools in the system receive funding though. Don’t as me how that determination is made. I’m clueless.

access to the PUF funds used to be reserved mostly for the tier one schools. tier one as far as texas universities goes depends on research dollars, number of phd's graduated per year and some other stuff. not to be confused with Carnegie tier one. ut/a&m/uta/tech/houston/utd/unt are tier one unless they have added any new ones in the last year or two.

I don’t claim any expertise here. I’m just going by the infographic in the link which shows that PUF funding is limited to UT and TAMU system schools, with the UT system (Which would include UTA) receiving more than TAMU. https://www.utsystem.edu/puf

Edit to add- I believe this is the funding source you referenced https://www.highered.texas.gov/instituti...und-nruf/. The NRUF and PUF are different pots of gold for the chosen few. Lol.

yes the PUF money is for ut and a&m systems and not all schools in those systems get the money. they do all get normal budgeted amounts of money each year. PUF money is supposed to be extra. there is a story that in the early days of founding the state's college system, a&m wasnt interested in a share of the PUF fund because it was really just going to be revenue from hundreds of thousands of acres of land in west Texas. they didnt see the upside because this was before oil and gas so they reluctantly took a smaller share thinking "oh what the heck, might as well". could have probably had half. dont know the veracity of that tale but sounds likely to me. rice and the "church" schools have plenty of cash of their own.

I'll weigh in here. UT's proposal is my favorite but we have a regent or two who are gigantic Aggies. Like huge, kids can't go anywhere else but A&M, Aggies.

UT: Promised no name or school colors change. Offering PUF access, promise funds, & has put a dollar number(5.5 million per year) on raises for Faculty to bring them up to the system average, has promised a similar review for staff, & is promising access to the promise funds for tuition similar to what RGV has that gives kids whose families make under 125k free tuition. Wants to lean on SFA's forestry & ag expertise to build a strong sustainable food & forestry effort within the UT system.

Texas A&M: Not offering access to PUF funds. Compared SFA to A&M Commerce(ugh) & Tarleton(not terrible but they took forever to invest in Tarleton) and said we're in the Southland Conference. Said raises are a campus level decision. I've long been annoyed by A&M not investing in system schools and focusing solely on CState, but even I was suprised at the level of disinterest that seemed to go into the proposal. Almost treated it as a foregone conclusion bc of current SFA ties(Rellis Campus) and cultural fit.

Texas Tech: Nothing crazy stuck out to me here. I do like that the TTU system prez is a lumberjack. We'd get more individualized attention and Tech leaned heavily on their ability to use political power to boost the system & knowing rural schools. I was hoping for something a bit more substantial from them(TTU Health Science Center in Nac/etc).

Texas State System: Lol why is this a system? They should be alongside SFA asking to join one of the bigger systems.

About a decade ago, they polled the professors on which system they'd prefer to join, and Texas Tech won out.

However, I know that the committment to raises & student tuition funds will likely hold large sway. SFA profs make less than some Public K12 teachers starting salaries and UT just promised what's equivalent to a nearly 10k raise per teacher.

Also we'd be idiots not to take the UT option with the PUF Access. UH, UNT, TTU would kill for that level of access to the state's higher ed gold vault.

For those who don't know, the PUF(Permanent University Fund) is built upon over 2 million west texas acres and their subsequent oil & gas leasing rights money. Only the UT & A&M systems have access to it and not every school does (Commerce, Corpus, Kingsville, West Texas A&M don't off the top of my head). Currently has nearly 18 billion in assets. Last year it paid out 1.1 billion to the UT & A&M system schools.

Pretty good analysis, Tall.

I hurriedly read the four system responses to SFA's questions. All four promise to keep the SFA name, colors, etc. That is a no-brainer for any system making a serious offer, because SFA is NOT giving that up. Plus, you don't mess with Texas hero names.

I am guessing that SFA chooses A&M System or UT System.

1) Texas State System is VERY thin; they don't offer much. You go there if you need to join a system but want to be left alone. SFA is obviously looking for something. They want a system to help take them further. Texas State System can't do that so well compared to the others. In fact, Angelo State bolted that system for the Texas Tech System back in 2007.

2) Texas Tech System. I didn't see any special enticements to SFA, but it is a solid system.
They added Angelo State and Midwestern State in the recent past. These people are all West Texans, and deep East Texas SFA is in a different region, but still might feel a cultural affinity with West Texans.

3) UT System. Made some interesting promises. They were the only ones who talked specifics about getting SFA faculty salaries up to competitive levels, and they want to do it in the next couple of years. That kind of talk should sound VERY attractive to SFA faculty. They promised to make the SFA Forestry program the BEST in Texas. (A&M having another.) They promised at least a million a year in tuition assistance. Interesting promise to keep SFA's name, as SFA would be a name and color outlier in the system. Unlike the Tech System and especially the A&M System, UT is a system that is more than one colossal university and the rest being small and very regional. There is a mid-tier in the UT System composed of four large, emerging research universities who are R-1, and 3 of them are Texas Tier One. So, UT System can demonstrate a history and pattern of pouring a lot of money in places besides the one colossal university. In fact, UT wrote this in their proposal because they perceived it would be of particular interest to SFA. "Two of our institutions, UT Arlington and UT Dallas, are less than 30 miles apart, and the UT System Board of Regents has provided significant financial resosurces to each for new facilities, faculty recruitment and retention, student success and more. Today, they are both among Texas' fastest growing institutions in enrollment and research rankings."

4) A&M System. I was impressed with their answers. They really want SFA, and are promising to combine and/or move agency operations to SFA and/or Nacogdoches. (Uniquely, the A&M System has agencies, such as Ag Service, Forestry Service, whatnot.) I thought the writer of the A&M response was compelling. Tarleton was mentioned as an example of a member institution keeping its own historic name. On the downside, the A&M System has not put emphasis on campuses other than College Station (although Tarleton seems to be showing some activity only very recently). They are not in the business of elevating other campuses to heavy research status, unlike the UT System.

Side note. Whether a university (not named UT Austin or A&M College Station) is in PUF or not should not be the biggest deal. If you are not in PUF, the state is giving you HEF. It's just a matter of which pot your (mostly) building money comes from.

So, I am guessing A&M or UT for SFA, but I don't know what they key SFA decision makers are thinking or who is friends with whom in what system.

A&M has been courting SFA for years, while UT has been going all-in on UT-Tyler right down the road from Nac. All the other systems are late to the dinner table and really have nothing to offer that can remotely compare. SFA will be grandfathered into A&M PUF and become the Crown Jewel 2.0 of the A&M System. Just as it should be.

[quote='UTArlingtonMaverick' pid='18523355' dateline='1666145839'

Side note. Whether a university (not named UT Austin or A&M College Station) is in PUF or not should not be the biggest deal. If you are not in PUF, the state is giving you HEF. It's just a matter of which pot your (mostly) building money comes from.

So, I am guessing A&M or UT for SFA, but I don't know what they key SFA decision makers are thinking or who is friends with whom in what system.
[/quote]

Some very fair points. I do believe there's a pretty significant difference between PUF & HEF. Looking at distributions, if I'm checking it right, it appears to be approximately 787 million for 275k students in HEF distributions last year(2800 per student) vs 1.1 billion for 255k students(4300 per student).

On other points, I have heard the specific plan for faculty & staff raises is playing very well.

Think you nailed it on the UT investment in schools vs A&M(regardless of source of funds). UT really likes to invest in the whole system whenever possible. Hell Tyler is getting a medical school. Vs the A&M system seems fairly content to have the others remain regional universities in nearly every case. That's not necessarily a bad thing in every aspect, but it appears to be more neglect that strategy in the case of a lot of those schools.

I'm hoping UT as I think it'll be the biggest win, but A&M & Tech would also be a step up from where we are today. I just happen to think UT is a hop, skip, and jump forward with that proposal.