Oh, another "Alliance".

(09-23-2022 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You drop the dead weights:

East: UNC NCSU Duke/Miami UVa Clemson FSU VaTech GaTech
West: PAC 10 minus OSU/WSU (MWC)

Big 12 adds UL Pitt

WF Duke/Miami BC Cuse join AAC

I would think the Big 12 would add at least two of those 4 to get to 16.

Personally I’d say Duke and Cuse. Never going to be seen as an equal in football might as well make basketball the best.

(09-23-2022 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You drop the dead weights:
East: UNC NCSU Duke/Miami UVa Clemson FSU VaTech GaTech
West: PAC 10 minus OSU/WSU (MWC)

Big 12 adds UL Pitt
WF Duke/Miami BC Cuse join AAC

This is the content I'm paying for: Rutgers fans dismissing Duke and Miami 'dead weights.'

(09-23-2022 10:26 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Not surprising that UNC's first choice would be to maintain their fiefdom in the ACC in some fashion, as they basically run it with the aid of UVA and Duke. UNC, like Texas, prefers being the big fish in a small pond. But the powers that be in Chapel Hill aren't stupid and like Texas, they will eject if that pond continues to dry up and shrink compared to the big lakes stocked with massive predators in the B1G and SEC.

I makes sense, I guess, that Atlantic Coast 'fiefdoms' will soon be underwater.

(09-23-2022 10:51 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You drop the dead weights:

East: UNC NCSU Duke/Miami UVa Clemson FSU VaTech GaTech
West: PAC 10 minus OSU/WSU (MWC)

Big 12 adds UL Pitt

WF Duke/Miami BC Cuse join AAC

I would think the Big 12 would add at least two of those 4 to get to 16.

Personally I’d say Duke and Cuse. Never going to be seen as an equal in football might as well make basketball the best.

APAC forms as the below and adds Kansas solidifying itself as the top basketball conference.

APAC: Arizona, Arizona St, California, Clemson, Colorado, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Kansas, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Oregon, Stanford, Utah, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Washington
> No Divisions

XII loses Kansas but adds the remaining ACC schools and forms two very regional divisions.

XVI
East: Boston College, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Iowa St, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, TCU, Texas Tech

OSU/WSU find themselves in the MWC.

MWC
Mountain: Air Force, Boise St, Colorado St, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah St, Wyoming
West: Fresno St, Hawaii*, Oregon St, San Diego St, San Jose St, UNLV, Washington St
* Football-only

The Pacific Northwest teams will probably be trying to get into the Big 10 until June 30. I wouldn’t be surprised if they join the ACC if they don’t get into the Big 10.


Due to the ACC Grant of rights, I don’t think they’d join the ACC unless they’ve been 100% certainly turned down by the Big 10 though.

(09-23-2022 11:38 AM)Poster Wrote:  The Pacific Northwest teams will probably be trying to get into the Big 10 until June 30. I wouldn’t be surprised if they join the ACC if they don’t get into the Big 10.


Due to the ACC Grant of rights, I don’t think they’d join the ACC unless they’ve been 100% certainly turned down by the Big 10 though.

why wouldn't they just stay in the PAC given it seems the media deals are going to be comparable and they can save themselves the bad press in the ultra liberal PNW by flying all over the country.

If the 4 corners defects to B12, which i think is very unlikely, they can revisit.

This shows that the ACC/UNC has explored many different possibilities including forming a new league. I have said this many times but still the most likely outcome would be the ACC adding a few schools from the Pac without dropping any current members.

(09-23-2022 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You drop the dead weights:

East: UNC NCSU Duke/Miami UVa Clemson FSU VaTech GaTech
West: PAC 10 minus OSU/WSU (MWC)

Big 12 adds UL Pitt

WF Duke/Miami BC Cuse join AAC

Agree that Clemson and FSU are pretty big brands, but that conference isn't going to get the SEC/BIG money that warrants cross-country travel for all of your teams. Even if they could get half the rumored BIG value, are you sending lacrosse from Florida to Washington?

(09-23-2022 09:52 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Interesting that this would come from a school who everyone assumes is a lock for the SEC or B1G....

I get the angle you're coming from but uncertainty is scary, right?
UNC and others aren't looking to go anywhere unless they can get out of GOR and/or push comes to shove. They are comfortable now but want more cashish. Uncertainty fears:

1) Does UNC want to be with non-academic peers in SEC?
2) Will Basketball be able to compete in B10, football likely to never compete in SEC whereas ACC isn't as difficult?
3) UNC is a shot caller now, they lose all power if the go to B10

(09-23-2022 11:41 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 11:38 AM)Poster Wrote:  The Pacific Northwest teams will probably be trying to get into the Big 10 until June 30. I wouldn’t be surprised if they join the ACC if they don’t get into the Big 10.


Due to the ACC Grant of rights, I don’t think they’d join the ACC unless they’ve been 100% certainly turned down by the Big 10 though.

why wouldn't they just stay in the PAC given it seems the media deals are going to be comparable and they can save themselves the bad press in the ultra liberal PNW by flying all over the country.

If the 4 corners defects to B12, which i think is very unlikely, they can revisit.

I agree 100%, it's one thing to leave the PAC-12 for a LOT more money, but I don't see the advantage of leaving for even $10M or $20M more a year most of which would be taken up in increased travel expenses. With a 6+6 playoff the access is the same or better than what they would gain by leaving.

(09-23-2022 10:59 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  I makes sense, I guess, that Atlantic Coast 'fiefdoms' will soon be underwater.

(09-23-2022 10:40 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  WF Duke/Miami BC Cuse join AAC

Wake, Duke, and Syracuse could go independent in football and give the Big East a call for everything else.

BC can rot.

Yeah, I think you could be looking at something of a basketball Super League if Syracuse and Duke are left behind in football.

I doubt the Big East has the gall to actually kick DePaul out of the league, but a 12 team league that includes Duke, Syracuse, UConn, and Villanova would be pretty damn good.

Unfortunately I don't think it's in the realm of possibility -- Duke wouldn't want to be on an island five hours away from its closest conference foe, and Wake Forest doesn't add enough to justify getting that league up to 13.

As to your last point: Not only can BC rot; they are currently rotting.

The A&P Conference.

(09-23-2022 09:50 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 09:47 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Looks like there are confirmed discussions of an ACC pac12 merger. Most interesting there was discussion of trimming the fat...

https://www.si.com/college/2022/09/22/un...ealignment

Sounds like NC is more interested in increasing the ACC media payout than the idea of an SEC invite...

UNC wants to continue to be a big fish in a little pond, rather than being a small fish in a big lake. Tobacco Road runs the ACC and they like that role. Those schools aren't used to being second tier players in one of the P2. So UNC would rather make less in a future M or G-league that it controls, than make more, but be a role player in a big boy conference.

(09-23-2022 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You drop the dead weights:

East: UNC NCSU Duke/Miami UVa Clemson FSU VaTech GaTech
West: PAC 10 minus OSU/WSU (MWC)

Big 12 adds UL Pitt

WF Duke/Miami BC Cuse join AAC

Part of the ACC's problem is that it's very hard to decide if Pitt/Louisville are better than NCST and GT. I'm fairly certain that the big 12 would love that deal if offered though, WV in particular would be over the moon.

(09-23-2022 10:48 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 10:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Of course - it has to make more revenue. Maybe it adds value to the ACC Network... or maybe it doesn't.

Now, believe it or not with me saying this considering the debates on this forum lately, it's actually a situation where the "P3" vision of JRsec could come to fruition in some form. Granted, it would NOT be in the form of ACC schools moving anywhere, but rather the most valuable schools left in the Big 12 and Pac-12 joining the ACC. There aren't any significant legal restrictions on the ACC adding Big 12 and/or Pac-12 schools to the league (unlike the ACC GOR holding ACC schools back from defecting to the Big Ten or SEC) - it's truly all based on economics alone.
....

If we're going to see a merger at the next-tier level, this strikes me as one of the most likely ways it comes about. The ACC has resources the PAC and B12 schools can really use right now: profitable network, media exposure, and stable (for the next 12 years or so) membership. The presence of Notre Dame is helpful with all of these.

Now that we know more about the future design of the CFP, I suspect there will be less pressure now to achieve a merger at this 'P3' level. But we'll see. As you note, it all comes down to how the numbers look on spreadsheets in Charlotte.

I would have been shocked if the UNC AD and others had NOT been considering expansion. As far as the particulars, most likely they looked at what was available and decided that nobody moved the needle for them other than UO/UW, they reached out to them, and they were instantly rebuffed b/c the 14 year GoR was a non starter. There are a lot of good but not great schools in the M3, but only UNC/FSU/Clemson really move the needle and they're already in the ACC.

(09-23-2022 12:00 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 09:52 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Interesting that this would come from a school who everyone assumes is a lock for the SEC or B1G....

I get the angle you're coming from but uncertainty is scary, right?
UNC and others aren't looking to go anywhere unless they can get out of GOR and/or push comes to shove. They are comfortable now but want more cashish. Uncertainty fears:

1) Does UNC want to be with non-academic peers in SEC?
2) Will Basketball be able to compete in B10, football likely to never compete in SEC whereas ACC isn't as difficult?
3) UNC is a shot caller now, they lose all power if the go to B10

1. hard NO, this one is tough to overcome, though recent additions of MO/A&M/texas make it a whole lot more palatable academically
2. Surely you can't be serious regarding basketball? ACC>B1G or SEC in basketball. Football isn't competing now, doesn't really matter if they start losing to bama or tOSU instead of Wake and BC I suppose.
3. They become a Big Fish in a pond full of Big Fish if they move, which is what UNL/A&M/OU/USCLA/texas have all done in the past decade or so. With the near-inevitable departures of FSU/Clemson post-GoR, UNC would marginalizing their Athletics revenue if they remain in the ACC. Not impossible to imagine, but seems like they'll end up biting the bullet and joining one of the P2.

(09-23-2022 12:04 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 11:41 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-23-2022 11:38 AM)Poster Wrote:  The Pacific Northwest teams will probably be trying to get into the Big 10 until June 30. I wouldn’t be surprised if they join the ACC if they don’t get into the Big 10.


Due to the ACC Grant of rights, I don’t think they’d join the ACC unless they’ve been 100% certainly turned down by the Big 10 though.

why wouldn't they just stay in the PAC given it seems the media deals are going to be comparable and they can save themselves the bad press in the ultra liberal PNW by flying all over the country.

If the 4 corners defects to B12, which i think is very unlikely, they can revisit.

I agree 100%, it's one thing to leave the PAC-12 for a LOT more money, but I don't see the advantage of leaving for even $10M or $20M more a year most of which would be taken up in increased travel expenses. With a 6+6 playoff the access is the same or better than what they would gain by leaving.

You've been reading too many Kliavkoff letters. He claims that UCLA will jump from ~ $8m to ~ $24m in athletic travel expenses, completely ignoring the fact that they're already flying to most Pac destinations and many of the B1G destinations might actually end up being cheaper flights. I mentioned $16m the other day as a top end number, but realistically I think that something more like $12m is what they'll end up with. Now, I'm not looking to hop to the ACC to make an extra $10m a year if I'm spending a huge %, perhaps almost all of it on travel, but for $20m it would be hard to pass up. All else being equal ofc.

But the GOR!!!

The GOR and current deal is a card for ESPN to play.

ESPN could move ACC schools to BIG in exchange for retain ND position and getting a BIG spot. Likely in conjunction with a couple more PAC schools. ND isn’t independent if ESPN, NBC, Fox etc don’t want it to be.


Imo to save the “ACC” it will take 4+ ACC schools getting moved to P2, and the rest leveraging the GOR to get built into 3rd conference. Say, 4 ACC schools to SEC and then 4 PAC plus 10 Big 12. If the leftovers don’t push for this quickly, it will be them moving.